latest on hydraulic winches for the *80*?

[e9999]

Ok Eric this is what I got for you. My wife got home from work and wasn't all that keen on doing it but she did so multiple lap times were out of the question.

I had her in her 96 4Runner down hill and at the full 100ft cable length away. In high which is the 6000lbs rating it pulled the truck up that hill in 3.5 minutes. I did get the hand throttle installed this morning and had the engine rpm at 1500. A few shorter test pulls showed that with the truck at idle, the time for a full length pull would be quite a bit more.

I have an auxiliary cooler on my system and the higher rpms also got more air flowing through it as well.

Obviously this isn't much of a strength test but there was no noises that I'd associate to a straining pump during the pull.

All in all I'm pleased with my setup so far and would advise a cooler and hand throttle for anyone who goes this route.

thanks for measuring this. say thanks to your wife on behalf of MUD. Next time, though, you may want to just tie your rig to a tree and do it by yourself, more marital peace....

Interesting. Avg speed at 3.5gpm and 1500psi over the 4 wraps is about 40fpm in high gear per the MM specs. (High gear is rated at 2000lbs.) You got about 29fpm at 1500rpm. That's not so bad, about 25% less than max. Consistent with the figures proposed for the reduced pressure. But then again, you could have run it at higher rpm. That's encouraging, it's not a ridiculously low speed by any means.
Now, not so sure how to extrapolate that to the low gear settings for a speed estimate...

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I think all this talk about slow is immaterial. Afterall, recovering a stuck Land Cruiser often takes at least 30 minutes anyway, so an extra 5 minutes for a slow hydraulic winch is not important. The biggest time eater is the rigging, and any digging and jacking that needs to be done first.

The other point to make, is that the average winch pull is often just a few feet, or over 1 big rock pile, or out of one hole. While there are scenerios where you might need to pull a dead rig up a long grade, that is very rare. So ask yourself, the last time you used a winch, how important was the speed of the pull?

I have seen a hydraulic winch used one time for trail recovery (on Dusy Ershim) , and while the pull was slow, we were still done in just a few minutes. Where high winch speed is nice, is rewinding a spooled out cable, or powering out the cable like you might do on an 8274. That winch is smoking fast on power out-it almost isn't worth operating the winch clutch to spool out manually.

The real downside of a hydraulic winch that I see is the complexity of the install, especially for someone with less mechanical skill than LandTank. An electric can be mouted and installed in a couple of hours, then work flawlessly for years, with no modification to the truck itself. By it's nature, the hydraulic requires a moderately complex install, and introduces more more connections into an already complex system.

Rick-congrats on a nice install.

 

[alia176]

I think all this talk about slow is immaterial. Afterall, recovering a stuck Land Cruiser often takes at least 30 minutes anyway, so an extra 5 minutes for a slow hydraulic winch is not important. .

For the self recovery, speed is irrelevant as you say. Given the choice between a slow work horse vs no horse, I'd pick the former! However, in a group situation when your winch is acting as the tug boat then speed will be an issue. Usually in these cases, the tug is long and hard; otherwise, everyone would be able to drive up on it w/o assistance!

I'll bet a dozen donuts that if the group has an electic winch, it'll be the favorite for doing tug boat work over a MM.

This is just my opinion of course, YMMV!

Ali

 

[landtank]

I personally wouldn't want to be the designated tugboat if I had an electric winch.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I'll bet a dozen donuts that if the group has an electic winch, it'll be the favorite for doing tug boat work over a MM.

Ali

I have seen this done. Every year at Sierra Trek, there are 5 winch hills on the trophy run of the weekend (Fordyce Creek). You get 2 shots at each and if you fail, they hook you onto the winch. The one time I saw this amazing disply of massed winching, it was 8274s doing all the work. They are the fastest winch hands down, but that is a very unique situation, since HUNDREDS of Jeeps need to be winched up and out of that trail over two days.

When I was there, I hiked in with my son, just to watch that hillside carnage. For many participants, two tries was one too many. There must have been 3000 intoxicated Jeepers watching the show which was very entertaining as well.

 

[sandcruiser]

bad rational...

By that rational... you should only buy a hand-winch. Because there are plenty of times when an electric is equally handicapped as a hydraulic, like under water.
Or what happens when you right the vehicle but don't have enough juice left over to start it?

I'm not arguing in favor of hydraulic per se, but electric aren't perfect either.

What about some sort of 12v hydraulic pump that can act as a booster for the PS pump and/or run for a brief while if the motor can't be running? Does such a beast exist?

edit: just checked online and there are 12v hydro pumps, but they are spendy! http://shop.sailnet.com/product_info.php/products_id/1491 about $650 and i"m not sure it is the right thing for the job anyway.

Having used a winch to self right my 4r after a hard right side flop I won't buy anything but electrics. If I would have needed the engine it would have been ruined and I would have been walking.

Not to your specific question, but's it's worth considering.

 

[e9999]

well, if the OEM PS pump is sufficient, as I'm trying to ascertain here, and assuming that the MM adapter kit works on the LC (yes according to Rick, no/maybe not according to MM), the installation should be pretty easy. Just a couple of connections and a bit of PS fluid draining and refilling. If anything way easier than a 2 batteries setup and as easy as an electric winch with 1 battery.
Now, of course, if you need extra cooler and all, that's a different story....

 

[landtank]

You don't need the extra cooler, but when building up a truck it has been advised to have a cooler on your PS system anyway as the factory one isn't addiquate when running slow and turning large tires. So I killed 2 birds with one stone when I added it.

The basic install is really pretty easy, especially since you know the correct length of hose to have on hand and how to run them.

 

[alia176]

Nothing is really easy or plug and play when it comes to these things! That's the truth.

For a hyd setup, you may want to make your own custom hoses with the proper lengths and elbows. The hoses need to be protected from chafing and all connections need to be leak free. You'll also want to increase the fluid capacity as much as possible in order to keep the temps down.

For electrical, you'll want to find heavy duty welding gauge cables with heavy duty lugs. The battery should be one with higher RC and CCA.

In both cases, you'll be making trips to specialzed shops for supplies and labor.

That's why this is a dead horse debate!

Ali

 

[Nay]

Which one is smaller, and can be tucked farther up with a custom bumper, thus reducing the necessity for a winch in the first place?

Presuming that both function within the norms of your average 80 series use, the largest issues with winches is the clearance loss and added weight. If you can create a clearance and/or weight advantage with either one, then the remainder of the work is justified, IMO.

I've always said that the best winches in the world are those your wheeling friends install...but that approach will probably take a nice size bite out of my a$$ one day.

Nay

 

[Cruiserdrew]

the installation should be pretty easy. Just a couple of connections and a bit of PS fluid draining and refilling.

Ok, Eric-I double dog dare YOU to do this install. I'm certain anyone with a bit of experience and familiarity could do the install, but it's hardly plug and play. As Ali says, nothing is as simple as it should be on these trucks. I'm curious how many similar installations you have done and used in the real world.

Please notice, I am not debating hydraulic vs. electric. They are both good when the alternative is no winch. There are advantages and disadvantages of each. I am simply pointing out that anyone (even you) can do an electric winch install. The hydraulic would take much more forthought and planning.

 

[landtank]

the basic HYD winch install goes like this

1. remove OEM high pressure line from PS pump to gearbox

2. mount winch

3. connect supplied high pressure line from PS pump to winch

4. connect supplied high pressure line from winch to gearbox

5. run low amp 12v line to control box

6. add fluid and purge air


I've done all the forthought and planning and laid out that in my other thread. The added cooler is like a second battery option on the electrics, not needed but nice to have.


And I'm just arguing the ease of install here, I don't think it's any more difficult, it's just different and depending on your experience with either type of work it may or may not be easier for you..

 

[AllenTenT]

I did add an auxilary cooler to my PS system as insurance. If I find that the PS pump is not up to the job I'll then add another pump just for the winch. My first choice would be to place it where the current SC goes so that adding another pulley to the crank has already been figured out.

Landtank
Can you give me more info on this cooler, I think I should do this, not sure where I would mount it though I have a BIG intercooler in front of the radiator

Tks

 

[sandcruiser]

seems like any cooler will help radiate some of the heat, and it'll definately add some volume to the circuit, which can only help keep temps lower. if you don't have room up front to mount it, maybe make a bracket on a frame rail or something and add in a muffin fan (computer type)?

 

[e9999]

if you want to add a cooler, I would think that some careful choice is warranted. You don't want to decrease flow rate and pressure much since limited pressure is already what we have to deal with here. So a cooler with low pressure drop (i.e. with very big passages and/or very effective for the nominal heat transfer rate) would be preferred.

 

[landtank]

Here is a link to my Winch install. I basically removed the factory cooler and bend up some hard line to go over to the one I installed. This was an oil cooler found on some 4 wheel drive Toyota cars. BJowett mentioned this in another thread. The cooler cost me $5.00 at a junk yard and they had 3 to choose from. It is nippled to the same size an the PS system so plumbing it in was easy with standard 3/8" tranny hose. After it was fitted I thought that the steering effort was actually easier and attributed it to less restriction from that OEM cooler but I can't be sure.

 

[e9999]

Rick, seems like the MM hoses terminate in a JIC 6 fitting. Any idea what the Toy OEMs are that you have to connect to at the PS? If I am to cut the hoses short, maybe I could terminate them in the correct fitting for Toy and avoid buying the MM adapter kit altogether...

 

[landtank]

The PS pump is a banjo type end and the gearbox is a 90* bend to a NPT (I think) threaded end.

What is nice about the adapter kit is that the hoses can easilly be replaced with off the shelf stock at and hydraulic supplier.

 

[Satamax]

OK, did some reading around here, but I'm getting conflicting opinions on the suitability of the OEM PS pump on an FZJ to power a hydraulic winch. Could somebody who actually has one (LT?) tell us whether it works OK or not in practice?

Why don't you put a proper big hydraulic pump on a PTO? Gives you teh option of several speeds.

 

[alvarorb]

Eric,

Which winch are you getting?


Alvaro