Landcruiser 200 series rear bumpers (2 Viewers)

[HeritageCruiser]

I bought a Dissent Offroad rear bumper with dual swing arms. I'm not very impressed with it. Anyone else have one or tried using the recovery points on the rear bumper? I personally don't think I trust the recovery points for any type of hard pull and will just use the receiver hitch. I'm still in the process of building the bumper because it comes completely unassembled, like an erector set for adults. Its kind of one of those month long project type jobs. I was really wanting to get the Slee Offroad rear bumper but they haven't had any available for over a year so I bought this instead, I'm wishing I had just waited now.

 

[tbisaacs]

Lots of happy Dissent customers on this board. Would wait to make up your mind until you get it assembled. There is a very long install thread here

Dissent Front/Rear Bumper install instructions (LX)

Thanks to @benc for fabbing up his wicked design for the 200, entrusting me with a self-install, and for answering a ton of my silly questions. Mad props to @1world1love for sending me countless reference pictures and measurements! I'll be back to add a ton more details, but for now, I'm going...

forum.ih8mud.com

I haven’t used the rear points yet but have no reason not to trust them. They are steel and have grade 8 bolts that go through the frame.

By far my favorite piece of hardware.

 

[04UZJ100]

What makes you think it’s not up to the task?

 

[CharlieS]

I recently installed mine and agree with @tbisaacs .

I wouldn't hesitate to use the Dissent recovery points. But I also wouldn't shy away from using a proper hitch mounted recovery point either. The steel recovery points on the Dissent bumper have to be at least as sturdily mounted than one held by a tow hitch pin. Those 4-1/2" bolts are huge, plus I seem to recall that they get tied into the composite structure that gets assembled to include bolts that go to the original recovery points that mount the wings.

 

[CharlieS]

I bought a Dissent Offroad rear bumper with dual swing arms. ... I was really wanting to get the Slee Offroad rear bumper but they haven't had any available for over a year so I bought this instead, I'm wishing I had just waited now.

I'm sure if you want to keep waiting for the Slee, someone would buy your Dissent bumper. As you know, there is a long wait, so if someone could get yours more quickly, they might be excited to do so.

 

[SF1911A1]

My dissent rear bumper arrived about a month ago and it’s still sitting in the freight box untouched in my garage because I don’t have the time to deal with all the assembly. I should call a Houston area cruiser shop and get a quote to just have it done…

 

[radman]

My dissent rear bumper arrived about a month ago and it’s still sitting in the freight box untouched in my garage because I don’t have the time to deal with all the assembly. I should call a Houston area cruiser shop and get a quote to just have it done…

Be very careful on which Houston shop you call. There’s a group thread of pissed off customers from a particular shop.

 

[HeritageCruiser]

My dissent rear bumper arrived about a month ago and it’s still sitting in the freight box untouched in my garage because I don’t have the time to deal with all the assembly. I should call a Houston area cruiser shop and get a quote to just have it done…

I own a shop and I would never have my guys install this bumper, we would lose our ass on the install or the customer would be unhappy with the install price.

 

[SF1911A1]

I own a shop and I would never have my guys install this bumper, we would lose our ass on the install or the customer would be unhappy with the install price.

Fair enough. And thanks for the warning, Radman.

 

[radman]

I own a shop and I would never have my guys install this bumper, we would lose our ass on the install or the customer would be unhappy with the install price.

Of course, First one is always the hardest. I could probably do it in 5-6 hours now (not including the the tri lights or camera relo)
I think shops around here quote 8

 

[HeritageCruiser]

I recently installed mine and agree with @tbisaacs .

I wouldn't hesitate to use the Dissent recovery points. But I also wouldn't shy away from using a proper hitch mounted recovery point either. The steel recovery points on the Dissent bumper have to be at least as sturdily mounted than one held by a tow hitch pin. Those 4-1/2" bolts are huge, plus I seem to recall that they get tied into the composite structure that gets assembled to include bolts that go to the original recovery points that mount the wings.

My problem with the recovery points is they are held on with one 1/2" bolt on each side. The recovery point bracket bolt holes for the 1/2" bolts are slotted and you cant slide them to the end of the slotted hole because of how the bumper and wing parts mount. So in a hard pull if the 1/2" bolt slides in the slotted hole I'm worried its going to bend the aluminum wings, center section or shear the 5/16" allen head stainless bolts. This is just one problem I see with the bumper. It also sits farther to the passenger side of the vehicle because the passenger side recovery bracket hits a factory bracket welded on the frame not allowing the bumper to be centered. The bumper center piece design was changed and doesn't bolt to the hitch but is so close to the hitch its going to rattle unless I modify it or bend it away somehow. I also had problems with some of the bolts galling that thread into captive nuts even though I used antisieze on them and ran them in by hand. Its a nice looking bumper but just not happy with many aspects of it so far. Right now after spending two hours today trying to get it centered only to discover the passenger side recovery point bracket is hitting a bracket on the frame and that the center section is going to rattle on the hitch I'm pretty frustrated with the whole thing. I have yet to deal with the parking sensors that dont fit and the light wiring. I'm sure it will look nice when done after I spend a rediculous amount of time making everything work but I still wouldnt use the recovery points for fear of damaging things or pulling everything out of alignment, every hole on the bumper is slotted.

 

[HeritageCruiser]

My problem with the recovery points is they are held on with one 1/2" bolt on each side. The recovery point bracket bolt holes for the 1/2" bolts are slotted and you cant slide them to the end of the slotted hole because of how the bumper and wing parts mount. So in a hard pull if the 1/2" bolt slides in the slotted hole I'm worried its going to bend the aluminum wings, center section or shear the 5/16" allen head stainless bolts. This is just one problem I see with the bumper. It also sits farther to the passenger side of the vehicle because the passenger side recovery bracket hits a factory bracket welded on the frame not allowing the bumper to be centered. The bumper center piece design was changed and doesn't bolt to the hitch but is so close to the hitch its going to rattle unless I modify it or bend it away somehow. I also had problems with some of the bolts galling that thread into captive nuts even though I used antisieze on them and ran them in by hand. Its a nice looking bumper but just not happy with many aspects of it so far. Right now after spending two hours today trying to get it centered only to discover the passenger side recovery point bracket is hitting a bracket on the frame and that the center section is going to rattle on the hitch I'm pretty frustrated with the whole thing. I have yet to deal with the parking sensors that dont fit and the light wiring. I'm sure it will look nice when done after I spend a rediculous amount of time making everything work but I still wouldnt use the recovery points for fear of damaging things or pulling everything out of alignment, every hole on the bumper is slotted.

I could weld the recovery point brackets to the frame in a few spots which would keep anything from moving and I may do this.

 

[CharlieS]

If that helps keep your anxiety in check, go for it. Dissent has been making very high quality bumpers for years and has a strong following. You may be the first person that I've heard express concerns about the robustness of the recovery points. As a shop, if it helps you avoid callbacks, welding may be worthwhile. As a lone owner and self installer, I like the idea that is modular - I can easily remove parts to adjust them, resolve issues without grinding welds, and have the ability to replace individual damaged parts, if needed. Maybe you should stick willth the simpler full bumper, one piece, replacement options?

 

[TLC2013]

No issues with the recovery points from my experience. Have used them multiple times to pull out vehicles and also to be pulled out. Have had their front and rear bumpers for about 3 years, no regrets. Would buy again.

 

[HeritageCruiser]

How are you guys resizing pictures to post on this forum? I would post some pictures but says the files are too big

If that helps keep your anxiety in check, go for it. Dissent has been making very high quality bumpers for years and has a strong following. You may be the first person that I've heard express concerns about the robustness of the recovery points. As a shop, if it helps you avoid callbacks, welding may be worthwhile. As a lone owner and self installer, I like the idea that is modular - I can easily remove parts to adjust them, resolve issues without grinding welds, and have the ability to replace individual damaged parts, if needed. Maybe you should stick willth the simpler full bumper, one piece, replacement options?

I just know that a slotted hole with a bolt through is going to allow the part to eventually slide to the end of the slot. This is a recovery point that is going to get jerked on, and have thousands of pounds of pressure against it and possibly severe shock loads, it needs to be very secure.

Why are ARB recovery point holes not slotted? Why does ARB have you drill and put stake bolts in their front winch bumper mounting points? Its so the bumper will not slide in the slotted adjustment holes once its adjusted into place.

I have attention to detail and I noticed there is no way to make the Dissent bumper stay in place in a hard pull once its all bolted together because all the holes are slotted and I think its a design issue.

Maybe everyone is ok with the bumper possibly sliding back a half inch or more and putting stress on the small 5/16" bolts and aluminum wing parts and pulling the bumper out of alignment but I'm not ok with that. Once I have all the bumper lines adjusted correctly and everything in place I want it to stay in place and not move, bend or break any mounting hardware when using a recovery point.

I also have a problem with the clearance issue of the recovery point on the passenger side hitting a welded on bracket on the frame and not allowing me to center the bumper, but maybe everyone else is ok with that. I'm not sure what to do with this problem now because I don't want to cut that bracket off the frame because it may be needed for other items to mount to, I'm just not sure at this point. To clearance the passenger side steel recovery bracket to clear the frame bracket would mean many hours of taking the bumper all back apart to remove the recovery point, grind down the area that is hitting the frame bracket. touch up the paint on the bracket, reinstall and adjust everything again. I could probably cut the bracket on the frame off to clear but its not easy to get to and it would have been much easier to do with the bumper off the vehicle. I'm also not sure if that bracket is needed for other things that I'm planning on installing like a LRA fuel tank and possibly rear BudBuilt skid plate.

Also if this is a problem on my vehicle its probably a problem on others too. This is something that should be addressed in the directions before the whole bumper is installed. The recovery point bracket probably needs to be changed slightly in their drawings so this doesn't continue to happen. If I was doing another one of these I would know to grind down the recovery point bracket to clear.

I also have a problem with the bumper center piece vibrating against the frame, its too close to the hitch crossmember on the drivers side, but not on the passenger side, it looks like the drivers side part of it was overbroke in the forming process. If it wasn't bent so much it would be fine. This also wouldn't be a problem if the bumper center piece still bolted to the hitch with the 7/16" bolts in the center like they used to but they changed the design. I may be able to put some large crescent wrenches on it with some tape and rags to protect the finish and bend it down some.

I also followed the directions for drilling and tapping the two bolt holes on the bottom of the hitch for the 7/16" bolts only to find out the directions were wrong for my version bumper and I didn't need to do this. The new directions were not out yet when they sent this bumper to me. I think the new directions are out now and I will print out the new directions and go over them but there should have been a note in with the bumper that the online directions were not correct for this version of the bumper.

The two thicker bump stops supplied in the kit for the swing arms also do not work and are too long. I emailed Dissent and they were right on it and are sending me new shorter bump stops.

Mainly I was wondering if anyone else has ran into these issues and what was done to resolve the problems. These bumpers are expensive and I expect things to fit properly paying this kind of money. I also know lots of installers out there just throw things together and hope for the best.

I have a high attention to detail and I want everything to be lined up, centered and not get out of alignment if its actually used hard.

These Landcruisers are heavy empty, they are crazy heavy loaded. If burried to the frame you also have all the rolling resitance to deal with and using a winch or tow strap there could be 12k to 20k pounds or more of pressure against one recovery point. I don't think it would rip off but I do think the bracket will slide to the end of the slotted hole and everything attached to it will move or possibly bend. I want to solve any problems now and not be back in the shop going wow thats all bent out of place now and trying to fix things afterwards.

I will post some pictures of what I'm talking about when I get time.

 

[bloc]

In general, if you are relying on the bolt not shearing for a connection to survive, it wasn't designed well. In a well-designed system there should be enough clamping force to prevent slipping whether the hole is slotted or not.

I can't comment on whether this system is adequate.. that would take an engineer. I'm just making the point that if it's all designed well the holes being slotted shouldn't matter.

 

[radman]

It takes a certain kind of person to order one of these with the intention of installing it themselves. Not every frame is the same. Not every body panel is the same. Sometimes the body isn’t perfectly aligned with the frame and you have to grind and paint - or sometimes you have to use a BFH. Complaining is okay to an extent. we are here to help. But I sounds like you’ve already made up your mind about it.

As other have said, the clamping force and integration with all the other bolts and wings lock everything together.
You certainly won’t have any problems reselling the thing.

 

[04UZJ100]

It takes a certain kind of person to order one of these with the intention of installing it themselves. Not every frame is the same. Not every body panel is the same. Sometimes the body isn’t perfectly aligned with the frame and you have to grind and paint - or sometimes you have to use a BFH. Complaining is okay to an extent. we are here to help. But I sounds like you’ve already made up your mind about it.

As other have said, the clamping force and integration with all the other bolts and wings lock everything together.
You certainly won’t have any problems reselling the thing.

Disagree. Quality welds are not the only reason to buy a product. OP is not complaining - he’s voicing an opinion about a product that he doesn’t care for that others do. Let’s not get anybody’s ‘feel bads’ hurt over it.

 

[benc]

I bought a Dissent Offroad rear bumper with dual swing arms. I'm not very impressed with it. Anyone else have one or tried using the recovery points on the rear bumper? I personally don't think I trust the recovery points for any type of hard pull and will just use the receiver hitch. I'm still in the process of building the bumper because it comes completely unassembled, like an erector set for adults. Its kind of one of those month long project type jobs. I was really wanting to get the Slee Offroad rear bumper but they haven't had any available for over a year so I bought this instead, I'm wishing I had just waited now.

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Sorry to hear you feel this way!

That being said we have close to 1000 if not more of these in the field including the original on our shop 200 that has gotten used and abused for years without issues. We have seen zero issues or failures to the recovery points. Honestly the only complaints we do get are with installation as it is a bit of a task but honestly no more than others like the arb. We have plenty of shops around the country that install our bumpers and prefer installing our bumpers over the competition.
I do believe you are looking at the individual pieces and making assumptions from there vs looking at it as a whole. As long as the bumper is installed properly and all bolts torqued the bumper will not move as long as safe proper recovery is practiced.
Mine has taken many hits and I have never once had to realign. If it does make you feel better you could certainly weld it but it is completely unnecessary.
I understand if you have concerns however stating these concerns as facts with no personal experience with using this bumper is honestly a bit surprising to me. Like I said and many have chimed in above there have been zero issues to our knowledge backing you concerns and we are confident you will have the same experience.
Happy to hop on a call with you and go into more detail if it helps ease your mind.

 

[bubbaZR2]

I'll gladly take it if you don't want it.