Another LC200 party trick hard to beat.
Ineos Grenadier (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DesmoPilot
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I must say after watching some videos and how it is being manufactured and components used and looking at the interior and things like the aircraft like overhead switch panels, it is tempting. I can see why Desmopilot posted this and I have been too harsh in my comments.
On their website there is a bit of a build configurator as well.
ineosgrenadier.com
It really looks the deal, no doubt.
Reliability, durability and things like a rattle free interior would remain to be seen.
I guess owning a 2021 LC200 from new I am not in the market until at least 2041, so maybe I can talk one of my work colleagues into one (he has a LR Defender and tends to switch vehicles often) and see how that goes...
This seems a good review including some (potential) issues with the Grenadier
On their website there is a bit of a build configurator as well.
Home
INEOS identified a gap in the market for a stripped back, utilitarian, hard-working 4X4 engineered for modern day compliance and reliability. We’re building a serious off-roader from the ground up ready for all American conditions.
ineosgrenadier.com
It really looks the deal, no doubt.
Reliability, durability and things like a rattle free interior would remain to be seen.
I guess owning a 2021 LC200 from new I am not in the market until at least 2041, so maybe I can talk one of my work colleagues into one (he has a LR Defender and tends to switch vehicles often) and see how that goes...
This seems a good review including some (potential) issues with the Grenadier
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BMW engine, hard pass.
Question to you all.
Why buy this when you can get a GX? GX seems to be a bit cheaper. Which means more room for mods.
Yes, you say, GX has the low hanging predator grill. That can be fixed via aftermarket with the money you saved.
No lockers. Good point. But it has CRAWL and rear locker from ARB is available. Rear locker + CRAWL may be ideal.
But that’s it, right?
GX may have IFS but it’s articulation thanks to KDSS is nothing short of remarkable. Probably just as good if not better than Grenadier.
I trust Toyota strong proven frame over anything else on the market.
You get trusted and tried powertrain, V8 NA smooth engine, axles, transfer case, etc.
GX is probably far more luxurious. Quiet. Bank vault. Has guaranteed Apple CarPlay.
Guaranteed quality rivaling Land Cruiser. Made from Toyota’s best factory.
Let’s not forget far better service support and parts availability. And since much of GX is shared with 4runner, GX has decent aftermarket support right out of the gate at this time.
Why buy this when you can get a GX? GX seems to be a bit cheaper. Which means more room for mods.
Yes, you say, GX has the low hanging predator grill. That can be fixed via aftermarket with the money you saved.
No lockers. Good point. But it has CRAWL and rear locker from ARB is available. Rear locker + CRAWL may be ideal.
But that’s it, right?
GX may have IFS but it’s articulation thanks to KDSS is nothing short of remarkable. Probably just as good if not better than Grenadier.
I trust Toyota strong proven frame over anything else on the market.
You get trusted and tried powertrain, V8 NA smooth engine, axles, transfer case, etc.
GX is probably far more luxurious. Quiet. Bank vault. Has guaranteed Apple CarPlay.
Guaranteed quality rivaling Land Cruiser. Made from Toyota’s best factory.
Let’s not forget far better service support and parts availability. And since much of GX is shared with 4runner, GX has decent aftermarket support right out of the gate at this time.
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Question to you all.
Why buy this when you can get a GX? It seems to be a bit cheaper. Which means more room for mods.
Yes, you say, GX has the low hanging predator grill. That can be fixed via aftermarket with the money you saved.
No lockers. Good point. But it has CRAWL and rear locker from ARB is available. Rear locker + CRAWL may be ideal.
But that’s it, right?
GX may have IFS but it’s articulation thanks to KDSS is nothing short of remarkable. Probably just as good if not better than Grenadier.
I trust Toyota strong proven frame over anything else on the market.
You get trusted and tried powertrain, V8 NA smooth engine, axles, transfer case, etc.
GX is probably far more luxurious. Quiet. Bank vault. Has guaranteed Apple CarPlay.
Guaranteed quality rivaling Land Cruiser. Made from Toyota’s best factory.
Let’s not forget far better service support and parts availability. And since much of GX is shared with 4runner, GX has decent aftermarket support right out of the gate at this time.
At the end of the day, it’s likely for aesthetic reasons, same reason people bought the Defender.
The Defenders weren't good vehicles, didn’t do anything that well, but damn they looked good.
Same scenario…. These look the part
It’s a hard argument otherwise for something that hasn’t been tested yet
bloc
SILVER Star
In an engine used for sports car type things you want low rotating mass to help responsiveness and power delivery. It’s far from absolute, but I. Low-speed off-road driving like what this vehicle should be good at with the solid axles and lockers having some rotating mass often helps with difficult terrain. This applies far less with an automatic than a manual, but you often do see different base objectives with engine traits in the two different use cases.
Yes they can tune for some of this.. a smaller turbo might limit total power output but build boost much lower in the rev range, effectively replacing displacement.
It isn’t turbo so kindof apples/oranges but the 3.5L v6 they put in the Tacoma.. lots of power compared to its antiquated 4L predecessor, but generally seen as an inferior engine in terms of the characteristics people often want in a truck engine. I’m reminded of whoever posted that many of the guys dune bashing in the Middle East prefer the Toyota 4.7 over the 5.7 because of its better mid range punch… and it has way less peak power.
I also question the ability of this engine to handle the work loads of a truck.. like extended driving in soft sand.. when it was designed more for sports car and light/sports SUV duty.
Again I don’t think it’s terrible.. but a fantastic sports car engine
Thanks!
Wonder what kind of tuning and modifications if any. Im sure someones got the scoop and has done the reading for me.
From what I remember in the N54/N55 era, they were highly tunable, and were fitted with factory twin scroll sequential twin turbos. Not sure where BM decided to take things, but the most popular mod back then was single big turbo kit. This kind of achieved the missing top end when the engine would start gasping, at the expense of some build up lag. But of course the DCTs of the era were abused and tunes could compensate somewhat off the line.
It is weird to me too though, why they didnt choose a diesel? Not that im knowledgeable on the intricacies, but I know that is kind of ideal. Maybe emissions systems issues…
bloc
SILVER Star
Modern diesels with the exhaust aftertreatment and truly high pressure fuel systems are incredibly expensive.. all for power numbers well under what can be reliably achieved with gasoline. If we were a car culture that truly stressed our truck & SUV engines diesels would have an advantage over gas because the generally more robust block and bottom end lends itself to that kind of work.. but we don't. Note that getting a powerstroke in your new superduty was about a $10k option last time I checked.
Really, it's the same reasons they didn't bring them here in the 200. Cost/benefit.
Edit: add "no demand" (from people that will put their money where their mouth is) to cost/benefit.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
The gx is a fancy 4Runner. Nothing wrong with the 4Runner, they are great (caveat, I've only owned one). What they aren't is a fully boxed, ladder framed, twin solid axle, full time 4wd, with eibach springs, bilstein dampers, brembo brakes, recaro seating, a cockpit a pilot would be home in, and sensible features like extra switches and pre wiring for accessories.Question to you all.
Why buy this when you can get a GX? GX seems to be a bit cheaper. Which means more room for mods.
Yes, you say, GX has the low hanging predator grill. That can be fixed via aftermarket with the money you saved.
No lockers. Good point. But it has CRAWL and rear locker from ARB is available. Rear locker + CRAWL may be ideal.
But that’s it, right?
GX may have IFS but it’s articulation thanks to KDSS is nothing short of remarkable. Probably just as good if not better than Grenadier.
I trust Toyota strong proven frame over anything else on the market.
You get trusted and tried powertrain, V8 NA smooth engine, axles, transfer case, etc.
GX is probably far more luxurious. Quiet. Bank vault. Has guaranteed Apple CarPlay.
Guaranteed quality rivaling Land Cruiser. Made from Toyota’s best factory.
Let’s not forget far better service support and parts availability. And since much of GX is shared with 4runner, GX has decent aftermarket support right out of the gate at this time.
Add in the availability of eaton lockers, winch, steel wheels, and at tires from the factory, and it is in a different league.
I bet if this were essentially the same thing, but built by Toyota, half of us would be falling over ourselves trying to get one.
It is the vehicle that no mainstream manufacturer has the balls to build and sell here.
Now the GX probably would win big in the school pickup line, soccer practice, and Costco run challenge, for sure.
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Of course because it would be built by a proven manufacturer, not a potential Yugo company....
bloc
SILVER Star
Add in mention of the side hinged rear door and I agree.
I remember that statement which I found perplexing. In my experience driving the 4.7 in the 4R, LX470, GX470 and 4.6 found in the GX460, I don't feel the same. The 5.7 has so much more initial torque off idle. Which makes sense with its 1L plus more displacement. I think that statement was more from the perspective of agility and less weight in the lower content cruisers.
The Grenadier being a 3.0L I6 turbo will have good low end torque by virtue of a turbo powerband. But it won't be powerful like the 200-series or even 300-series. Looks like they'll be close to mid 8s to 9s 0-60 in stock trim. Only gets slower when built and laden.
200-series LCs are in the mid 6s and 300-series touching into the 5s. Way more power to spare.
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I think a lot of that has to do with the tranny gearing in the older ones. It revved a lot more before shifting
See a lot of mention of those wanting solid axles over IFS.
Although I had the same mindset back in the day, IFS has come so far, for me personally, it’s be almost impossible for me to go back to a Solid Axle truck again…
In all reality, the majority of our time is spent on pavement or dirt roads to get to said spot that may benefit from solid axle and the ride comparison between the 2 nowadays is so drastically different, I don’t think the benefit is there anymore…
I admittedly beat the snot out of my tundra and brought it everywhere my buddy with his 80 did, without issues. I had a much nicer ride home from Cruise Moab than he did. They are plenty capable and strong.
My current truck/camper setup is solid axle and I assure you, my next one won’t be
My .02
Although I had the same mindset back in the day, IFS has come so far, for me personally, it’s be almost impossible for me to go back to a Solid Axle truck again…
In all reality, the majority of our time is spent on pavement or dirt roads to get to said spot that may benefit from solid axle and the ride comparison between the 2 nowadays is so drastically different, I don’t think the benefit is there anymore…
I admittedly beat the snot out of my tundra and brought it everywhere my buddy with his 80 did, without issues. I had a much nicer ride home from Cruise Moab than he did. They are plenty capable and strong.
My current truck/camper setup is solid axle and I assure you, my next one won’t be
My .02
See a lot of mention of those wanting solid axles over IFS.
Although I had the same mindset back in the day, IFS has come so far, for me personally, it’s be almost impossible for me to go back to a Solid Axle truck again…
In all reality, the majority of our time is spent on pavement or dirt roads to get to said spot that may benefit from solid axle and the ride comparison between the 2 nowadays is so drastically different, I don’t think the benefit is there anymore…
I admittedly beat the snot out of my tundra and brought it everywhere my buddy with his 80 did, without issues. I had a much nicer ride home from Cruise Moab than he did. They are plenty capable and strong.
My current truck/camper setup is solid axle and I assure you, my next one won’t be
My .02
It's been interesting watching the Lite Brite channel. Kevin and Britney were hardcore Jeepers wheeling at a pretty high level with their modified Jeeps. They've been stepping into the Bronco stuff lately. Tentatively at first and feeling things out. I get the sense they are pretty blown away with what IFS has to bring. Competent in rocks, but way more performance everywhere else.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
I only have experience in Qatar and what I was told was that the large v8 was unnecessary for legal speeds and adds a lot of cost. The dealer I spoke with in Doha said he never sells them.
bloc
SILVER Star
All of this plus living 900 miles from the good stuff is why I sold my awesome L92 swapped 80 and got a 200. And have exactly one regret.. the exhaust note.
I see the benefit of both, but less unsprung weight due to no a arms, strength, traction, no caster angle issues etc., SFA is still my preference off road, but no question IFS is better on road and still pretty good offroad.See a lot of mention of those wanting solid axles over IFS.
Although I had the same mindset back in the day, IFS has come so far, for me personally, it’s be almost impossible for me to go back to a Solid Axle truck again…
In all reality, the majority of our time is spent on pavement or dirt roads to get to said spot that may benefit from solid axle and the ride comparison between the 2 nowadays is so drastically different, I don’t think the benefit is there anymore…
I admittedly beat the snot out of my tundra and brought it everywhere my buddy with his 80 did, without issues. I had a much nicer ride home from Cruise Moab than he did. They are plenty capable and strong.
My current truck/camper setup is solid axle and I assure you, my next one won’t be
My .02
I have broken a few cv axles, but never a SFA.
It won't sound exactly like a pushrod LS, but I often think to uncork the 5.7 to let her sing. Then I think about towing and put thought away really quick.