Ineos Grenadier

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From my experience, I would not own anything with BMW components beyond manufactures warranty.
 
Well, it depends. I am also not saying you should buy a BMW. I get the average person is not willing to put the effort in or take the risk or like you may have had a bad experience already.

I do happen to own a German (Dingolfing) build 2014 535d Msport and it has been without issue, except me deciding to delete the DPF when it plugged up early in its career. These diesel emission system are a cancer, not just a BMW problem. In fact they had it working, VW and Mercedes never did. It drives great (way better than any Lexus or Cadillac) and for example the seats (BMW comfort) and the engine/gearbox management are way better than any Toyota product I have driven to date. I also do not mind doing my own maintenance and have ISTA+ to be able to do any work on it. Been handy to replace the fuel filter (bleed function), the brake fluid (ABS pump actuation) and transmission fluid (refill procedure).

The 535d is truly a driving machine. It gets 42 mpg at 75 mph and you can effortless drive it for long 12 hour+ days. Done it a couple of times Houston to Florida and back. I get why folk stay away from it. I would say you are missing out. At the same time i recognize it is an enthusiast vehicle past the initial 4 years. High risk/high reward. So cannot recommend you buy one unless you understand the game. Am very happy I bought one. Like our 2021 LC200 I enjoy every time I drive it, as if it is a new vehicle driven off the dealer lot. Gives me a big smile when I accelerate from 60 to 80 mph. The deleted engine gets around 520 ft lbs from factory 413 ft lbs. That is a lot for a 3950lbs vehicle. It flies :cool:
 
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2021 LC200 said:
Interesting. My BMW 535d diesel inline 6 coupled with the ZF 8 speed is motor/transmission management wise the very best of any vehicle I have owned. I would expect the Grenadier to be excellent in that space. Toyota could learn from that IMO.
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Anything with a ZF8 seems to be this way. the multiple Ram 1500 rentals I have had, IMHO, are amazing. The ZF8 always had the Hemi right where it needed to be with no lag or drama
 
2021 LC200 said:
Just came by this. Nice demo of the Grenadier's offroad capabilities. Apologize if this is a repost.

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I saw this a while ago. The reviewer is kinda goofy but the testing he does is informative. I don't think he really showed how much of a side hill they can be driven over. Isn't it ±40º?

I thought the dirtbox overland videos were pretty good.

 
onemanarmy said:
nothing is made to last 20 years anymore....how would the stock price go up?!
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Which I find heartbreaking, after 10 years of 80-series DD ownership (94-04), and ~20 years of DD 100-series ownership (06-current), not to mention long term Mercedes W123 & (early) Lexus LS ownership.

Is there any currently in production vehicle, that is worth owning, past its warranty period, or have we completely moved to the “disposable electronics” model?
 
Planned obsolescence is the way. The "range rover effect" has invaded all manufacturer's mindset because it makes money.

This guy being interviewed is a transmission guy (NextGen) but tells it like it is.



 
jLB said:
Which I find heartbreaking, after 10 years of 80-series DD ownership (94-04), and ~20 years of DD 100-series ownership (06-current), not to mention long term Mercedes W123 & (early) Lexus LS ownership.

Is there any currently in production vehicle, that is worth owning, past its warranty period, or have we completely moved to the “disposable electronics” model?
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2025 Lexus ES 350
 
rexington14 said:
2025 Lexus ES 350
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How is this “Luxury Camry” built differently from the (formerly “development cost is no object”, and “as reliable as an anvil”) equivalent LS or LX?
 
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jLB said:
How is this “Luxury Camry” built differently from the (formerly “development cost is no object”, and “as reliable as an anvil”) equivalent LS or LX?
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There's no mystical reliability advantage to an LS or an LX compared to many other Toyota models like a Corolla or a Camry. In fact they are probably less reliable due to being equipped with more bells and whistles and complexity... simply more things to go wrong.

Anyways, the current in production Camry is hybrid only - and it's a pretty damn nice vehicle too. Around 50 MPG, 700 miles of range. I've seen reports of 800+ miles on a tank if you hyper-mile it (if your into that sort of thing). And you can be OTD for $29k in LE trim. Probably the best new bang for your buck buy in 2025. Long term reliability is TBD.

The current in production ES 350 still has Toyota's (now ancient) bread and butter 2GR V6 with an 8 speed auto. No hybrid, no turbocharger. It's going to be fine past the warranty period.

Point being is there are still good options out there even in 2025.
 
rexington14 said:
There's no mystical reliability advantage to an LS or an LX compared to many other Toyota models like a Corolla or a Camry. In fact they are probably less reliable due to being equipped with more bells and whistles and complexity... simply more things to go wrong.

Anyways, the current in production Camry is hybrid only - and it's a pretty damn nice vehicle too. Around 50 MPG, 700 miles of range. I've seen reports of 800+ miles on a tank if you hyper-mile it (if your into that sort of thing). And you can be OTD for $29k in LE trim. Probably the best new bang for your buck buy in 2025. Long term reliability is TBD.

The current in production ES 350 still has Toyota's (now ancient) bread and butter 2GR V6 with an 8 speed auto. No hybrid, no turbocharger. It's going to be fine past the warranty period.

Point being is there are still good options out there even in 2025.
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Having purchased both an original LS400, and a second gen LX470, new, and having driven them for decades, along with multiple interim “bean counter” Toyota/Lexus vehicles, please excuse my skepticism, for a generic Toyota/Lexus vehicle.
 
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Test drove a Grenadier the other day.

I was prepared to hate it.

Throttle peddle was terrible. It didn't feel like the first little bit did anything, then it was on. Might've been poor programming. Might've been just the vehicle I was driving.

Steering wheel felt super nice.

The steering is garbage, but no worse than my new F350. Which is also garbage.

Road noise was fine.

Seats were decent, but hard to tell from a 20 minute drive.

Turning radius is nothing impressive. Not terrible, not great.

I hated the glass roof panels, but I hate sunroofs in general.

Power was adequate.

CV's on the front driveshaft. I failed to look at the rear. I don't like that. I'm sure it's smooth, but as a buddy pointed out. Boot tears, water gets in, grease gets pushed out. Failure.

Rear disc's didn't have shields on the inside. This can be good and bad.

Transmission and tcase looked to be tucked up nicely. I failed to note skid protection.

Back seat had adequate legroom. I wouldn't want to be trapped back there cross country at 6'2", but a few hours wouldn't be bad.

The little door in the back is ridiculous. Basically useless.

Cargo area is comparable to my 80 in size. Better in the 80 with the seats folded up. The ineos has a hump in the floor with the rear seats folded up.

Vision out the back in the rear view mirror is not good.

Back up camera is mediocre.

The doors close very nicely.

Heat shields under the hood look like the type that will vibrate with age.

There's insulation in the fender wells that looks like once dirty, will never come clean again.

Passenger footwell seemed fine.

The BMW shift handle would take a minute to get used to for me. But I'm pretty primitive in my likes for vehicles.

Rode well. Seemed balanced nicely.

Seating position was good.

I LOVE that carpet is an option.

Visibility other than straight out the back was decent. Hard to beat a 40 series or 80 series in that regard, but way better than most new vehicles where you can't see crap in any direction except straight ahead.

Overall, I was pretty pleased in how it drove. I know I listed mostly negatives, but those are the things that stand out when you go with scrutiny being your primary thought.

Price point to my way of thinking is cheap and a good value.

I like the ugliness and quirkiness. I like most things that are function is the form, whereas most vehicles are a form over function.

Anything canbus scares me, but I don't think there's any getting away from that without laying out a substantial amount of money turning a 30 year old vehicle back into a new vehicle.

When my 80 becomes too much of a liability in four or five years from mileage and rot, I was entertaining either the Ineos or a GX550. I don't like IFS, and I think the Lexus is going to be a little too posh for me. I'd like to drive one though to find out.
My Grenadier test drive didn't rule it out. Probably made it more of an option in my head. I'd still like the brand to get a few more years under it's belt before I were to purchase one.
 
sogncab said:
Test drove a Grenadier the other day.

I was prepared to hate it.

Throttle peddle was terrible. It didn't feel like the first little bit did anything, then it was on. Might've been poor programming. Might've been just the vehicle I was driving.

Steering wheel felt super nice.

The steering is garbage, but no worse than my new F350. Which is also garbage.

Road noise was fine.

Seats were decent, but hard to tell from a 20 minute drive.

Turning radius is nothing impressive. Not terrible, not great.

I hated the glass roof panels, but I hate sunroofs in general.

Power was adequate.

CV's on the front driveshaft. I failed to look at the rear. I don't like that. I'm sure it's smooth, but as a buddy pointed out. Boot tears, water gets in, grease gets pushed out. Failure.

Rear disc's didn't have shields on the inside. This can be good and bad.

Transmission and tcase looked to be tucked up nicely. I failed to note skid protection.

Back seat had adequate legroom. I wouldn't want to be trapped back there cross country at 6'2", but a few hours wouldn't be bad.

The little door in the back is ridiculous. Basically useless.

Cargo area is comparable to my 80 in size. Better in the 80 with the seats folded up. The ineos has a hump in the floor with the rear seats folded up.

Vision out the back in the rear view mirror is not good.

Back up camera is mediocre.

The doors close very nicely.

Heat shields under the hood look like the type that will vibrate with age.

There's insulation in the fender wells that looks like once dirty, will never come clean again.

Passenger footwell seemed fine.

The BMW shift handle would take a minute to get used to for me. But I'm pretty primitive in my likes for vehicles.

Rode well. Seemed balanced nicely.

Seating position was good.

I LOVE that carpet is an option.

Visibility other than straight out the back was decent. Hard to beat a 40 series or 80 series in that regard, but way better than most new vehicles where you can't see crap in any direction except straight ahead.

Overall, I was pretty pleased in how it drove. I know I listed mostly negatives, but those are the things that stand out when you go with scrutiny being your primary thought.

Price point to my way of thinking is cheap and a good value.

I like the ugliness and quirkiness. I like most things that are function is the form, whereas most vehicles are a form over function.

Anything canbus scares me, but I don't think there's any getting away from that without laying out a substantial amount of money turning a 30 year old vehicle back into a new vehicle.

When my 80 becomes too much of a liability in four or five years from mileage and rot, I was entertaining either the Ineos or a GX550. I don't like IFS, and I think the Lexus is going to be a little too posh for me. I'd like to drive one though to find out.
My Grenadier test drive didn't rule it out. Probably made it more of an option in my head. I'd still like the brand to get a few more years under it's belt before I were to purchase one.
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Also, it is an extremely niche vehicle. After the initial rush of enthusiasts who bought it, there are a bunch sitting on dealer lots. This can be good and bad because that means depreciation is high, which means you can get a lightly used one for a good price, but I am not sure about the future of this vehicle. I wouldn’t buy one new.
 
sogncab said:
Test drove a Grenadier the other day.

I was prepared to hate it.

Throttle peddle was terrible. It didn't feel like the first little bit did anything, then it was on. Might've been poor programming. Might've been just the vehicle I was driving.

Steering wheel felt super nice.

The steering is garbage, but no worse than my new F350. Which is also garbage.

Road noise was fine.

Seats were decent, but hard to tell from a 20 minute drive.

Turning radius is nothing impressive. Not terrible, not great.

I hated the glass roof panels, but I hate sunroofs in general.

Power was adequate.

CV's on the front driveshaft. I failed to look at the rear. I don't like that. I'm sure it's smooth, but as a buddy pointed out. Boot tears, water gets in, grease gets pushed out. Failure.

Rear disc's didn't have shields on the inside. This can be good and bad.

Transmission and tcase looked to be tucked up nicely. I failed to note skid protection.

Back seat had adequate legroom. I wouldn't want to be trapped back there cross country at 6'2", but a few hours wouldn't be bad.

The little door in the back is ridiculous. Basically useless.

Cargo area is comparable to my 80 in size. Better in the 80 with the seats folded up. The ineos has a hump in the floor with the rear seats folded up.

Vision out the back in the rear view mirror is not good.

Back up camera is mediocre.

The doors close very nicely.

Heat shields under the hood look like the type that will vibrate with age.

There's insulation in the fender wells that looks like once dirty, will never come clean again.

Passenger footwell seemed fine.

The BMW shift handle would take a minute to get used to for me. But I'm pretty primitive in my likes for vehicles.

Rode well. Seemed balanced nicely.

Seating position was good.

I LOVE that carpet is an option.

Visibility other than straight out the back was decent. Hard to beat a 40 series or 80 series in that regard, but way better than most new vehicles where you can't see crap in any direction except straight ahead.

Overall, I was pretty pleased in how it drove. I know I listed mostly negatives, but those are the things that stand out when you go with scrutiny being your primary thought.

Price point to my way of thinking is cheap and a good value.

I like the ugliness and quirkiness. I like most things that are function is the form, whereas most vehicles are a form over function.

Anything canbus scares me, but I don't think there's any getting away from that without laying out a substantial amount of money turning a 30 year old vehicle back into a new vehicle.

When my 80 becomes too much of a liability in four or five years from mileage and rot, I was entertaining either the Ineos or a GX550. I don't like IFS, and I think the Lexus is going to be a little too posh for me. I'd like to drive one though to find out.
My Grenadier test drive didn't rule it out. Probably made it more of an option in my head. I'd still like the brand to get a few more years under it's belt before I were to purchase one.
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My daughter bought one of the first ones in the country. She still drives it daily. I have been surprised that it has been trouble free thus far. I was just looking at it yesterday and they are solid vehicles.
 
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