Ineos Grenadier (8 Viewers)

[Madtiger]

Your point here is that the 200 series Land Cruiser sold globally in big quantities is therefore a flop to buy in the US… I think there is just little interest and arguable a need for the best all round SUV there is. I am happy it is exclusive.

What the Grenny will do globally is to be seen. Does not look good.

Big quantities overseas is due to them selling low-end LC200s.

I am not arguing for IG being a success…i too see that once enthusiasts rush passes, IG will have a rough time selling to “normal” consumers.

 

[Madtiger]

I think you are confusing vehicles worth vs. vehicle sales. Yea, they changed strategy due to poor sales in North America. They still sell a bunch in other countries.

I don't consider the new models downgraded to a 4runner. I think it is more a happy medium. They changed the wheelbase to the 112.2" on all those models which was not the case before, so the 4runner, LC250, and GX550 (Prado) got an upgrade.

See above…sell a bunch due to overseas selling low-priced LC200s.

And before change, a 5th gen 4Runner has similar approach/departure/break over angles as the new LC250 despite having “less-than-optimal” wheelbase. And, seemingly, the older 4Runner has more interior room i think from pictures…and there is no hump in the 2nd row.

 

[04UZJ100]

To be fair…..if we are judging a vehicle’s worth by that, then LC200 was a major flop too. So much so that Toyota has basically changed strategy 180 degree and made a bunch of different 4Runners instead.

Yeah but it sold globally. Ineos only has the grenadier.

 

[skrypj]

I think you are confusing vehicles worth vs. vehicle sales. Yea, they changed strategy due to poor sales in North America. They still sell a bunch in other countries.

I don't consider the new models downgraded to a 4runner. I think it is more a happy medium. They changed the wheelbase to the 112.2" on all those models which was not the case before, so the 4runner, LC250, and GX550 (Prado) got an upgrade.

The north american sales sucked because they were trying to sell a $100k SUV that doesnt really do anything much better than other 100k suv's besides offroad.

Most people that can afford $100k SUV's probably arnt worried about them lasting 500k miles because they probably buy a new one every 2 years anyways. Around here, all the Escalades and Yukon Denali's have already been traded in for the new models. No one is still driving a 2020 Escalade.

Your point here is that the 200 series Land Cruiser sold globally in big quantities is therefore a flop to buy in the US… I think there is just little interest and arguable a need for the best all round SUV there is. I am happy it is exclusive.

What the Grenny will do globally is to be seen. Does not look good.

How many people in the US need a $90k+ SUV that can tow and offroad and doesnt have apple carplay/android auto even in 2021? Probably not a lot.

Big quantities overseas is due to them selling low-end LC200s.

I am not arguing for IG being a success…i too see that once enthusiasts rush passes, IG will have a rough time selling to “normal” consumers.

This. If they had offered an SR or SR5 LC200 for 55k I bet we would have seen a lot more sales.

And I agree on the IG. I think it looks the part of a offroader but, so far, the comparisons and tests I have seen don't make it seem like its anything spectacular offroad. The front solid axle seems to have very limited articulation and really the only big selling point I have seen from an offroad standpoint is the front and rear lockers.

Their traction control system seem to be pretty inferior to ATRAC so without lockers it would not be very good. The comparison I saw from Australia against a 300 series(also a Y62 Patrol and Defender) showed the 300 climbing up the same obstacles almost as effortlessly with ATRAC as the grenadier did with lockers. TFLTruck took one to moab with a 5th gen 4Runner TRD Pro and the 4Runner was just as capable even without the front locker. Anywhere they had some spin the ATRAC jumped right in and helped out.

 

[JackAttack13]

I was a long time follower, put one on order and took delivery about 2 months ago. Purchased as a potentially viable replacement to my aging 100 series that I absolutely love. I really liked that it seemed like they filled the gap where every other manufacturer was scared to even venture. Solid axles, triple locked, winch, etc.

Took delivery and immediately had electrical issues. Faults, malfunctions, errors, etc. Vehicle is in the shop for the second time now. Needless to say, I purchased the truck thinking it was going to be a bare bones SUV like my 100 but come to find out, what small amount of electrics it does have are poorly designed and unreliable (My take as of now.) The speed warning I thought I would get used to, but it is just annoying AF and incredibly distracting. And the Auto Start/Stop is way too impatient shutting down on 3 point turns. Everything else is fantastic! Drives like a dream. Drive train is perfect. And is a beast off-road! And an absolute stunner to look at.

Now the worst part isn't the vehicle. Its the service. Parts take forever to get. Nothing is stocked. Everything is a wait. And it seems that they have the hardest time fixing the smallest issues. I was told they couldn't perform an alignment (The steering wheel was off center upon delivery) because the specs were unreleased. What kinda crap is that? Every visit seems to be a week or more. Going on over 3 weeks in the shop and have only owned for 8 weeks.

If the issues are unresolved with this second visit, I am going to attempt a Lemon Law buy back. I am pretty much over it. I have lost trust in the business model as of right now. I am not saying it won't get better, but the lack luster response about the ADAS from Corporate is very telling. And if the service centers struggle to fix this vehicle, than how will it go down if I am in some remote part of the country and need a repair. Their promise for a network of repair centers has disappeared with the promised DIY service manuals and 24 hour parts availability promises that they were originally touting.

I personally hope to get my issues resolved, but at this point I would rather just drive my Hundy another 100k miles.

 

[OldCarSmell]

I was a long time follower, put one on order and took delivery about 2 months ago. Purchased as a potentially viable replacement to my aging 100 series that I absolutely love. I really liked that it seemed like they filled the gap where every other manufacturer was scared to even venture. Solid axles, triple locked, winch, etc.

Took delivery and immediately had electrical issues. Faults, malfunctions, errors, etc. Vehicle is in the shop for the second time now. Needless to say, I purchased the truck thinking it was going to be a bare bones SUV like my 100 but come to find out, what small amount of electrics it does have are poorly designed and unreliable (My take as of now.) The speed warning I thought I would get used to, but it is just annoying AF and incredibly distracting. And the Auto Start/Stop is way too impatient shutting down on 3 point turns. Everything else is fantastic! Drives like a dream. Drive train is perfect. And is a beast off-road! And an absolute stunner to look at.

Now the worst part isn't the vehicle. Its the service. Parts take forever to get. Nothing is stocked. Everything is a wait. And it seems that they have the hardest time fixing the smallest issues. I was told they couldn't perform an alignment (The steering wheel was off center upon delivery) because the specs were unreleased. What kinda crap is that? Every visit seems to be a week or more. Going on over 3 weeks in the shop and have only owned for 8 weeks.

If the issues are unresolved with this second visit, I am going to attempt a Lemon Law buy back. I am pretty much over it. I have lost trust in the business model as of right now. I am not saying it won't get better, but the lack luster response about the ADAS from Corporate is very telling. And if the service centers struggle to fix this vehicle, than how will it go down if I am in some remote part of the country and need a repair. Their promise for a network of repair centers has disappeared with the promised DIY service manuals and 24 hour parts availability promises that they were originally touting.

I personally hope to get my issues resolved, but at this point I would rather just drive my Hundy another 100k miles.

No shade from me here, I’m glad you and others have been willing to take the plunge and find out for the rest of us, but for the life of me I can’t fathom why anyone would buy a model year one ANYTHING, let alone from a new manufacturer. No matter how well it’s done it’s still a human-designed and human-made product (even if robots are intimately involved these days…). Hell, I won’t even touch a MY1 Toyota, just not worth it in my eyes. There’s always kinks to work out and that doesn’t jive well with me needing to get to work everyday.

 

[terdrocket]

No shade from me here, I’m glad you and others have been willing to take the plunge and find out for the rest of us, but for the life of me I can’t fathom why anyone would buy a model year one ANYTHING, let alone from a new manufacturer. No matter how well it’s done it’s still a human-designed and human-made product (even if robots are intimately involved these days…). Hell, I won’t even touch a MY1 Toyota, just not worth it in my eyes. There’s always kinks to work out and that doesn’t jive well with me needing to get to work everyday.

This is not year one. Vehicle was out for a full year in 23 for UK, Europe, etc.

 

[04UZJ100]

I was a long time follower, put one on order and took delivery about 2 months ago. Purchased as a potentially viable replacement to my aging 100 series that I absolutely love. I really liked that it seemed like they filled the gap where every other manufacturer was scared to even venture. Solid axles, triple locked, winch, etc.

Took delivery and immediately had electrical issues. Faults, malfunctions, errors, etc. Vehicle is in the shop for the second time now. Needless to say, I purchased the truck thinking it was going to be a bare bones SUV like my 100 but come to find out, what small amount of electrics it does have are poorly designed and unreliable (My take as of now.) The speed warning I thought I would get used to, but it is just annoying AF and incredibly distracting. And the Auto Start/Stop is way too impatient shutting down on 3 point turns. Everything else is fantastic! Drives like a dream. Drive train is perfect. And is a beast off-road! And an absolute stunner to look at.

Now the worst part isn't the vehicle. Its the service. Parts take forever to get. Nothing is stocked. Everything is a wait. And it seems that they have the hardest time fixing the smallest issues. I was told they couldn't perform an alignment (The steering wheel was off center upon delivery) because the specs were unreleased. What kinda crap is that? Every visit seems to be a week or more. Going on over 3 weeks in the shop and have only owned for 8 weeks.

If the issues are unresolved with this second visit, I am going to attempt a Lemon Law buy back. I am pretty much over it. I have lost trust in the business model as of right now. I am not saying it won't get better, but the lack luster response about the ADAS from Corporate is very telling. And if the service centers struggle to fix this vehicle, than how will it go down if I am in some remote part of the country and need a repair. Their promise for a network of repair centers has disappeared with the promised DIY service manuals and 24 hour parts availability promises that they were originally touting.

I personally hope to get my issues resolved, but at this point I would rather just drive my Hundy another 100k miles.

What business model? I am serious.

 

[chadd7]

I acknowledge some of the issues with the Grenadier and difficulty servicing. I'm 60 miles from my dealership and they have been great, so not a big concern. If you're a lot further from a dealership and this is your sole vehicle, don't think I'd recommend it. But I'm very happy with my purchase, especially given how much every other SUV I've considered makes me yawn.

 

[CT3]

No shade from me here, I’m glad you and others have been willing to take the plunge and find out for the rest of us, but for the life of me I can’t fathom why anyone would buy a model year one ANYTHING, let alone from a new manufacturer. No matter how well it’s done it’s still a human-designed and human-made product (even if robots are intimately involved these days…). Hell, I won’t even touch a MY1 Toyota, just not worth it in my eyes. There’s always kinks to work out and that doesn’t jive well with me needing to get to work everyday.

This is my feeling too. I wouldn’t be too eager to own the first year Tundra or GX or LX or even new LC.

You can multiply that skepticism by maybe 100x for a LR and maybe 1000x for Ineos which has never made a car before…

But again from a scientific perspective I applaud the brave souls that have taken the plunge, we are all eager to learn from your experiences! And I remain optimistic for the long term

 

[TheHighlander]

Throttle House review of the Grenadier

 

[skrypj]

That video is hilarious

I take issue with them claiming it has the capability of a Wrangler though. There really isnt much that has the capability of a Wrangler Rubicon stock for stock.

 

[TheHighlander]

That video is hilarious

I take issue with them claiming it has the capability of a Wrangler though. There really isnt much that has the capability of a Wrangler Rubicon stock for stock.

Haha agree, I feel like they just made the leap to that from 'well it has front & rear solid axles and lockers from the factory.... so basically a Wrangler Rubicon!'
IMO, a Wrangler Rubicon 392 is in a class of its own from factory for pure off-road abilities. Grenadier seems to strike the right balance of overbuilt mechanicals, cargo space, payload, 4x4 abilities ... so perfect for "Overlanders".

If I had the space and I'd love an LC200 and Grenadier dual garage though

 

[skrypj]

Haha agree, I feel like they just made the leap to that from 'well it has front & rear solid axles and lockers from the factory.... so basically a Wrangler Rubicon!'
IMO, a Wrangler Rubicon 392 is in a class of its own from factory for pure off-road abilities. Grenadier seems to strike the right balance of overbuilt mechanicals, cargo space, payload, 4x4 abilities ... so perfect for "Overlanders".

If I had the space and I'd love an LC200 and Grenadier dual garage though

Yeah. You can get the factory 35's on the regular Wranglers too with the extreme recon package. Lockers, 35's, sway bar disco, etc. Its hard to beat.

I will say, I have not looked at Wranglers but before I bought my LX I was looking hard at Gladiators with the Ecodiesel. Those trucks are very well built and have a solid foundation. The transmission is the same as the grenadier(ZF 8HP70) and the axles and steering gear are no joke. I think most of the issues people have are electrical, not with the powertrain or suspension components failing. Or if they have issues its because they are trying to run 40's on stock axles, which is pretty easy to do on a Gladiator.

 

[DrivenLyfe]

Yeah. You can get the factory 35's on the regular Wranglers too with the extreme recon package. Lockers, 35's, sway bar disco, etc. Its hard to beat.

I will say, I have not looked at Wranglers but before I bought my LX I was looking hard at Gladiators with the Ecodiesel. Those trucks are very well built and have a solid foundation. The transmission is the same as the grenadier(ZF 8HP70) and the axles and steering gear are no joke. I think most of the issues people have are electrical, not with the powertrain or suspension components failing. Or if they have issues its because they are trying to run 40's on stock axles, which is pretty easy to do on a Gladiator.

I was looking into the eco diesel but Jeep forums seem to say it has issues. I will say that and the ability to easily fit 37s to 40s is enticing.

 

[skymast]

I had one of the first Grenadiers in the US. It's a great-looking vehicle, drives well, etc but sold it after 3 months. 4.5 Hours from a dealership was one of the issues but largely I think Ineos is doing a bad job supporting the actual customer aspect of the launch as well as supporting a new dealer network. For a 'purpose built' off-roader, they added a lot of safety and electronics that are not easily disabled. If you watch any of the videos, reviewers like the vehicle but hate the British quirks that made it into a 2024 vehicle. Finally, watching people try to lock/unlock the locking differentials is really painful when in a G wagon, you just push a button and the magic happens.

 

[CharlieS]

Yeah. You can get the factory 35's on the regular Wranglers too with the extreme recon package. Lockers, 35's, sway bar disco, etc. Its hard to beat.

I will say, I have not looked at Wranglers but before I bought my LX I was looking hard at Gladiators with the Ecodiesel. Those trucks are very well built and have a solid foundation. The transmission is the same as the grenadier(ZF 8HP70) and the axles and steering gear are no joke. I think most of the issues people have are electrical, not with the powertrain or suspension components failing. Or if they have issues its because they are trying to run 40's on stock axles, which is pretty easy to do on a Gladiator.

Do yourself a favor before buyjng a Wrangler and rent one for a week. The ergonomics are horrible, the visibility is poor, fit and finish is horrific.

 

[2021 LC200]

I was looking into the eco diesel but Jeep forums seem to say it has issues. I will say that and the ability to easily fit 37s to 40s is enticing.

Diesels and latest emission systems (DPF and NOx cat using add blue) are a technical mess IMO. Even Toyota on 200 series diesel Land Cruisers in for example Australia have been struggling.

I would only consider on big vehicles like the F250 with the DPF easy accessible while changing oil timely to keep the dilution of diesel and oil within reason and the bearings and turbo relative happy.

 

[bloc]

Plus, aren’t Jeep’s diesels built by VM motori and notoriously unreliable?

 

[Pura Vida]

I sat in a couple grenadiers at a cars and coffee and they felt really solid, although I don’t know if I would cough up 80k for one