Jerry Can Ladder Thingymabob feedback needed

[Trunk Monkey]

My two cents, I just don't see a ladder on the back end as a useful addition. If I need to secure things to the roof, I either stand on the sliders and tires on the sides or on the tail gate on the back. Only other reason I'd be on the roof would be a tent and it has a ladder (and it opens to the side or well past where the ladder is in the back).

I think the simple ladders on the Hannah and 4x4Labs bumper look great, but I don't hear about many people using them. I really like the idea of a modular system, but I think more basic would have more appeal. Options like:

- Single, double, and triple jerry can holder
- HAM antenna mount
- bike rack that incorporates the 2nd arm and the lugs of the spare holder
- simple hook/clip for a trail trash bag
- reciever type posts on the insides of both arms, when you have them open you have a fold open chair that attaches to them

And I know having a customer wire something could be a potential nightmare, but with the additional stuff partially covering the lights, I'd really like some additional tail lights in the bumper.

Glad to see you're giving the 100 some love.

 

[sleeoffroad]

My two cents, I just don't see a ladder on the back end as a useful addition. If I need to secure things to the roof, I either stand on the sliders and tires on the sides or on the tail gate on the back. Only other reason I'd be on the roof would be a tent and it has a ladder (and it opens to the side or well past where the ladder is in the back).

We get a lot of request for a ladder and also for a jerry can holder. What we are trying to do is have a jerry can holder what incorporates a ladder and essentially getting the ladder for free.

I think the simple ladders on the Hannah and 4x4Labs bumper look great, but I don't hear about many people using them.

Is it because they don't work easily or people just think it is cool to have a ladder? I can see where getting on the roof help, but you have valid points re the tent etc. For those people this would not make sense but they still have the option to purchase the bumper with dual swingouts and have it customized they way they want.

I really like the idea of a modular system, but I think more basic would have more appeal. Options like:

- Single, double, and triple jerry can holder

As soon as you go beyond 1 can, then the issue of ground clearance etc comes into play. A single can holder can be put on the swingout pretty easily without sticking out.

- HAM antenna mount

Should be pretty easy to add or incorporate in the sheetmetal for this one.

- bike rack that incorporates the 2nd arm and the lugs of the spare holder

Not sure what you have in mind on this.

- simple hook/clip for a trail trash bag

Also pretty easy to add, so is the integrated bottle opener

- reciever type posts on the insides of both arms, when you have them open you have a fold open chair that attaches to them

This could work, but would be limited to use when the tailgate is not open. if the tailgate is open, you have a seat in any case. Most carriers only swing about 100 degrees otherwise the tire or holders run into the side of the car.

And I know having a customer wire something could be a potential nightmare, but with the additional stuff partially covering the lights, I'd really like some additional tail lights in the bumper.

Actually it does not cover the outside lights (the insides are duplicates, but that said, we are looking at LED options for the bumper.

Glad to see you're giving the 100 some love.

Have been for some time. Just trying to make something that people want. The fuel issue is a big one for the later model 100's due to the inability to add a 2nd gas tank easily.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'm sure you've seen the bike racks that slide into the hitch reciever and hold 2-3 bikes. I think they're ugly as hell. So, let's say you have a jerry can holder on one arm and the spare on the other. You can just run it that way or you have the option of adding a piece that bolts to the 2nd swingout on one side and picks up the spare lugs on the other. This piece has arms on it that can hold a couple bikes. You'd have to remvoe it all to open the swing arms and get into the cargo area, but the hitch mount ones aren't any easier.

Just thinking with everyone I see in Moab, they usually bring a bike or two for alternate recreation. If you've got a tent and other crap on top, you can't put them on the roof, and if you've got the spare on the bumper, you can't use the hitch mount style.

 

[jmarlo]

I'm the type of guy that buys this stuff--not because I need it necessarily, but because I want to have it. I recently installed the jerry can carrier on my Kaymar, and really like its functionality and build. However, in order to open the rear window, I need to hold back the jerry (i.e. shove it back inside its carrier) can so it does not scrape the bottom edge of the window door. If I do this I can access the rear window without unlocking and swinging out the jerry can carrier. If I had anything more bulky on the rear, something that extends more vertical to impair the opening of the rear window, such as swing out tire carrier, or a ladder like you are designing, I would not be able to open the rear window without unlocking and opening the swing outs. That to me would be a drawback.

I agree with the above comments that a ladder, for access purposes only, is not necessary, as it is just as easy to climb on the wheels or bumper. But then again I'm tall so its not that big of a deal to me.

I do like the fact that you can store/fasten other gadgets, including additional jerry cans, to the proposed ladder. That is useful, and fairly unique from what I have seen.

Also, I frequently use the 2" receiver for not only my tow ball, but also a bike rack and pintle hitch. For the bike rack, I use an extender which brings the rack back far enough to clear the jerry can carrier. This affords lots of different configurations.

Having said all of that, the only ladders that I have ever liked are the aluminum ones incorporated into the D90 full rack systems. Those work well because of the vertical surface to which they are attached. Obviously apples and oranges compared to the 100.


Its great to see innovation and new ideas. And as a consumer, I appreciate having the option to buy good products from good companies like yours. Keep up the good work.

 

[Dandon]

(...)This could work, but would be limited to use when the tailgate is not open. if the tailgate is open, you have a seat in any case. Most carriers only swing about 100 degrees otherwise the tire or holders run into the side of the car.

This could be a problem if the upper jerrycan holder is offset towards the car. When open at 90-100º, and trying to open the upper tailgate half, it might not clear the holder. I hope you understand what I mean.

 

[sleeoffroad]

This could be a problem if the upper jerrycan holder is offset towards the car. When open at 90-100º, and trying to open the upper tailgate half, it might not clear the holder. I hope you understand what I mean.

Yes, that is one of the problems. If you tilt it in, you have to make the carrier open more.

 

[slimbuddha]

I would say it looks very functional, and I realize it isn't done yet, but so far, I don't like the looks of it. I like the look of the typical bar style. Have you considered keeping the same basic principal, but instead making it more like a skeleton with tubing?

Not sure if that makes sense or not.

I have been wanting a rear bumper.. is the bumper basically the same you are selling now without pivots?

Do you have an idea on pricing yet? Basic, with no attachments, but both pivots? With tire carrier and open 2nd?

I'm not sure how well this would go over here, but I think it would be cool to have a swing out Grill (similar to the ones they put on hitches:

I have another idea for a dual tank scepter/ladder combo, however I think it would be clearer if illustrated. Does anyone know a good of a free/cheap CAD program?

 

[sleeoffroad]

I would say it looks very functional, and I realize it isn't done yet, but so far, I don't like the looks of it. I like the look of the typical bar style. Have you considered keeping the same basic principal, but instead making it more like a skeleton with tubing?

Tubing work gets expensive in a hurry. It is also a lot more difficult to mass produce. These parts are CNC cut and then formed and welded together. That way you get consistent results. Tubing might also look better but it is a pain to attach things to. You are limited to drilling through the tubing, U bolts or tabs welded on.

Not sure if that makes sense or not.

I have been wanting a rear bumper.. is the bumper basically the same you are selling now without pivots?

The base bumper is the same . We currently have a single pivot solution ready to ship.

Do you have an idea on pricing yet? Basic, with no attachments, but both pivots? With tire carrier and open 2nd?

No pricing yet.

I have another idea for a dual tank scepter/ladder combo, however I think it would be clearer if illustrated. Does anyone know a good of a free/cheap CAD program?[/QUOTE]

 

[ginericLC]

I don't think it is beautiful but it definitely looks functional.

The only problem I would see from my point of view is getting a siphon tube in the jerry can nozzle. When I use jerry cans I never lift them full, I'm lazy. I swing open the gate and then siphon the gas into the vehicle's tank with a siphon tube. Maybe you can punch a whole in the side near the opening?

I'm glad to see you are thinking of not centering the rear tire on the bumper. I really wish mine was on the DS, I hate that it is centered as it really makes a huge blind spot. That is my one real gripe with your current offering. And I completely understand why you did it. I just don't like it.

My thought on dealing with the lights is remove them from the lift gate and tailgate. If they are blocked and you get in an accident that would be an easy excuse for a ticket. If they are gone they are no longer a problem. However, I do realize this would be extremely expensive to get the body work done.

 

[sleeoffroad]

I don't think it is beautiful but it definitely looks functional.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder or some such thing.

The only problem I would see from my point of view is getting a siphon tube in the jerry can nozzle. When I use jerry cans I never lift them full, I'm lazy. I swing open the gate and then siphon the gas into the vehicle's tank with a siphon tube. Maybe you can punch a whole in the side near the opening?

We are trying to do that, so that you can also use the water can when still in the holder.

I'm glad to see you are thinking of not centering the rear tire on the bumper. I really wish mine was on the DS, I hate that it is centered as it really makes a huge blind spot. That is my one real gripe with your current offering. And I completely understand why you did it. I just don't like it.

Right now the plan is that the cans are on the left and tire on the right. However we can see if we want to change that.

My thought on dealing with the lights is remove them from the lift gate and tailgate. If they are blocked and you get in an accident that would be an easy excuse for a ticket. If they are gone they are no longer a problem. However, I do realize this would be extremely expensive to get the body work done.

You can get cover plates for the tailgate lights in Japan. Ask Mot, he should be able to get them for you.

 

[subdave]

Just a thought to address the bulkiness comments while keeping your wide steps- make all of the steps fold up like louvers or miniblinds. Folded flat, the whole thing protrudes less and can be made aesthetically pleasing. Possibly spring loaded to fold up when not in use. Connecting bars on either side maybe for handholds. Again, just a thought.

-Dave

 

[ginericLC]

Christo,

Swapping the tire to the DS is something I would want but I don't think everyone would want it. So I wouldn't spend much time seeing if it is feasible unless you plan on making the swingout accessories modular like Luke does. It wouldn't be profitable for you to offer them both ways. Also, swapping the tire to the DS would be a really bad idea for someone wanting to make use of the jerry can holder with a siphon as the tube would have to be really long. How it is now on the DS you can just run the tube around and fill it up with the siphon.

I didn't know about the cover plates, if I could find some reasonably that would be something I would do. Matching white paint is fairly easy.

I'd include wiring looms in the swingouts, I'm adding a back up camera to my swingout on my current 100 bumper (it is one of yours). And I'd like to see a 7 pin trailer plug outlet too. But I have pretty unique needs.

My other wish list is gas charged struts for the swingouts instead of the pins. Right now I have nothing and it is a real PITA. I need to get with you about ordering a pin for mine. We have a local fabricator who is big into the struts and I like how his swingouts open and close. I'd have to completely tear up your swingout design to add a strut. And why screw up a good thing?

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

hard to do cleanly, that was why we went with a ladder on the wheel, and room to stand over it, as here the jerry cans have to be standing up, so they can be used in position as well. The ladder runds are also designed to capture your foot in the corner, so your foot wont slip off.

This type of design could easily have 2 jerrys standing up under it, as a stand alone swing away, with taller storage for shovel etc, or telescopic light pole as well.

The top section was also designed to use a ratchet rope on to hoist the spare up, if running bigger tyres makes it difficult to get onto big lifted trucks.

 

[ckkone]

I would rather see both Jerry cans on the bottom mounted vertically, and above them a smaller less obstructing ladder that leans toward the vehicle. If you have a really good imagination you can see what I mean in my drawing...And what would make me really happy is if whatever you decide on it can be retro fitted to the Slee bumper I have now

 

[sleeoffroad]

Chris, that is a good concept, however the dimension of the cans in that direction makes them stick out really far. Once you do that, you have to raise them a lot to make them not get hung up when you drop of ledges. I will see what I can come up with like that.

As for retrofitting, probably not going to work. The existing swing arm is to wide to accommodate a 2nd swing arm. Then there is also the issue of the spindle.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

Chris, that is a good concept, however the dimension of the cans in that direction makes them stick out really far. Once you do that, you have to raise them a lot to make them not get hung up when you drop of ledges. I will see what I can come up with like that.

Its a common conversion on kaymar carriers here to fit 2 jerrys that way, and keep them out of the departure angle line.

Doesnt stick out any more than a 12.5" tyre on the carrier either.


Also, to retrot, you could make one that fits a jerry either side of the spare in the same orientation, thats what I would do when mine got here

 

[ckkone]

Chris, that is a good concept, however the dimension of the cans in that direction makes them stick out really far. Once you do that, you have to raise them a lot to make them not get hung up when you drop of ledges. I will see what I can come up with like that.

For peeps like me that just like dirt tracks and camping it wouldn't be an issue, but for others that like rocks I can see it being a problem.

 

[ckkone]

Its a common conversion on kaymar carriers here to fit 2 jerrys that way, and keep them out of the departure angle line.

Any pics?

 

[spressomon]

Christo:

Google Sketchup

Google SketchUp - Products

Free or Pro version...

 

[Cruiserdrew]

What is the cost comparison between this ladder thingie, and say a sub tank? I'm thinking a subtank would be cheaper, the engineering is already done by Toyota, and if you just have to have a rear ladder it could be smaller and less bulky. I also know that it isn't hard to scramble up onto the roof rack just using the bumper and spare tire. I've done that many times.