Josh’s Cars of Japan reviews the LC250

[hoot504]

The market definitely told Toyota the 200's price was too high. So here we are.

I’m aware of the anemic sales numbers but I think there’s a difference between being priced too high for what the product is vs bringing a product to market that most people just can’t afford. When I bought my 200 in 2019 I really didn’t think twice about the price. I knew I was getting a real piece of automotive craftsmanship and expected to pay accordingly. Every year that goes by the truck seems like more and more of a deal. When I look around now and truly do not see anything that could replace it, it feels like a total steal.

 

[rexington14]

I’m aware of the anemic sales numbers but I think there’s a difference between being priced too high for what the product is vs bringing a product to market that most people just can’t afford. When I bought my 200 in 2019 I really didn’t think twice about the price. I knew I was getting a real piece of automotive craftsmanship and expected to pay accordingly. Every year that goes by the truck seems like more and more of a deal. When I look around now and truly do not see anything that could replace it, it feels like a total steal.

Plenty of folks could afford a new vehicle in the 200's price range. But most bought something else - range rover, bmw, audi, escalade, model x, etc.

 

[Phillyd2]

Plenty of folks could afford a new vehicle in the 200's price range. But most bought something else - range rover, bmw, audi, escalade, model x, etc.

Right! It was mostly a matter of crap marketing or more accurately the complete lack of any meaningful marketing. Most just didn’t know what it was and why it was worth a premium cost. Now compare that to the much less ‘worthy’ 250 and how they will market the new 4R.

 

[185]

The market definitely told Toyota the 200's price was too high. So here we are.

To add on, Toyota also had a serious case of FOMO/sitting on the sidelines unable to pocket the cash folks were dropping on buying high mileage/used rigs at the $50k mark. offer a cheaper entry point to the new land cruiser brand and done.

 

[rexington14]

Right! It was mostly a matter of crap marketing or more accurately the complete lack of any meaningful marketing. Most just didn’t know what it was and why it was worth a premium cost. Now compare that to the much less ‘worthy’ 250 and how they will market the new 4R.

At this price point with what the typical new buyer is looking for it's more likely most would simply consider what it offered as inferior compared with the competition. (luxury, prestige, technology, power, handling). You spent $90k on a Toyota?! Lol....

 

[mattyokan]

At this price point it's more likely most would simply consider what it offered as inferior compared with the competition. (luxury, prestige, technology, power, handling). You spent $90k on a Toyota?! Lol....

Plus, the $$$ was going to things that the typical consumer in that segment seemed to care about: the interior looked dated (a positive to very few, but not the types flushing money down the drain in a Land Rover or Mercedes), there were plastics (good plastics, but not like the average luxury car buyer can tell the difference), and not as many bells and whistles or fancy designs.

But yeah, the badge is probably the biggest part of it---consumers who care about vanity and ""image"" (whatever crap that is) think Toyota is just a cheap car brand and don't have the same view of the badge that those in the cult do

 

[185]

Plus, the $$$ was going to things that the typical consumer in that segment seemed to care about: the interior looked dated (a positive to very few, but not the types flushing money down the drain in a Land Rover or Mercedes), there were plastics (good plastics, but not like the average luxury car buyer can tell the difference), and not as many bells and whistles or fancy designs.

But yeah, the badge is probably the biggest part of it---consumers who care about vanity and ""image"" (whatever crap that is) think Toyota is just a cheap car brand and don't have the same view of the badge that those in the cult do

Also toyotas own doing, but talk about confusing their customer

LC200 vs LX200
5k delta

Dropping close to 90k for both, one comes with toyota dealership experience the other coming with higher level of customer focus

 

[Phillyd2]

At this price point with what the typical new buyer is looking for it's more likely most would simply consider what it offered as inferior compared with the competition. (luxury, prestige, technology, power, handling). You spent $90k on a Toyota?! Lol....

Prestige anything are not meant to be for the general consumer. It’s fine to make most for them but the iconic LC brand name was never meant to be that as everyone understood that the best came with a price. Whoring out that prestigious name for a 4R trim level remains their original sin. Shame to see that it has been so widely normalized, justified and excused here.

 

[hoot504]

At this price point with what the typical new buyer is looking for it's more likely most would simply consider what it offered as inferior compared with the competition. (luxury, prestige, technology, power, handling). You spent $90k on a Toyota?! Lol....

Ironically those with that mindset get absolutely killed on depreciation. Poetic justice.

 

[rexington14]

Prestige anything are not meant to be for the general consumer. It’s fine to make most for them but the iconic LC brand name was never meant to be that as everyone understood that the best came with a price. Whoring out that prestigious name for a 4R trim level remains their original sin. Shame to see that it has been so widely normalized, justified and excused here.

I don't think many buyers understood that about the "Land Cruiser" brand name at all. And if they did, they didn't really care. In fact, for both the 100 and 200 series runs, the Lexus LX 470/570 variants outsold the Toyota Land Cruiser by a very significant margin - every single year. What does that say about the target buyer at the time? What name was more important in the purchase decision?

 

[TheLCProject]

When was the last time Toyota/Lexus made a land cruiser/LX to order? Do those sales numbers just represent the amounts of vehicles the pencil pushers and marketers think they would sell each year? Sure, there's an element of demand, but it's not like people went in and asked for a specific unit to be built. They bought what Toyota/Lexus had on the lot.

 

[2021 LC200]

When you consider capability, durability and the way they depreciate, seems to me the $81k I paid for my brand new LC200 in Nov 2020 is pretty good and a league up from BMW’s, Mercedes, Lincoln, GMC etc. So while $87k including tax is up there, just the ability to drive it for 300k miles or more makes it a good deal. Then the rest of its capabilities are the cherries on top. Makes it awesome.

 

[185]

I don't think many buyers understood that about the "Land Cruiser" brand name at all. And if they did, they didn't really care. In fact, for both the 100 and 200 series runs, the Lexus LX 470/570 variants outsold the Toyota Land Cruiser by a very significant margin - every single year. What does that say about the target buyer at the time? What name was more important in the purchase decision?

Majority of owners of the LX are leasing, and if you looked at the amount of incentives they used to pile onto the LX whether it be in cash or lease terms it nullified the sticker delta between purchasing a LC and LX. If your going to drop flagship money, might as well get the dang best.

The LC nameplate held a premium though on the used market, where mudders put the LC higher then its comparable LX.

Same thing happened with the GX/4R.

 

[TheLCProject]

Majority of owners of the LX are leasing, and if you looked at the amount of incentives they used to pile onto the LX whether it be in cash or lease terms it nullified the sticker delta between purchasing a LC and LX. If your going to drop flagship money, might as well get the dang best.

The LC nameplate held a premium though on the used market, where mudders put the LC higher then its comparable LX.

Same thing happened with the GX/4R.

So that's how Toyota moved LX sales along...attractive lease terms to clear the lot.

 

[rexington14]

When was the last time Toyota/Lexus made a land cruiser/LX to order? Do those sales numbers just represent the amounts of vehicles the pencil pushers and marketers think they would sell each year? Sure, there's an element of demand, but it's not like people went in and asked for a specific unit to be built. They bought what Toyota/Lexus had on the lot.

I would assume that Toyota corporate (pencil pushers and marketers) would have adjusted production numbers and ratios between LC and LX if it was warranted - especially considering the demand and market observations occurred over a product cycle lasting 20+ years

 

[185]

When was the last time Toyota/Lexus made a land cruiser/LX to order? Do those sales numbers just represent the amounts of vehicles the pencil pushers and marketers think they would sell each year? Sure, there's an element of demand, but it's not like people went in and asked for a specific unit to be built. They bought what Toyota/Lexus had on the lot.

Toyota does not have a customer build to order scheme in place. They take in account historical take rates for options whether it be color combo or feature combos, and build that spec to region. Most dealers will try to match a customer request to whats inbound.

With LC there was nothing much to kit as everything was standard. The Lx same. Now they have more trim levels but there essentially just bundles of options that toyota's customer data has indicated would sell.

 

[Phillyd2]

I don't think many buyers understood that about the "Land Cruiser" brand name at all. And if they did, they didn't really care. In fact, for both the 100 and 200 series runs, the Lexus LX 470/570 variants outsold the Toyota Land Cruiser by a very significant margin - every single year. What does that say about the target buyer at the time? What name was more important in the purchase decision?

In the US it's true that most had no clue which circles right back to why. Zero to little marketing. Elsewhere you'd have to find someone to lie to claim they didn't know.

 

[stridertexas]

This vehicle can’t be all things to all people. None of the prior gen’s were either.

I’ve owned a 60,62,100,100,200 & now a 250. They were all great in their own way. The 200 got too bloated and heavy and pricey. Sure it was a luxurious tank, but it drove like one too. Land Cruisers weren’t supposed to be rock crawlers. Sure you can make them into that, but they’re supposed to be comfy over landing rigs.

I think Toyota hit the nail on the head with the new 250 and I’m excited to own it. It’s more nimble, fuel efficient, and just as comfortable as the 200. The driver assists are super welcome too.

This thing is awesome.

 

[2021 LC200]

This vehicle can’t be all things to all people. None of the prior gen’s were either.

I’ve owned a 60,62,100,100,200 & now a 250. They were all great in their own way. The 200 got too bloated and heavy and pricey. Sure it was a luxurious tank, but it drove like one too. Land Cruisers weren’t supposed to be rock crawlers. Sure you can make them into that, but they’re supposed to be comfy over landing rigs.

I think Toyota hit the nail on the head with the new 250 and I’m excited to own it. It’s more nimble, fuel efficient, and just as comfortable as the 200. The driver assists are super welcome too.

This thing is awesome.

I have driven 80 and 100 series and they are nice. The 200 series is slightly larger and lot more in many ways. Close to perfection and a lives up to the King of All Roads mantra.

Not sure what the 250 series is or why it is even called a Land Cruiser. It does not deserve that name anywhere near. Previous Prado models where arguable more what one wants from a Toyota. This is all a result of politicians/EPA meddling and Toyota no longer run by the original owners. Going for money instead of building the best vehicles. Clearly leveraging ignorant buyers who wannabe.

 

[stridertexas]

thought this was a good video.