Kai from Tinker's Adventure thoughts on the new 250 series (2 Viewers)

[Rednexus]

I think the GX would be mostly a non-issue once you get some 35s or 37's on it and a bit of armor. In stock form - it's probably going to leave a lot of paint and plastic on the rocks on anything much beyond a fire roads.

Once nice thing about the older rigs is how good the geometry is with 33s and a 2-3" lift. I have 13" under my front skids and the sliders are knee high (never have hit then on anything). The off-road geometry is better than a 4-door JK with the same tires and mild lift. The back could be better, but a bumper would fix that. 37" is a LOT of tire and will have significant changes for the negative in acceleration and braking compared to a 33", plus the extra weight can over-stress things.

That being said, I could still see a 550 in my future due to the unicorn combination of a 9k tow capacity and wheel-ability. That could allow comfortable towing on a 6k camper, which the older rigs could never do ( sans a 200).

 

[Phillyd2]

In early 5th Gen 4Rs they managed to offer a Trail version of with much less plastic than the Limited but they were too lazy to do so for the OT and there’s no way to spin that to anything other than a shame. It’s now up to the aftermarket to offer alternatives.

But with more people concerned about car seat fitment and vents for the pup, we will see if there’s even a market for it.

 

[Jetboy]

Once nice thing about the older rigs is how good the geometry is with 33s and a 2-3" lift. I have 13" under my front skids and the sliders are knee high (never have hit then on anything). The off-road geometry is better than a 4-door JK with the same tires and mild lift. The back could be better, but a bumper would fix that. 37" is a LOT of tire and will have significant changes for the negative in acceleration and braking compared to a 33", plus the extra weight can over-stress things.

That being said, I could still see a 550 in my future due to the unicorn combination of a 9k tow capacity and wheel-ability. That could allow comfortable towing on a 6k camper, which the older rigs could never do ( sans a 200).

The rear is really hard to fix without moving the tire to the door. You have to keep a minimum of about 40 inches from the rear axle to the rear bumper cover to have room for a spare tire underneath plus the rear crossmember, foam crush cushion, and rear bumper skin. And it's something you can't fix easily with bigger tires because you have to extend that length by the full tire height while the ride height only goes up by half. And then you've got to balance the ground to bumper height with the interior deck height. I think that is pretty well optimized as best they can with the tire underneath. The only real fix is a tire on the back but then you also have to use a sideways opening door and it seems that the core customer (soccer moms) don't want that.

The front of the GX550 seems to be purely a styling choice. There's nothing mechanical that necessitates that long overhang. The biggest negative I see in the GA-F models is the deep compromise of function in favor of form. Long hoods, small cabins, high belt lines are the default. The LC/GX did better in the window department. But the long hood cab back design language stinks for cabin space and forward visibility. And it results in pretty poor approach angles.

None of those issues are inherent in the GA-F platform. I think a new 4door FJ Cruiser could fix all of the issues. Stick the tire on the back door, use the same 112" wb, cut 8-10 inches of dead space off the front, cut 4-6 inches off the back. Boxy styling. $35k entry price. Winner.

 

[NinjahGoose]

None of those issues are inherent in the GA-F platform. I think a new 4door FJ Cruiser could fix all of the issues. Stick the tire on the back door, use the same 112" wb, cut 8-10 inches of dead space off the front, cut 4-6 inches off the back. Boxy styling. $35k entry price. Winner.

This right here! I'm still at a loss as to why the 6th Gen 4Runner wasn't shrunk to become a Bronco and Wrangler direct competitor. Aka, become a modern FJ Cruiser. My wife and talk about it frequently, the FJ Cruiser was ahead of its time by about a decade.

 

[Jetboy]

This right here! I'm still at a loss as to why the 6th Gen 4Runner wasn't shrunk to become a Bronco and Wrangler direct competitor. Aka, become a modern FJ Cruiser. My wife and talk about it frequently, the FJ Cruiser was ahead of its time by about a decade.

I still keep seeing rumors that a new FJ Cruiser is coming. Not sure if I believe it. But it think it would be a popular model.

Toyota made the concept Compact Cruiser thing. The dimensions and angles look right to me. But I'm pretty confident that it doesn't have a spare tire unless maybe it's a doughnut fit somehow under the rear seats or something.

I hate to admit it, but Jeep kinda nailed it with the Recon.

 

[turbo8]

I've been wondering when we will be getting more information about this silhouette.

 

[NinjahGoose]

I still keep seeing rumors that a new FJ Cruiser is coming. Not sure if I believe it. But it think it would be a popular model.

Toyota made the concept Compact Cruiser thing. The dimensions and angles look right to me. But I'm pretty confident that it doesn't have a spare tire unless maybe it's a doughnut fit somehow under the rear seats or something.
View attachment 3740977

I hate to admit it, but Jeep kinda nailed it with the Recon.
View attachment 3740985

I just wish they stuck with the iconic Jeep round headlights instead of going with a modern front end. If this thing has the a solid 350 mile range, and isn't priced through the roof, it's going to put a hurting on Rivian. At least until the Scout comes along.

I've been wondering when we will be getting more information about this silhouette.
View attachment 3740991

I've been thinking about the same thing, that and where the hell is the Tacoma EV. @Jetboy and I discussed it another thread, I think it's because Toyota has these models prepped and is waiting for their battery tech.

 

[Heckraiser]

The GX and LC250 are only about 200lbs lighter than the 200

Where are you getting this number? Toyota lists 250 curb weight at 5360-5445 (probably depending on seating and options). C&D weighed their 2018 LC at 5934 (couldn't find the toyota spec). Google says 5815. either way, that's more like 400-600 pounds difference.

Lexus lists the GX550 as 5585-5710 depending on options, so that's closer to the 200lbs you mention. But then, the LX570 is a couple hundred pounds heavier than the standard LC200.

 

[MRego]

I think a new 4door FJ Cruiser could fix all of the issues. Stick the tire on the back door, use the same 112" wb, cut 8-10 inches of dead space off the front, cut 4-6 inches off the back. Boxy styling. $35k entry price. Winner.

You guys have to accept. The new 4 door FJ Cruiser is the entry level 1958 LC PRADO. Have you seen them side by side? Look like twins. There is no way Toyota will introduce yet another rig in this crazy mix between PRADO, GX550 and 6th gen 4runner.

 

[Jeremy556]

Where are you getting this number? Toyota lists 250 curb weight at 5360-5445 (probably depending on seating and options). C&D weighed their 2018 LC at 5934 (couldn't find the toyota spec). Google says 5815. either way, that's more like 400-600 pounds difference.

Lexus lists the GX550 as 5585-5710 depending on options, so that's closer to the 200lbs you mention. But then, the LX570 is a couple hundred pounds heavier than the standard LC200.

There is definitely a lot of discrepancy for listed curb weights, especially with Toyota.com having very inaccurate info (they just updated it from saying 5038lbs for the last year). My weights were based off these two articles:

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/land-cruiser/specs/2020/toyota_land-cruiser_toyota-land-cruiser_2020

2020 LC200 5815lb

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser: What We Know So Far

For those who bemoaned the death of the Land Cruiser in 2021—ourselves included—your prayers have been answered: Toyota has resurrected the off-road icon.

www.caranddriver.com

2024 LC250 5639lb

 

[tacoshawn]

My OT+ is 5,620lb fully fueled weighed on a CAT commercial scale. So, within the range Heckraiser shared.

 

[Jetboy]

You guys have to accept. The new 4 door FJ Cruiser is the entry level 1958 LC PRADO. Have you seen them side by side? Look like twins. There is no way Toyota will introduce yet another rig in this crazy mix between PRADO, GX550 and 6th gen 4runner.

I refuse to accept it. And I will blissfully live in denial until they release it in 2046 as a 2051 model year. It does look a lot like a LC250 with the rear end clipped off and the spare put back up on the rear door.

It's so close too - all it would take to fix that silhouette is shortening up the front clip:

 

[Rednexus]

Just FYI, the high belt line and many other compromises are probably due to crash test standards and pedestrian impact standards. They are mainly to blame for high belt lines and vertical grilles on almost every vehicle. Their roles in making vehicles huge, ugly, and hard to see out of cannot be understated, as well as CAFE standards in making more complex drivetrains. That being said, the safety of modern vehicles is very good, they just don't have the low belt lines and swooping shapes of the 90s and 00s.

Yet, road deaths keep increasing. If people would put their phones down maybe we could have less compromised rigs .

 

[Rednexus]

The rear is really hard to fix without moving the tire to the door. You have to keep a minimum of about 40 inches from the rear axle to the rear bumper cover to have room for a spare tire underneath plus the rear crossmember, foam crush cushion, and rear bumper skin. And it's something you can't fix easily with bigger tires because you have to extend that length by the full tire height while the ride height only goes up by half. And then you've got to balance the ground to bumper height with the interior deck height. I think that is pretty well optimized as best they can with the tire underneath. The only real fix is a tire on the back but then you also have to use a sideways opening door and it seems that the core customer (soccer moms) don't want that..

One nice change with the TNGA-F SUVs is the integration of the trailer hitch into the rear crossmember, instead of having it as an dealer-add on accessory that hangs down under the rear crossmember and frame rails. This gives several inches more clearance than the older rigs....IF the spare tire is mounted elsewhere AND there is an aftermarket bumper. For the older rigs, there is no off-the-shelf way to keep a Class IV hitch (needed for real towing) and have a good departure angle. Ditching the hitch is not a big deal if the rig is a toy, but my current rig is also used to tow our camper and drag a smaller utility trailer around - frankly quite a bit more often than it is used for wheeling.

I'm probably going to build or have built to my design a custom rear bumper for my 470 that replaces the rear crossmember and includes and integrated trailer hitch and tire swingout. Basically the same hitch theory as the TNGA-F rear crossmember. This would fix the weak departure angle on my current rig and allow me to tow with a WDH. Some bumpers you can buy now are like that (Ascend, Coastal ultra-high clearance), they just use pretty small square tubing to replace the OEM crossmember, so they'd require beefier tubing and other reinforcement to tow for real.

 

[Jetboy]

FWIW- I almost never find the rear bumper clearance to be an issue as long as it has decent height and some sort of skid underneath or a steel bumper to slid off of stuff. I can't remember a time on any obstacle that I was hung up on the rear bumper. Plenty of times I've been rejected and had to re-try an obstacle over front bumper clearance. Last time I was in Moab I pinch cut off my winch rope when the fairlead pinched against a rock face. But the rear just drags over the rocks and off we go.

The 6th gen 4Runner really moved that bumper up high and tight. It's a bit odd in that I think even minor impacts could damage the rear hatch, but the bumper is about as slim as it can be. And I think it'll be really easy to build a simple bolt on bumper skid to fit there like I had on my 5th gen.

As far as beltline height - it's pretty hard to build a vehicle that's safe from a side impact from this. I'm a truck guy and even I think it's getting a bit out of hand. I saw a test where a 6 foot tall man on a stock GM 2500 AT4X literally cannot reach the dip stick or check things like the air filter without a booster step. I tend to think it'll be a net positive if NHTSA is proposing a rule for hood height and forward visibility. As I understand the proposed rule (not yet published that I'm aware of) will set a hood height max at around 40 inches. A current tall HD trucks like Tremor or AT4X are about 55-60 inches. So they'll have to come down 20 inches in height. That's a huge change if it is adopted.

 

[Heckraiser]

Since the new 4runner is basically mechanically identical to the LC250, I'm interested to see how the cargo space and overall dimensions pan out. I'd like my next truck to be smaller than the 200. LC 250 certainly looks smaller, though not much different at the flares. Also curious how the seat folding/cargo scenario compares between the 4runner and the LC250. The 5th gen 4runner's flip forward and fold down rear seat folding mechanism allows a few inches more cargo length even compared against the much larger 200. I'm 5'8" and I can lie flat in the back of a 4runner just by folding the seats away, but need to remove seats or build a platform to lie flat in the 200.