Intake Manifold Heater

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Ass heater might be a good idea..

Lots of heat provided by beans ;)



If it is that big of a deal, then get a generator.. Cruisers are not that hard to start when cold..
 
Yep. I confidently expect any of my Cruisers to start at -15F. Down around -25F the confidence drops, but I still expect them to start. At those temps you generally are not spending a lot of time in the field. Which means that plug ins ARE available. If you are heading out to the backcountry in these conditions, you'd best be carrying gear and have well prepped rigs anyway.
There are also diesel and propane powered block heaters for folks who who need non-plug in setups (over the highway big rigs for example).

Anyway, IMHO, a little bit of warm up time and increased emissions is simply not a concern in these limited scenerios.

I seriously doubt that you will get enough heat from anything powered by your starting battery to heat up your intake/carb enough to help with starting when it is cold enough to need that help. Especially when the reduced power available to then crank the engine is taken into account.

For comparision... the 800 watts I mentoned about. On 115V house current. For 15 minutes... Convert it to 12V and it's 1000 amp/minutes (16.6 amp/hours)

Not too many automotive batteries have this kind of power. Now, if you could isolate the energy used to the intake and carb alone, then you would obviously need less power. That is what bsevens seems to be looking at. I don't expect that you will be able to pull sufficient energy out of the battery even if you can pour all of the heat into the manifold. Doesn't hurt to give it a try though. Surest way to not succede is not to try. ;)


Mark...
 
If in the end it does not make sense, I'll gladly pour myself another shot of Don Eduardo, kick back, smile and reflect on the joy of the ride and not the destination. I won't, however, run out of gas along the way.
 
I wanna see where this goes. dsevans... maybe you should change it to BBsevans "Big Brain".

Mark W: do you have a schematic/drawing of your manifold heating system? I'm more the visual learner, if I can see it I can understand it.:D
Thanks!
 
Mark W said:
But there is a simple and proven approach that changes this. Plug in block heaters. If the coolant is heated prior to the "cold" start of the engine the manifold is already heated. An additional step improves this even more. Either by itself or in addition to the freezeplug heaters, add an external tank heater with the intake feeding from the drain port on the block and the outflow plumbed into the"heater hose" side of the intake preheater plate. The other side of the intake heater is of course connected to the heater hose fitting on the head.
When the tank heater is energized, the convective flow generated pushes hot coolant through the intake heater before it flows into the head. Since the intake side of the heater is pullng fluid out of the drain port, a very effective circular pattern is generated which flows through the intake before going on to shed the rest of it's heat in the engine.Mark...
Click to expand...

So you mount the heater tank below the level of the carb/manifold inorder to induce convective flow? Pardon the potentially ignorant question, but, what does this tank heater look like, is it like one of those dip in the cup instant coffee heaters? They need a "I'm really showing my ass" icons for this situation.
 
Tank heaters are a cylinder, generally about 2.5 inches in diameter. Lengths usually varies with power (I've used them in 800 watt up to 2000 watts ratings). The cord goes in the bottom and the inlet is on the (bottom) side with a check valve in it. The outlet is at the top. Flow is soley due to convective circulation so you have to mount the top... above... the bottom. I've seen a few mistakently mounted horizontally. So long as the source poinjt for the intake is below the connection for the outlet then it will still work to some degree.


Mark...
 
Here is an example http://tinyurl.com/lcrz3

Excellent information Mark W. concerning the true power needing to be pulled from an already weakened battery. Nothing like the voice of experience from the part of the country that could truely use this!

Those with dual battery setups could get the most benifit from this glow-plug solution.

Now along those lines why not just rig up an in line heater to pre-heat the air flow into the carb? Would seem to be the most effecient method to get the most benifit from the limited power available? Instead of heating a bunch of metal then hoping the heat will transfer to the air just heat the air?

Now there is some math for someone to work out! What volume of air is pulled into a Cruiser engine during it's first 5 minutes of operation and how much power would be required to raise it's temp from ambeint to whatever is needed to do the job?
 
Coolerman said:
Here is an example http://tinyurl.com/lcrz3

Excellent information Mark W. concerning the true power needing to be pulled from an already weakened battery. Nothing like the voice of experience from the part of the country that could truely use this!

Those with dual battery setups could get the most benifit from this glow-plug solution.

Now along those lines why not just rig up an in line heater to pre-heat the air flow into the carb? Would seem to be the most effecient method to get the most benifit from the limited power available? Instead of heating a bunch of metal then hoping the heat will transfer to the air just heat the air?

Now there is some math for someone to work out! What volume of air is pulled into a Cruiser engine during it's first 5 minutes of operation and how much power would be required to raise it's temp from ambeint to whatever is needed to do the job?
Click to expand...
An interesting idea that certainly justifies further study of the feasibility and implemintation.
 
Heating the fuel so that it is happy to vaporize is much more important than heating the air. Warm fuel will vaporize into cold air much better than cold fuel will into warm air.

Much less (and much more concentrated) mass to heat by warming the fuel than by warming all of the air (that is outside of the engine) that the fuel will need to mix with.

You really only need to warm things up enough to affect the first minute of so of engine operation. The only need for added warmth (except in situations where you actually have frost on the cylinder walls or extremely thick oils, very weak batteries and stuff like that which can occur in true artic conditions) is to get the fuel to vaporize effeciently
But just for the heck of it, let's look at the amount of air you'd need to warm for 5 minutes of operation. Even assuming that the engine is started and just idles... 800 rpm x 5 minutes would be 4000. 4000 x 258 = 1032000 CI, or 7167 cubic feet. For the sake of arguement we'll assume a volumetric effeciency of 65% which gives 4658 cubic feet of air that would need to be heated. That is about the amount of air inside a 3200-3500 square foot house.

Don't forget that air is a very poor conductor of heat too...

So really the only way to provide warm air to your engine for the first 5 minutes of operation would be.... Park it in a heated garage. ;) And leav it sitting there with the door closed . :(


Mark...
 
Mark W said:
So really the only way to provide warm air to your engine for the first 5 minutes of operation would be.... Park it in a heated garage. ;) And leave it sitting there with the door closed . :(
Mark...
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I do. But I have a hose that runs out the pet entry door to get rid of the exhaust... :-) Hmmm so the Cruiser will perform an air exchange in the garage in about 2 minutes?!



Your are correct, it should be easier to heat up the amount of fuel a Cruiser would use during 1-5 minutes of idling vs a house full of air. The only catch is can it be done safely. Maybe take the idea behind the glow plug and build a gizmo that sits as close to the carb as possible, allows the fuel to pass through it absorbing heat but with no direct contact with the heating element, a temp monitoring circuit to ensure the fuel does not get too hot, (vapor lock or worse!) another temp circuit to monitor outside temp (no need to heat fuel if temp is above say, 45 degrees?) and finally a watch dog circuit that would turn power off to the heater after 5 minutes regardless of the other two conditions.

Or have a small 'surge tank' of fuel that could be heated very quickly with the glo-plug sitting close to the carb?

Wow... After thinking that one through I guess we should go back to KISS. After all it is a Cruiser not a Cadillac with a NorthStar under the hood...
 
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Coolerman said:
Maybe take the idea behind the glow plug and build a gizmo that sits as close to the carb as possible, allows the fuel to pass through it absorbing heat but with no direct contact with the heating element, a temp monitoring circuit to ensure the fuel does not get too hot, (vapor lock or worse!) another temp circuit to monitor outside temp (no need to heat fuel if temp is above say, 45 degrees?) and finally a watch dog circuit that would turn power off to the heater after 5 minutes regardless of the other two conditions.
Click to expand...
They already make aftermarket fuel line heaters for diesels. Something to look into.
http://www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_dfh_intro/r_dfh_intro.html
http://www.arctic-fox.com/sitepages/pid13.php
 
Some great minds at work in this old thread... Whatever became of the idea behind this thread? (Just for curiousity?)
 
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