Interesting thoughts from Toyota regarding the 250 in this week’s Automotive News

[malden]

Miller Brewing Co made a boatload of money way back when selling soda water “enhanced” beer as real beer. How did they do it? They got a bunch of surrogates, influencers, shills and celebs to incessantly pound two ideas into the buying publics head to sell watered down beer for more money than the real thing: “Miller Lite Tastes Great, It’s Less Filling.” Miller made huge margins and a fortune selling water for beer. Brilliant.

Does any of this sound familiar to you guys? Because it has been fifty pages now on about three threads that the same four or five guys here when queried about the watered down model 250 always, and often ferociously, hammer the same two things: “The 250, it runs great and it’s less filling at the pump!” If I had a buck for every time these guys go back to this same senseless jingle. Well the guys selling water for beer had no other arguments. And the guys here selling 250s for Landcruisers have no arguments either.

These threads are getting pretty tedious thanks to these guys but let’s lift our glasses in good cheer and chant in unison: “The Toyota 250, it runs great, and it’s less filling at the pump!” No one has driven the damn thing, but that does not matter: “The Toyota 250, it runs great, and it’s less filling at the pump!”

Hint: If you feel like your’e being played, buy a GX460 in Nori Green Blackline before its too late! At least it’s not watered down.

 

[Land Caesar]

add 35s /Gears and 2000lbs of bolt on bumpers/fridges/roofracks and 4bung expresso machines and this Landcruiser will be just like all its predecessors.....12-13mpg

Or… Skinny 33’s with a set of aluminum sliders, a 100 pound aluminum front bumper and 200 pound rear with a Gfc slim Rtt

That would be low 20’s mpg and be a great benifit for those who do a good bit of Overland traveling, compared to 12pm of other older models.

Some do not need a Massively heavy, v8 gas hog that can Rock crawl.


Oh and Yes…
Less filling , fuel efficient is a great attribute to the New Prado 250 for those that do more overland traveling than Offroad technical driving of rocks and extreme 4wheeling.

View attachment 3428919


Miller Brewing Co made a boatload of money way back when selling soda water “enhanced” beer as real beer. How did they do it? They got a bunch of surrogates, influencers, shills and celebs to incessantly pound two ideas into the buying publics head to sell watered down beer for more money than the real thing: “Miller Lite Tastes Great, It’s Less Filling.” Miller made huge margins and a fortune selling water for beer. Brilliant.

Does any of this sound familiar to you guys? Because it has been fifty pages now on about three threads that the same four or five guys here when queried about the watered down model 250 always, and often ferociously, hammer the same two things: “The 250, it runs great and it’s less filling at the pump!” If I had a buck for every time these guys go back to this same senseless jingle. Well the guys selling water for beer had no other arguments. And the guys here selling 250s for Landcruisers have no arguments either.

These threads are getting pretty tedious thanks to these guys but let’s lift our glasses in good cheer and chant in unison: “The Toyota 250, it runs great, and it’s less filling at the pump!” No one has driven the damn thing, but that does not matter: “The Toyota 250, it runs great, and it’s less filling at the pump!”

Hint: If you feel like your’e being played, buy a GX460 in Nori Green Blackline before its too late! At least it’s not watered down.

 

[TWILLY]

View attachment 3428919


Miller Brewing Co made a boatload of money way back when selling soda water “enhanced” beer as real beer. How did they do it? They got a bunch of surrogates, influencers, shills and celebs to incessantly pound two ideas into the buying publics head to sell watered down beer for more money than the real thing: “Miller Lite Tastes Great, It’s Less Filling.” Miller made huge margins and a fortune selling water for beer. Brilliant.

Does any of this sound familiar to you guys? Because it has been fifty pages now on about three threads that the same four or five guys here when queried about the watered down model 250 always, and often ferociously, hammer the same two things: “The 250, it runs great and it’s less filling at the pump!” If I had a buck for every time these guys go back to this same senseless jingle. Well the guys selling water for beer had no other arguments. And the guys here selling 250s for Landcruisers have no arguments either.

These threads are getting pretty tedious thanks to these guys but let’s lift our glasses in good cheer and chant in unison: “The Toyota 250, it runs great, and it’s less filling at the pump!” No one has driven the damn thing, but that does not matter: “The Toyota 250, it runs great, and it’s less filling at the pump!”

Hint: If you feel like your’e being played, buy a GX460 in Nori Green Blackline before its too late! At least it’s not watered down.

Why does Land Cruiser 250 make you so mad?

 

[Hiluxforever]

Why does Land Cruiser 250 make you so mad?

It's performative.

 

[TWILLY]

It's performative.

How, specifically?

What of its attributes makes it so for you?

Or, do you mean that the upset is performative?

Or… Both.

 

[Hiluxforever]

How, specifically?

What of its attributes makes it so for you?

Or, do you mean that the upset is performative?

Or… Both.

The upset is performative.

 

[Leelanau]

Why does Land Cruiser 250 make you so mad?

I didn’t sense any anger from @malden’s humorous post. Do you often think people with opinions different than your own are angry?

 

[Jstawgn]

Interesting thing about the origin of 70 series lite are devopped as lifestyle vehicle for people that want the tough image of land Cuiser while providing better comfort and more economical to operate.

The HD land cruiser 70 series still use rear leaf spring to this day. They are pretry rough to drive everyday for most people.

For pople coming from 100-200 series, yes they might feel downgraded with land cruiser lite. Every new model normally it goes up market with more features and class. To come up with lower priced one can be felt like a downgrade.

For me I always prefer the smaller, lighter and nimble prado. And this 250 improve most of the issue with current prado.

 

[m4hk33]

Why does Land Cruiser 250 make you so mad?

I think the stuff that we are seeing here is the same stuff that goes most online communities. People tend to get emotionally attached to stuff that they spent money on and do so to reinforce their decision. Its ok to like more than one thing, just as its ok if what a manufacture is selling is not in line with what you need.

My other hobbie is guns and shooting and I am getting a kick out of the back in forth regarding a recent contract award where one side feels that rifles is the best rifle on earth and the other side, says, looks decent but feels a little expensive.

Personally, I think the 250 looks decent. I like the power plant of the GX and I like cargo area/efficiency of the LC. I think this really all comes down to what is the actual availability of either of these models and where they are being priced at. If toyota can't keep up with demand, and we continue to see long lead times and a heavy ADM by dealers, I have to pass.

 

[m4hk33]

Hopefully all of the dealer fees and markups go away soon. Once supply is back it'll go back to a normal competitive market. We already see it at the domestic dealers for most products. $10k off MSRP is pretty common on domestic trucks again. It's remarkable how quickly the pricing power flipped.

TSRP should be MSRP. MSRP should be the actual suggested price. And it should include everything except taxes. That's why it's called a "retail" price, not a wholesale FOB purchase.

This...

while we all have our preferences, I think these dealer adjustments end up pushing people into vehicles that they may have not considered previously. If we are talking retail to retail, I am willing to pay a premium for Toyotas reputation for reliability. If we are talking a 10k to15k premium, well that ends up pushing me into other platforms that would not be my first choice. This could mean from a LC to a Tundra, or F150 Raptor, or 4runner or a Bronco or even a 10 year old GX for 15k. I really have no clue

Hell, working in Kuwait, I've recently thrown around the idea of importing a Nissan Y61 Patrol Super safari as they are just coming into eligibility and can be found all day for around 4 grand. Add 2800 for import as a project vehicle, I've seen two with LS2 (GM 6.0 V8) swaps for going for around 10k.

 

[Hiluxforever]

This...

while we all have our preferences, I think these dealer adjustments end up pushing people into vehicles that they may have not considered previously. If we are talking retail to retail, I am willing to pay a premium for Toyotas reputation for reliability. If we are talking a 10k to15k premium, well that ends up pushing me into other platforms that would not be my first choice. This could mean from a LC to a Tundra, or F150 Raptor, or 4runner or a Bronco or even a 10 year old GX for 15k. I really have no clue

Hell, working in Kuwait, I've recently thrown around the idea of importing a Nissan Y61 Patrol Super safari as they are just coming into eligibility and can be found all day for around 4 grand. Add 2800 for import as a project vehicle, I've seen two with LS2 (GM 6.0 V8) swaps for going for around 10k.

This

I was shopping for a Tacoma and ended up with a GX because when I made the purchase, a 4Runner or Tacoma had to be bought sight unseen.

 

[M1911]

while we all have our preferences, I think these dealer adjustments end up pushing people into vehicles that they may have not considered previously.

I was just at the local Toyota dealer to order some parts. Their new car lot is basically empty. They used to have several hundred new vehicles in stock. Now they got less than 70. Which means more ADM.

 

[Cablebandit]

Do the Toyota's that are in states outside the SE and Gulf coast distributers have the same type of distributer add-on's?
Also how is Lexus when it comes to ADMs? I've looks online where I'm at (PA) and I don't see anything over sticker. Granted, something like the GX550 isn't out there yet, but I was just curious for when the time comes.

I also will NOT EVER pay a dealership anything over MSRP. We only have consumers to blame for these insane dealer markups.

 

[M1911]

Do the Toyota's that are in states outside the SE and Gulf coast distributers have the same type of distributer add-on's?
Also how is Lexus when it comes to ADMs? I've looks online where I'm at (PA) and I don't see anything over sticker. Granted, something like the GX550 isn't out there yet, but I was just curious for when the time comes.

I also will NOT EVER pay a dealership anything over MSRP. We only have consumers to blame for these insane dealer markups.

Outside of SE and Gulf Coast, Toyota does its own distribution. While you may see some accessories, it is my impression that they have fewer accessories packed on than SE and Gulf Coast.

If you want to be the first on the block with a new Toyota or Lexus, you are likely going to pay ADM, given the shortage of Toyota and Lexus vehicles. The more patient you are, the less likely you are to have to pay ADM.

 

[Cablebandit]

No need to be first, but my 2001 Tundra is slowly returning to the earth via rust and we have annual inspections here unfortunately so I know it will be in the next year or two at the latest.

 

[M1911]

No need to be first, but my 2001 Tundra is slowly returning to the earth via rust and we have annual inspections here unfortunately so I know it will be in the next year or two at the latest.

Been there. I’m amazed your 2001 frame hasn’t completely dissolved.

 

[NTTD]

They are allowing dealers to place additional dealer markup right below the TSRP on the dealers online inventory web page...those web sites are built and maintained by Toyota so each dealer has a similar looking website and the inventory auto populates.

This is a fair point and does imply that Toyota is complicit. Still they want to continue selling cars and the only way is through those dealers like it or not.

I blame those who are actually paying those crazy markups more than I blame the dealers.

Exactly this is it plain and simple. We are a free market economy. These dealers mark it up BECAUSE THEY CAN plain and simple.

If the collective "we" stopped buying, prices would fall. That's how it works. It's not "unfair", it's not "fair", it just "IS".

Toyota was just as popular before the pandemic and back then my local dealer would have had at least a couple hundred vehicles in inventory. Now he’s got less than 70. Something is going on with the supply of Toyotas that I simply don’t understand.

You don't understand how supply has been affected?! You are joking, yes?

Factories, distributors, logistics, entire industries, came to a halt. Many small/medium companies with thin margins completely went out of business. Demand and production came to an immediate halt, something completely unprecedented at this scale.

Then at one point, an almost immediate increase of demand. Supply chains completely broke down with the switch in demand. Add to that there's a significant couple year lag for everything to get to capacity again due to the aforementioned issues. We are towards the end of that lag.

 

[desmocruiser]

Outside of SE and Gulf Coast, Toyota does its own distribution. While you may see some accessories, it is my impression that they have fewer accessories packed on than SE and Gulf Coast.

If you want to be the first on the block with a new Toyota or Lexus, you are likely going to pay ADM, given the shortage of Toyota and Lexus vehicles. The more patient you are, the less likely you are to have to pay ADM.

Correct the distributors add accessories, some unique and non Toyota (fewer today) to their orders at Port (where vehicles go prior to truck/train shipping to dealers). The remaining have factory accessories you can add at allocation that are occasionally factory installed but mostly port installed and there are additional ( and some of the same) accessories that can be dealer added, there are some dealers who will add non factory accessories, however this is not as common today.

Being said, as demonstrated by the full Tacoma debut, offering a much larger catalog of accessories will be a HUGE part of the 250, Tacoma, and eventually 4Runner products.

 

[jayp2]

Interesting thing about the origin of 70 series lite are devopped as lifestyle vehicle for people that want the tough image of land Cuiser while providing better comfort and more economical to operate.

The HD land cruiser 70 series still use rear leaf spring to this day. They are pretry rough to drive everyday for most people.

For pople coming from 100-200 series, yes they might feel downgraded with land cruiser lite. Every new model normally it goes up market with more features and class. To come up with lower priced one can be felt like a downgrade.

For me I always prefer the smaller, lighter and nimble prado. And this 250 improve most of the issue with current prado.

I just spent the last 10 days on vacation up in the mountains in my diesel 77 that has leaf springs on all 4 corners.

Nothing rough about it......even the GF happily rides in the 77 for hours on end without so much as a hint of complaint.

Its certainly not a 4Runner.....but the 4Runner is also no where near as capable as my 77.

I still think its a huge mistake on the part of toyota to fail so utterly and completely to provide one or more 70 series competitors to Ford Bronco and Jeep's offerrings that sell hundreds of thousands of units every year.

 

[jayp2]

Correct the distributors add accessories, some unique and non Toyota (fewer today) to their orders at Port (where vehicles go prior to truck/train shipping to dealers). The remaining have factory accessories you can add at allocation that are occasionally factory installed but mostly port installed and there are additional ( and some of the same) accessories that can be dealer added, there are some dealers who will add non factory accessories, however this is not as common today.

Being said, as demonstrated by the full Tacoma debut, offering a much larger catalog of accessories will be a HUGE part of the 250, Tacoma, and eventually 4Runner products.

Dont hold your breath

I'm sure there will be limited offerings of accessories but the only thing that drives that development is sales

The 5-10k units that Toyota is going to sell annually before it tanks and gets pulled from the US market <again> arent enough to drive companies to develop them

Its apples and peas comparison with the tacoma which sells huge numbers of units every year