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- #541
Perfect idea on the flow test.
I actually got my filter and head from Princess, I got the Absolute 10 micron Donaldson. I got there smallest as it will make mounting much easier.
Builds Isuzu 4BD1T Lexus LX450 (Land Cruiser) Build (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wheelingnoob
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Perfect idea on the flow test.
I actually got my filter and head from Princess, I got the Absolute 10 micron Donaldson. I got there smallest as it will make mounting much easier.
Hi Jeremy,
Hey, I've been thinking of doing the same thing with both of my trannys for a long time. I actually was planning on using the factory filter for the later NPR with the AW450 tranny since it is essentially the same transmission. I was worried about restriction as well and thought about installing a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the filter so I could monitor flow over time. But if you work out this bypass system it may end up being a better setup.
Good luck with it and let us know how it works out.
I may install mine first and then if you get yours worked out switch it to your system later. The factory screen is pretty dismal for filtering out small particulate as evidenced by the numerous valve bodies that I have disassembled that have had a lot of clutch and steel dust in them that got by the factory filter.
Don
Hey, I've been thinking of doing the same thing with both of my trannys for a long time. I actually was planning on using the factory filter for the later NPR with the AW450 tranny since it is essentially the same transmission. I was worried about restriction as well and thought about installing a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the filter so I could monitor flow over time. But if you work out this bypass system it may end up being a better setup.
Good luck with it and let us know how it works out.
I may install mine first and then if you get yours worked out switch it to your system later. The factory screen is pretty dismal for filtering out small particulate as evidenced by the numerous valve bodies that I have disassembled that have had a lot of clutch and steel dust in them that got by the factory filter.
Don
- Thread starter
- #543
Sounds good Don! I had thought about using one of the Isuzu filters for the trans but was not able to find one. I got this filter and 10u filter for $18 and replacement filters are only $7 so easy to get replacements.
Im going to get the trans and engine mounted then work on this as a Bypass setup for filtering. I hope this will keep the fluid clean and prevent the plugging up of the VB. The stock "filter" is far from it. Just want to make sure this bypass will be filtering enough of the fluid to be worth wile.
Ill fully document the setup when done.
Im going to get the trans and engine mounted then work on this as a Bypass setup for filtering. I hope this will keep the fluid clean and prevent the plugging up of the VB. The stock "filter" is far from it. Just want to make sure this bypass will be filtering enough of the fluid to be worth wile.
Ill fully document the setup when done.
- Thread starter
- #544
I was able to get a few things done today. I started with removing the coolant temp sensors and the oil pressure sender.
Here is the Toyota coolant sensor next to the Isuzu, they both have the same threads so the toyota one threaded right into the Isuzu.
I then started trying to amalgamate the early and late shifter assemblies.
The 91-92 shifter is laid out in a PRND32L and I need that for my A440.
The 93-97 shifter is PRND2L but its got a O/D button on the shifter and a leather wrapped handle.
So I needed to swap the shifter handle and shifter rod off the 93-97 to the 91-92 base. I needed to do this because the plates have a notched keyway that locks the shifters in gear. The one on the 91-92 has a longer detent for the ND3 gate so you can move the shifter with out pressing the button. So once the shifter was swapped over I also had to swap the shift lock relay assembly over its got a different plug on the truck harness side but the rest on the shifter side all match.
Here are the two side by side.
Here is the hybrid shifter.
Once the shifter was done I needed to replace the rubber seal between the shifter arm and outside of the trans tunnel. The one on the 91-92 shifter I got was trashed but fortunately the 93-97 one was good. So I removed them both in preparation for getting the good one on my new shifter.
So with that all done I now have one item checked off the list. I plan to use the O/D button on the shifter to control a cool feature of my new VB.
Here is the Toyota coolant sensor next to the Isuzu, they both have the same threads so the toyota one threaded right into the Isuzu.
I then started trying to amalgamate the early and late shifter assemblies.
The 91-92 shifter is laid out in a PRND32L and I need that for my A440.
The 93-97 shifter is PRND2L but its got a O/D button on the shifter and a leather wrapped handle.
So I needed to swap the shifter handle and shifter rod off the 93-97 to the 91-92 base. I needed to do this because the plates have a notched keyway that locks the shifters in gear. The one on the 91-92 has a longer detent for the ND3 gate so you can move the shifter with out pressing the button. So once the shifter was swapped over I also had to swap the shift lock relay assembly over its got a different plug on the truck harness side but the rest on the shifter side all match.
Here are the two side by side.
Here is the hybrid shifter.
Once the shifter was done I needed to replace the rubber seal between the shifter arm and outside of the trans tunnel. The one on the 91-92 shifter I got was trashed but fortunately the 93-97 one was good. So I removed them both in preparation for getting the good one on my new shifter.
So with that all done I now have one item checked off the list. I plan to use the O/D button on the shifter to control a cool feature of my new VB.
- Thread starter
- #545
Had some spare time this morning so I registered the truck as a diesel. Very easy here just walk in tell them the registration you hand them needs to be changed to diesel fuel, walk out 5min later with diesel reg.
- Thread starter
- #547
Man, I wish it was that easy here in the states to swap the registration to diesel! I wonder what cool feature you'll be controlling with that O/D button? ...
Yeah I had done my research pre swap to make sure there would be no issues. My AirCare (smog) is good trough 2015 so all that needed changing was fuel designation. Even if I needed to get AirCare its only an Opacity test on Diesel pre 2007. Glad it was that easy to be honest.
Yep should be a cool feature that the O/D button activates when done.
Today my stock engine got picked up so I now have room in the shop to work on the transmission and engine. I also got the OME 2.5" lift out and ready for my buddy. Got the 4" Slee springs in the back as well as a extended break line. Also put a 2x4 on end in the front to simulate 4" bump stop extensions, looks like too much so going to try 2-3" for now.
Tomorrow I plan to get the transmission back together and the adapter bolted up with Isuzu bell. Got all the bolts I needed for that now. Once its all bolted on the stock converter will be put in place and a measurement taken. Then a measurement taken of the back of the Isuzu engine will be added on to give us our converter adapter depth. From there its back to the CNC man.
Once that is done I'll pull the converter and bolt the trans and engine together so I can start mockup. First step is getting the two into the bay for a test fit.
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- Thread starter
- #548
So today was a day of small projects. I was able to get my VB back onto the transmission and the transmission back right side up. Then I was able to bolt on my adapter and bell. From there I test fit my converter and ran into my first issue. When I first measured my clearance I guess the converter was not seated in all the way. So I needed to clearance the Isuzu bell flange a bit, needed to take off about 2mm on a 45* angle.
Once the converter was fit I was able to work on the shifter. I need to clearance the adapter to allow the shifter to go into first gear. It contacts the adapter plate just enough to prevent it from going into gear. I need to mill off about 5mm to allow it to go into gear and not contact. Not a big deal but needs to be attended too.
My machinist is coming over tonight to measure things up and come up with a plan for the converter adapter. We have two possible ways of doing it so well see what makes more sense.
Once the converter was fit I was able to work on the shifter. I need to clearance the adapter to allow the shifter to go into first gear. It contacts the adapter plate just enough to prevent it from going into gear. I need to mill off about 5mm to allow it to go into gear and not contact. Not a big deal but needs to be attended too.
My machinist is coming over tonight to measure things up and come up with a plan for the converter adapter. We have two possible ways of doing it so well see what makes more sense.
I'm pretty interested in seeing how that valve body performs. What is its special feature? Or is that a surprise your saving?
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- #550
Yes I'm looking forward to see how it works.
My machinist came over tonight and we have hatched a plan for the converter adapter. Should work out very good and be all bolt in, so no need to have anything modified on the trans, converter or engine. There will be a slight bit of grinding needed on the bell where it bolts to the adapter for convert clearance. But nothing big, took me 5min. Its going to use the factory 3FE flex plate so as far as that connection (converter to flex plate) is concerned its factory.
Looked at the wiring between the early trans and the late trans my truck had and most of it plugged in. All the CDL wiring plugs directly in as does the speed sensor. Only thing different is the early harness also has the trans temp warning light sensor wired in it. The later one its part of the O2 wiring.
All the wiring plugs into the main engine harness so I will be going trough all that once the engine had been test fit.
My machinist came over tonight and we have hatched a plan for the converter adapter. Should work out very good and be all bolt in, so no need to have anything modified on the trans, converter or engine. There will be a slight bit of grinding needed on the bell where it bolts to the adapter for convert clearance. But nothing big, took me 5min. Its going to use the factory 3FE flex plate so as far as that connection (converter to flex plate) is concerned its factory.
Looked at the wiring between the early trans and the late trans my truck had and most of it plugged in. All the CDL wiring plugs directly in as does the speed sensor. Only thing different is the early harness also has the trans temp warning light sensor wired in it. The later one its part of the O2 wiring.
All the wiring plugs into the main engine harness so I will be going trough all that once the engine had been test fit.
O/D button controlling the 3rd gear torque convertor lockup?
So the v/b mod going to be for sale after testing I'm holding out for this higher hush mod . Funny how open you are about everything else. Or is longbow making them now ,I'm ready especially if it an electric controlled lockout for each gear. John (ateb) has his on the overdrive button on the shifter too, sweet setup its like a gear splitter with no heat generated. So jealous.
Hey just a heads up on the flex plate, I wanted something for the a442 once for a bell houseing mock up so went to Steve at ebi and he had sold every flex plate to someone because he kept cracking them with his cummins conversion, if I remember correctly . Might want to ask him the issues and fix was just in case it might be a problem for you , especially with direct torque in lower gears you have potential to produce if your v/b can do what I think it can do.
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- #554
Yes its full control of lock up in all gears. I will be using my O/D button to control it. The Vb also had a full extreme treatment as well. Im looking forward to trying it all out once its done and on the road. You are right it is effectively like a range splitter and will help keep the transmission cool. Just need to be careful i do not put too much power through the lockup clutch pack.
I have heard of flex plates cracking, most the ones I have heard of breaking where due too slight misaligned adapters. The Isuzu flex plate is the same thickness material as the Toyota and general design. So Im hoping that with everything in line it will be ok. I will get a spare and carry it on long trips just incase though till I feel confident it will hold...or not.
I have heard of flex plates cracking, most the ones I have heard of breaking where due too slight misaligned adapters. The Isuzu flex plate is the same thickness material as the Toyota and general design. So Im hoping that with everything in line it will be ok. I will get a spare and carry it on long trips just incase though till I feel confident it will hold...or not.
Wasn't me, I replaced a few but they were all from existing modded parts, and I think the issue may have been misalignment from the adapter they built.
I do have a flexplate off a 13BT I think, actually it was bought from a member of the RMLCA, I think it was for an A440 or an A442, and I have one from a cummins, I think I paid $100 or $150 for the 13BT (used in calgary) and $350 for the cummins flex plate (new). If anyone needs one feel free to make an offer.
Actually, I wonder if it was the previous owner, you should ask steve who/where he sold them to. My 80 ran fine with no issues whatsoever for a couple years, then it sounded really really bad while wheeling, I thought the engine was majorly destroyed but the flex plate broke into two pieces near the crank bolts, it sheared so that it was held in place so it kept spinning the TC, but made a horrible racket, fixed and modded the flexplate two more times after that then went to the AA split case adapter and a NV4500, been leaking trans oil from somewhere around that adapter slightly ever since despite pulling the t-case off two or three times.
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- #556
Thanks Cody, you are the one I was thinking of that had issues with the flex plate. I hope I do not have the same issues, everything I have done so far is true and should spin with no wobbles.
Today was a big milestone. I got the engine and transmission mated up and stabbed the assembly into the truck. Took a bunch of up down left right but we got it in. The hardest part was getting the angle right. I finally got the engine at 7* to the passenger side. Gave me tones of room on the turbo side, very happy about that. The issue is on the passenger side, the throttle bracket is right tight up to the fire wall. I have about .5" of clearance and I cant get the throttle to full without the lever hitting the firewall as well. I also have the crank centerline over to the drivers side about 1.5" from center. I mistakenly did not measure the stock engine centerline and Im kicking my self now. It looks like the transmission is straight looking at it laying on my side so not very accurate but its very close.
I think I am going to set the engine at 5*, it still gives me the lots of room on the exhaust side and decent room on the throttle bracket. I'm still going to gently message the fire wall a little just to give me a little more room. The good news is the transmission is bolted onto the rear cross member and the engine is not jammed into the firewall. I got lots of room for a turbo intake keeping the turbo rear facing. I should also have room for a 3" down pipe. My p/s pump feed clears the cross brace for the panhard bar by about 1-1.5". I am going to have a tough time making the frame side motor mounts but should jot be too bad. The factory ones push the engine 5" higher than it needs to be and will not work so they are getting cut off.
Drivers side:
Mount
Starter
Turbo, I have 5" of clearance on the booster even though the pic looks like its right on top of it.
Passenger side:
Throttle bracket
Too close for comfort here. That was with the engine pushed as far over as I could to try an center it.
Engine mount
P/S pump clearance
Oil pan to drag link clearance. This is with 2" bump stop extensions.
All of my engine fitting is being done with no front springs or shocks so I can get everything set at full bump. Even at full bump I have lots of room for the oil filters and front driveshaft clearance. Was very happy I raised them 4", I probably could have got away with 2.5-3" but am happy to have the clearance.
So overall today was a great day, got lots done and confirmed a few ideas.
Today was a big milestone. I got the engine and transmission mated up and stabbed the assembly into the truck. Took a bunch of up down left right but we got it in. The hardest part was getting the angle right. I finally got the engine at 7* to the passenger side. Gave me tones of room on the turbo side, very happy about that. The issue is on the passenger side, the throttle bracket is right tight up to the fire wall. I have about .5" of clearance and I cant get the throttle to full without the lever hitting the firewall as well. I also have the crank centerline over to the drivers side about 1.5" from center. I mistakenly did not measure the stock engine centerline and Im kicking my self now. It looks like the transmission is straight looking at it laying on my side so not very accurate but its very close.
I think I am going to set the engine at 5*, it still gives me the lots of room on the exhaust side and decent room on the throttle bracket. I'm still going to gently message the fire wall a little just to give me a little more room. The good news is the transmission is bolted onto the rear cross member and the engine is not jammed into the firewall. I got lots of room for a turbo intake keeping the turbo rear facing. I should also have room for a 3" down pipe. My p/s pump feed clears the cross brace for the panhard bar by about 1-1.5". I am going to have a tough time making the frame side motor mounts but should jot be too bad. The factory ones push the engine 5" higher than it needs to be and will not work so they are getting cut off.
Drivers side:
Mount
Starter
Turbo, I have 5" of clearance on the booster even though the pic looks like its right on top of it.
Passenger side:
Throttle bracket
Too close for comfort here. That was with the engine pushed as far over as I could to try an center it.
Engine mount
P/S pump clearance
Oil pan to drag link clearance. This is with 2" bump stop extensions.
All of my engine fitting is being done with no front springs or shocks so I can get everything set at full bump. Even at full bump I have lots of room for the oil filters and front driveshaft clearance. Was very happy I raised them 4", I probably could have got away with 2.5-3" but am happy to have the clearance.
So overall today was a great day, got lots done and confirmed a few ideas.
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Looks good!
Test fitting the the engine/trans with all the assys mounted and the suspension collapsed is the best way, no surprises later. The only consideration may be articulation and twist can make things move.
I found on my swap, that when twisted, the safety tangs on the stock Isuzu mount could touch the top of the diff. Took me a couple of tries to find this one. I could hear it, but not find any evidence of what was hitting.
If you remember a 60/4BD1 swap by DAZED, he modified the pump outlet to allow for some extra clearance and it worked out well.
Doug
Test fitting the the engine/trans with all the assys mounted and the suspension collapsed is the best way, no surprises later. The only consideration may be articulation and twist can make things move.
I found on my swap, that when twisted, the safety tangs on the stock Isuzu mount could touch the top of the diff. Took me a couple of tries to find this one. I could hear it, but not find any evidence of what was hitting.
If you remember a 60/4BD1 swap by DAZED, he modified the pump outlet to allow for some extra clearance and it worked out well.
Doug
Cool, your gonna use the factory motor mounts? Looks like you could use the one side, and maybe extend or use a different mount on the other. I wonder if the longer 3B mount would bolt onto that thing.
I assume your using factory OEM isuzu bushings? I picked up a set of the liquid filled ones from rock auto for my mounts and I think they are going to work well for my 3BTT
I assume your using factory OEM isuzu bushings? I picked up a set of the liquid filled ones from rock auto for my mounts and I think they are going to work well for my 3BTT
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- #559
Hi Doug,
Thanks for checking out my swap. Yours was a real motivator for mine.
I have the truck on a hoist so I can easily manipulate the axle under the truck. I could not find any position where the clearances got worse, at full stuff on each side the clearance actually got better on the pan for the drag link. The hi pinion front diff did move slightly closer to the pan but I still had more than an inch of clearance. On the 80 series that bar you see right below the P/S pump is actually a cross member on the frame so its static at all times. I thing the gap I have there should be plenty for the engine movement.
For the safety tang on the Isuzu mount I actually plan to spin that mount 180*so the tag is out the top not the bottom. It should still do its job of keeping the mount together should it break but gives me 2" more axle clearance. Hope that will work?
Yep I plan to use the factory Isuzu mounts, they are thick and allow engine movement to absorb the vibrations. They are also captive so if one fails it will not allow the engine to flop around.
My worry with the liquid filled ones is I think they need to be almost flat if I remember correctly? not sure I have the room on the passenger side to make mounts that would accommodate that. I'm hoping I can just cut off the stock frame mounts and make some new ones out of some squire stock. Going to get some material today and give it a go tomorrow.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
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