Josh’s Cars of Japan reviews the LC250 (13 Viewers)

[Jetboy]

FWIW - I didn't think it's a lack of advertising that killed the 200. I know what it is. Can afford it. Didn't buy it. It just wasn't a very good value. Missing the lockers, no off-road trim, mid-range interior and tech. And in a market segment where 90+% of vehicles are leased for 3ish years - longevity doesn't sell.

I think it's a marketing failure, but the failure was the product and the price. It needed to be $50k (2008)- ~65k (2021)for what the vehicle was and where it fit in the USA market.

 

[2021 LC200]

FWIW - I didn't think it's a lack of advertising that killed the 200. I know what it is. Can afford it. Didn't buy it. It just wasn't a very good value. Missing the lockers, no off-road trim, mid-range interior and tech. And in a market segment where 90+% of vehicles are leased for 3ish years - longevity doesn't sell.

I think it's a marketing failure, but the failure was the product and the price. It needed to be $50k (2008)- ~65k (2021)for what the vehicle was and where it fit in the USA market.

Disagree. For how it is build, how long it will last and what it can do it was priced more than reasonable and together with depreciation ahead of the bunch.

 

[Jetboy]

Disagree. For how it is build, how long it will last and what it can do it was priced more than reasonable and together with depreciation ahead of the bunch.

The tundra existed. It's half the cost and a more robust power train. The midsize SUV format isn't worth double the cost to very many buyers.

 

[hoot504]

Disagree. For how it is build, how long it will last and what it can do it was priced more than reasonable and together with depreciation ahead of the bunch.

If you truly buy this car as a permanent fixture of your stable, it is a tremendous value. Something would have to happen to my 200 series for me to get rid of it, and if it does go 250k+ miles I'll laugh at how I 'only' had to fork over $90k for it back in 2018.

 

[Jetboy]

If you truly buy this car as a permanent fixture of your stable, it is a tremendous value. Something would have to happen to my 200 series for me to get rid of it, and if it does go 250k+ miles I'll laugh at how I 'only' had to fork over $90k for it back in 2018.

I don't see it. If I bought an lc200 in 2008 and still had it, I'd have a 200k mile lc200. If I bought a 4Runner and put the $50k difference in the SP500, I'd have a 200k mile 4Runner with likely the same or less repair costs and $224,500. Even long term it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you have a very specific use case.

A $30k used lc200 looks a bit more like a reasonable value. I like the vehicle. If it were priced like international markets it might have sold well.

 

[hoot504]

I don't see it. If I bought an lc200 in 2008 and still had it, I'd have a 200k mile lc200. If I bought a 4Runner and put the $50k difference in the SP500, I'd have a 200k mile 4Runner with likely the same or less repair costs and $224,500. Even long term it doesn't make a lot of sense unless you have a very specific use case.

A $30k used lc200 looks a bit more like a reasonable value. I like the vehicle. If it were priced like international markets it might have sold well.

I'm just going to refrain from doing that math on my GT3

This is a car forum. Not bogleheads.

 

[Jetboy]

I'm just going to refrain from doing that math on my GT3

This is a car forum. Not bogleheads.

It is. But the lc200 just isn't meaningfully different from a 4Runner or tundra depending on your needs. It's just twice as expensive to get a vehicle half way between. It should have been priced appropriately for what it is. It wasn't. It didn't sell. I don't think there's much mystery why.

My main point of that I the think it wasn't lack of promotion. Toyota could have promoted the crap out of it and it wouldn't move the needle. $15k correction on price is what Toyota needed.

 

[stridertexas]

There’s a reason a 200 was listed at mid $80s MSRP and before COVID could be regularly had for several Gs off in NA. There were no buyers.

NA needed and pleaded on past threads for a cheaper & less luxurious rig & with better range. We got it.

If people don’t like it, then you should honestly find low mileage 200s and hoard them in a barn for the next 20 years, until you can use the next one.

I personally see no value in trying to live in the past like that. I trust Toyota made the right R&D decisions for building the new rig in todays world w/ todays challenges even if it’s different.

 

[2021 LC200]

I do not want or a need a truck.

I do want the enclosed cargo space.

I do want all roads/surfaces capability.

I also do want to be able to park it in our garage all the time out of the sun, Tundra be a stretch.

The 4 runner is nice but so much louder, cannot tow much unless it is real small and you sit with the seats straight on the ground. It is a great but small SUV, which serves its purpose, yet is not an alternative for the 200. The argument you can buy two for the price of one 200 is irrelevant. You can buy three Corolla’s for my 2014 BMW 535d, they provide multiple times less though on all sorts of fronts except for durability, although mine is 11 years now and doing very well.

At $81k given durability and all round capability I maintain it is very good value for money, better than many others on the market. I also like the looks, that is ofcourse a matter of taste.

Awesome we live in a democratic free country with tons of car choices, one which can suite many likes. To bad they robbed us from the LC300 here in the US and Canada.

 

[jmdaniel]

I'm just going to refrain from doing that math on my GT3

Or the '77 FJ40 I've had for a dozen years...

 

[MRego]

If I bought a 4Runner and put the $50k difference in the SP500, I'd have a 200k mile 4Runner with likely the same or less repair costs and $224,500.

Here we go again with the S&P X money in a car comparison. Come on man, this is a CAR forum, with CAR enthusiasts, not a financial comparison model/discussion. If this was the latter, we would be discussing forking the lower amount of money for a car ($5k used corolla) and putting ALL your money in the market/indexes/etc. There so much more in buying/liking a car than just a paper-financial comparison/decision.

If Toyota had poured half of the amount of marketing in the 200 as it is now pouring in the PRADO, sales would have improved by a LOT. Pre-2021, most people in the street would not be able to separate a 200 from a Sequoia. They would at most think of the 200 as a bigger 4Runner. Toyota played us all in a master way. Took the 200 out of the market (not before launching a "swan song" Heritage Edition to improve appeal to the name plate), killing the enthusiast that knew what it was, let 2/3 years pass and came back launching the "New Land Cruiser" and delivering the PRADO. Genius. They spend less money to produce the PRADO, reach a much broader audience (looking at you ex-4Runner/GX-460 owners) and charge almost the same money as the old 200 (which was worth the $80k price tag).

Say what you want, Toyota was genius and only us the enthusiasts were left stranded having to settle for the PRADO and buy into the "New Land Cruiser" fairy tale or going to the LX600 and bear the engine issues and zero off-road orientation.

 

[Phillyd2]

It is. But the lc200 just isn't meaningfully different from a 4Runner or tundra depending on your needs. It's just twice as expensive to get a vehicle half way between. It should have been priced appropriately for what it is. It wasn't. It didn't sell. I don't think there's much mystery why.

My main point of that I the think it wasn't lack of promotion. Toyota could have promoted the crap out of it and it wouldn't move the needle. $15k correction on price is what Toyota needed.

That "depending" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here.

 

[MRego]

That "depending" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here.

Right? Also saying a 200 build quality is "meaningfully" the same as a 4Runner or Tundra, makes me wonder if the person ever sat in a 200. Even my wife - who is oblivious to anything car related - notes the hefty difference in construction when going from her 4runner to my 200.

 

[Jetboy]

That "depending" is doing a lot of the heavy lifting here.

Right? Also saying a 200 build quality is "meaningfully" the same as a 4Runner or Tundra, makes me wonder if the person ever sat in a 200. Even my wife - who is oblivious to anything car related - notes the hefty difference in construction when going from her 4runner to my 200.

And they said the marking didn't work.

4r and 200 were built on the same production line by the same people. The tundra is heavier duty the 4runner is lighter. The 200 is in the middle. It's metal and paint. There's no magic. I've driven them all. If you have a specific need for a midsize SUV that has a lot of towing capacity, the lc200 is unusual in that category. That's the use case I can think of. I'm not sure there's anything else it does better than a Tundra or 4Runner. And there's nothing that costs more to manufacturer. Heavy and sluggish is often confused for build quality.

 

[tacoshawn]

So, keeping it simple.

200 out of production. For some it is the pinnacle of LC. Have heard that dozens of times.

So buy a used one (or three) and post in the 200 forum about the spares you are collecting and how you will keep it going until 2050 versus shouting at the clouds in the Prado/250/GX550 forum.!?!?

 

[2021 LC200]

And they said the marking didn't work.

4r and 200 were built on the same production line by the same people. The tundra is heavier duty the 4runner is lighter. The 200 is in the middle. It's metal and paint. There's no magic. I've driven them all. If you have a specific need for a midsize SUV that has a lot of towing capacity, the lc200 is unusual in that category. That's the use case I can think of. I'm not sure there's anything else it does better than a Tundra or 4Runner. And there's nothing that costs more to manufacturer. Heavy and sluggish is often confused for build quality.

The 200 series is relative quiet at 75 mph on the high way. Easy to listen to music or have a conversation between first and second rows. With the distances in the US that itself is worth a lot to me. Wherever you look the 200 is overbuild and is the right combination of choices, including the wheelbase and overall size. The Tundra is just a big work truck or the high end models an expensive version of the same.

What is Jetboy logic is not mine. I have noticed that in a lot of threads. That is fine, good we are all different.

 

[Jetboy]

The 200 series is relative quiet at 75 mph on the high way. Easy to listen to music or have a conversation between first and second rows. With the distances in the US that itself is worth a lot to me. Wherever you look the 200 is overbuild. The Tundra is just a work truck or the high end models an expensive version of the same.

What is Jetboy logic is not mine. I have noticed that in a lot of threads. That is fine, good we are all different.

Have you driven a higher trim tundra? A platinum tundra and Sequoia were similar. The lc200 is also a dressed up work truck. The high volume base trim was cloth seats and a 4.0 V6. And it started around 40k. The lc300 is under $40k right now in global markets.

I don't hate the LC. I just don't see the emperor's clothes. It's obvious why they didn't sell very well at the price Toyota chose for the USA market.

 

[2021 LC200]

Have you driven a higher trim tundra? A platinum tundra and Sequoia were similar. The lc200 is also a dressed up work truck. The high volume base trim was cloth seats and a 4.0 V6. And it started around 40k. The lc300 is under $40k right now in global markets.

I don't hate the LC. I just don't see the emperor's clothes. It's obvious why they didn't sell very well at the price Toyota chose for the USA market.

I drove a previous model top of the line Tundra and I thought is was very bouncy on the high way and loud in comparison. The new one I have not tried. No interets as I do not need a pickup truck, does not easily fit in my garage, it is a different class of vehicle.

Did you get one and are active with Tundra owners on the forums for that?

 

[2021 LC200]

the emperor

Good to know that deep in your heart you know the 200 series is the emperor also known as the King of All Roads. As a car enthusiast you really wish you just had one. Good we got that cleared up here.

It's obvious why they didn't sell very well at the price Toyota chose for the USA market.

There is many things people here do not get. The fact it is a unique vehicle makes it even better for me and certainly worth more in the long term. Thanks for clearing that up as well.

Perhaps Jetboy logic is starting to work out when pushed a little?

 

[Phillyd2]

And they said the marking didn't work.

4r and 200 were built on the same production line by the same people. The tundra is heavier duty the 4runner is lighter. The 200 is in the middle. It's metal and paint. There's no magic. I've driven them all. If you have a specific need for a midsize SUV that has a lot of towing capacity, the lc200 is unusual in that category. That's the use case I can think of. I'm not sure there's anything else it does better than a Tundra or 4Runner. And there's nothing that costs more to manufacturer. Heavy and sluggish is often confused for build quality.

Well then kudos to Toyota for building basically the same for so much less money. A truly amazing feat.