The Grand Highlander with the 2.4 turbo hybrid is advertised as 27 mpg and weighs 4900 pounds, 400 more than the current 4Runner. I can't see the LC250 getting the same mpg as the GH. Maybe the Tacoma will get that.
Interesting thoughts from Toyota regarding the 250 in this week’s Automotive News
- Thread starter desmocruiser
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That's incorrect. The Grand Highlander Hybrid MAX is rated at 32 MPG combined, so 27 does seem reasonable for the 250 with street tires.
I take this back, Toyota has some conflicting information on their website.
Grand Highlander is lighter than the 4Runner in similar trims I think. Base awd GH is 4575 lbs. Base 4Runner 4x4 is 4680lbs. If the GH hybrid is 4900, that's pretty consistent with the 500ish lbs for the hybrid system in the Tundra. Take a 4x4 4Runner TRD at 4800lbs and add another 500 and you're at 5300lbs. My bet is that the LC is within 100lbs of the LC300 comparably equipped. LC300 is about 5500lbs in lower trims, so I think the LC ends up between 5300-5600lbs. The T4 saves some weight, the 8AT is a bit lighter, and the base model interior is lighter, but the hybrid adds more than all of that savings I think.
I'm also struggling to see the LC getting the same mpg as the GH. It is smaller in terms of frontal area and may have similar coefficient of friction. And the LC is a low rider at only 8" of ground clearance. The best data point I know of is the Sequoia at 21/24/22. The TTV6 seems to be pretty inefficient in general. If the Turbo4 is more efficient, I could see 27 highway maybe. 27 combined will be a big surprise to me.
NTTD
Lurker
60 series? You talking about that plush "Mall Cruiser" with factory AC?! Heck the later models along with "ruining" the headlights had POWER WINDOWS AND MIRRORS!!!
There hasn't been a "real" Land Cruiser wagon since the 55. Everyone knows that!
The iron pig are arguably the ugliest that it looks so beautiful nowadays. I always dream one like Clay Parrish build a few years ago. 55 body, 80 frame and 100 engine or maybe with 2.4 T Hybrid now60 series? You talking about that plush "Mall Cruiser" with factory AC?! Heck the later models along with "ruining" the headlights had POWER WINDOWS AND MIRRORS!!!
There hasn't been a "real" Land Cruiser wagon since the 55. Everyone knows that!
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Just Test drove a new Sr Tundra CrewMax.
That 6cyl turbo is nice. Just gotta stay out of the Turbo. I do like that Engine. 20mpg on highway isn’t bad
Edit:
I understand how some wish the 250 had that engine.
(Difficult not to Hard pedal the Brake/throttle burn out)
That 6cyl turbo is nice. Just gotta stay out of the Turbo. I do like that Engine. 20mpg on highway isn’t bad
Edit:
I understand how some wish the 250 had that engine.
(Difficult not to Hard pedal the Brake/throttle burn out)
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Still an oddity to me that it's only 17mpg in the GX to me. I'm still not sure why it's not more like 22-24 if it is 20 in a bigger less aerodynamic Tundra. Maybe the 17mpg wasn't right?
I think the biggest issue isn't so much that the LC250 has the T4 hybrid, it's that it doesn't have the option to have it either way. I really struggle with understanding Toyota's decision on the north america market. They give us the biggest most powerful engine options in some models, while at the same time in most of the world they offer SUVs with 3 or more engine choices, yet they choose in the USA not to offer even just 2 engine options in a lot of models. And I also don't understand why they use the 8 speed over the 10 speed in the LC250 and Tacoma. They claim it's higher ground clearance than the 10 speed, but I think that's probably not true. It shouldn't be any more expensive to produce, and if it were more expensive - why is the 10AT in the $38k base model Tundra? Sometimes it seems like there's no rhyme or reason to the choices - just randomness.
All good points.
That 6cyl TT is nice.
It should be an option… and maybe it will be?
Wishful thinking
The 17 mpg in the GX doesn’t make sense. Whatever the Tacoma hybrid gets for mpg will give us an idea of what the LC250 will get and the 6th gen 4Runner. If the 4R is pushing 30 mpg I’ll be buying one. Reliability will have to be a faith based leap.
The simple answer is that Toyota’s marketing department did their job in understanding the local buyers and projected sales already far outpaces production capacity.
Agreed, high market demand that they can never meet with production disincentivizes them to offer lots of options and other things we truly want. Simple supply & demand economics - when the supply side is constrained, manufacturers can get lazy.
You, Me and many others to say the least
I don't think this passes the smell test. Toyota also cannot produce enough Highlanders, GH, Rav4 and many other models to meet demand. Yet they offer 3 or more engine options in all of those models. And - Toyota is building at least 4 engine options in the LC250, 5 if you count the GX550. EDIT: There are 6 engine options being produced in year 1: TTv6 GX, T4 hybrid, T4, 2.8 diesel hybrid, 2.8 diesel, 2TR-FE. Toyota is literally already building a TTV6 version of of the same model on the same production line. The engine option choice is not a production limiting factor. If it was limiting production - it would be the hybrid model that requires more production constrained components - both microchips and batteries. Production limitation is not an explanation for only offering the hybrid.
Toyota's market share is down 14% from last year. The constrained production is keeping prices and margins high. But it's not sustainable.
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I think they may be reporting the GX550 Overtrail model separate from the other GX. The Larger tires and worse aero could easily knock a few mpg off the combined figure.
Look at something like the Raptor (15 city/18 hwy) vs Tremor (17 city / 22 hwy) vs a regular 4x4 F150 (19 city/24 hwy)
The LX600 is rated for 17 city/22 hwy/19 combined. Guessing the regular GX550 may be the same (worse aero but lighter)
I could see 17mpg if it were on 37's. The 265/70/18's just aren't very big. And they're narrow touring tires. For example the Sequoia has 265/60/20's that are the same size as what Toyota is calling "33"s on the LC250. Lots of full size trucks come with factory tires larger than the Overtrail tires. The regular 4x4 F150 has 275/60/20's on the King Ranch trim that are about half an inch taller than the LC has and it still gets 16/22.
NTTD
Lurker
This isn't an intentional decision by Toyota. They are a business and want to make money. Because of the years-long chip (and other components) backlog that is only starting to be remedied there is a huge pent-up demand. There is a fair amount of catch-up to do before supply/demand levels out.
It's unusual that basically Toyota is unable to catch up with production. Most of the other major manufacturers have production outpacing demand right now. I'm not sure why Toyota globally is so far behind the curve on production. Efficient production is Toyota's core competency, but for some reason apparently only Toyota and Kia can't figure it out? I don't think it's demand growth - Toyota sales numbers are down a lot from previous years.
I don’t think you understood my point. The LC-Lite will outsell capacity despite itself because of who will be buying them in North America. Toyota may be many things but stupid is not one of them.
Help me understand. The LC250 will outsell capacity regardless of powertrain. I think that would be true with either the hybrid or the T6. But that's the same with a dozen other Toyota models. It's also the same for the LC250 in other markets that will offer multiple engine options. And it hasn't stopped Toyota from offering options for customers on any of those other models. Toyota would still sell every Tundra it makes without a hybrid model. So - why is it smart for Toyota to only offer the one option in the LC but also smart to offer both options in the Tundra, or 4 options for the Rav4?
If Toyota is so clever - why are they not able to manufacture vehicles at full volume? Everyone else figured it out. I think it's just a group of people making choices that are not uniquely intelligent or clever. They make some good ones and some poor ones.
