Ineos Grenadier (3 Viewers)

[numby]

Yep, the lot here in Houston has over 100, I see very few on the streets and I am seeing them selling lightly used. I will not pay sticker for one new, I will wait until they start to discount them which is coming. The Quarter Master will take some of the spotlight away from the Grenadier as well which should incentivize them further.

I think your "discount" is happening now. For the first year Ineos allowed anyone to order a vehicle with a 100% refundable deposit. You didn't have to commit until the vehicle you custom ordered was on the dealer's lot and even then you could walk away without spending a penny. Most dealers in the US/NA got 500+ advance orders. Those have mostly been sold. All that's left on the lot are the orders that the "never gonnas" spec'd and a few dealer showroom models. The no-down-payment preorder option is gone and the 2025 base price has jumped with no significant model year changes ahead. In fact the starting price on Grenadiers has jumped almost 10% for each of the three years they've been on the market (they started selling in the EU and Commonwealth countries in 2022) so buy now if you can find a vehicle with the features you really want. The must haves are the high-load auxiliary wiring, the integrated tow package, and the lockers. None of those can be added after the build phase and there's no aftermarket locker option available yet. I guess you could swap in some Danas if you get a good enough deal.

 

[Adrenaline6]

The car market has just started it's crash. FOMO is the last thing people should be doing but it's your money not mine.

 

[Tex68w]

Yea, I am in no rush to run out and buy one and time is on your side in this market for likely the foreseeable future. Things will continue to drop and I still need to see a few more years of market viability before I spend money on one.

 

[numby]

The car market has just started it's crash. FOMO is the last thing people should be doing but it's your money not mine.

Nowhere did I invoke enough emphasis to suggest someone would miss the boat if they didn't buy something right effin' now. What I did do was list the facts of how Ineos pricing has progressed over the last few years and that I think you will not see general price reductions in coming months or years. Ineos Automotive is a privately owned and low volume boutique manufacturer. Most of their dealerships are a side hustle where Grenadiers are sold along side other brands so Ineos feels no compunction against pulling the plug if the business isn't making the profit they want. They've said as much.

What I think that means is that the more people sit on the sidelines the sooner the brand will disappear. This is a Toyota die-hard forum so I wouldn't expect many here to purchase one. Ever.

 

[lt403]

Still don’t know why Toyota doesn’t bring in a 70 series or make an extremely basic 200.

I remember a while back someone posted a video of an 80 series off road with heavy metal music in the background. Then the video switched to a 100 series with Celine Dion music in the background.
It was hilarious! Does anybody remember the pink panty club?

I would buy an INEOS before the new LC or GX and take a chance.

 

[skrypj]

Still don’t know why Toyota doesn’t bring in a 70 series or make an extremely basic 200.

I remember a while back someone posted a video of an 80 series off road with heavy metal music in the background. Then the video switched to a 100 series with Celine Dion music in the background.
It was hilarious! Does anybody remember the pink panty club?

I would buy an INEOS before the new LC or GX and take a chance.

Cause like 10 people on Toyota forums would actually buy a 70 and everyone else would test drive it and be like, hell no, and buy a Tacoma

 

[2021 LC200]

Still don’t know why Toyota doesn’t bring in a 70 series or make an extremely basic 200.

I remember a while back someone posted a video of an 80 series off road with heavy metal music in the background. Then the video switched to a 100 series with Celine Dion music in the background.
It was hilarious! Does anybody remember the pink panty club?

I would buy an INEOS before the new LC or GX and take a chance.

Or just buy the King of All Roads...

 

[Adrenaline6]

Nowhere did I invoke enough emphasis to suggest someone would miss the boat if they didn't buy something right effin' now. What I did do was list the facts of how Ineos pricing has progressed over the last few years and that I think you will not see general price reductions in coming months or years. Ineos Automotive is a privately owned and low volume boutique manufacturer. Most of their dealerships are a side hustle where Grenadiers are sold along side other brands so Ineos feels no compunction against pulling the plug if the business isn't making the profit they want. They've said as much.

What I think that means is that the more people sit on the sidelines the sooner the brand will disappear. This is a Toyota die-hard forum so I wouldn't expect many here to purchase one. Ever.

That statement was meant for everyone, not just you, so stop taking things so personal.

As far as Ineos pricing not being reduced in the coming years, in a recession, when no one is buying your sh*t, you reduce prices and add incentives or go bye-bye, especially when you don't have the financial ability to weather that storm. Simple economics.

They can talk as tough as they want, when push comes to shove, they will bow down to whatever methods will possibly avoid their bankruptcy.

I doubt there are many people here that would not buy one, myself included, if it was a great deal. It just isn't....and that is what will be its down fall like most everything else.

 

[numby]

That statement was meant for everyone, not just you, so stop taking things so personal.

As far as Ineos pricing not being reduced in the coming years, in a recession, when no one is buying your sh*t, you reduce prices and add incentives or go bye-bye, especially when you don't have the financial ability to weather that storm. Simple economics.

They can talk as tough as they want, when push comes to shove, they will bow down to whatever methods will possibly avoid their bankruptcy.

I doubt there are many people here that would not buy one, myself included, if it was a great deal. It just isn't....and that is what will be its down fall like most everything else.

Alright - sorry for my overreaction. I basically agree with you regarding economics but Ineos Automotive is not like your typical manufacturer. It's privately held by three individuals one of which has the overwhelming majority and control. He doesn't owe money to anybody. While he is a dedicated "businessman" (whatever that means) the whole thing is merely a passion project to fritter away some of his billions. That's billions with a B. He stated in an interview that the vehicle "had better' make money or else. They have a very small total production capacity of 30K/year but are not producing anywhere near those numbers. More like 20K. I doubt the vehicle will ever be produced on tight margins unless sales skyrocket into the stratosphere. I can't see Ineos straining to retain the infrastructure/workforce through any kind of long term harsh downturn but I guess there could be short term promotional offers to gain exposure. I think you're seeing that approach now with the oddball leftover vehicles. With their advertised price rising, a 10% price drop is still last year's cost. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Cause like 10 people on Toyota forums would actually buy a 70 and everyone else would test drive it and be like, hell no, and buy a Tacoma

Ineos' original intent was to create a modernized utilitarian LR Defender or 70 series at a sub $50k entry point. That's what caught my attention. Then they did their research and concluded nobody would buy it in high enough numbers to bother. Now they're chasing upmarket with limited releases and aiming to come in just below MB G-Wagon prices because that's where the money is. It's not a Joe Average vehicle - or won't be for long. The pickup truck version will start at $90k base price. What Tacoma/Tundra shopper is even going to consider that?

 

[Tex68w]

I won't buy one without the lockers and sadly most found with those are high spec vehicles with very few found as new left overs unsold on dealer lots. Honestly, the secondary market is likely where your best buy will be on one. The upper middle-class soccer mom or mid-management executive who had their fun with a new boutique vehicle and the niche cool factor has finally worn off and they've moved on to something more refined and with more panache. They will be found on the used lots of your luxury brands in the coming years and some have already found their way there. Hell, there's already 126 used Grenadiers for sale within 75 miles of my zip code, most of which are for sale used at the Houston Ineos or should I say Mossy Nissan dealer lol.

I'll keep an eye on the market in the next 2-3 years and see where the brand is at when the time comes for me to get a new daily. I'd love to have one on a small lift with some AT's as daily, but it has to make sense all around and right now it just doesn't.

 

[skrypj]

Alright - sorry for my overreaction. I basically agree with you regarding economics but Ineos Automotive is not like your typical manufacturer. It's privately held by three individuals one of which has the overwhelming majority and control. He doesn't owe money to anybody. While he is a dedicated "businessman" (whatever that means) the whole thing is merely a passion project to fritter away some of his billions. That's billions with a B. He stated in an interview that the vehicle "had better' make money or else. They have a very small total production capacity of 30K/year but are not producing anywhere near those numbers. More like 20K. I doubt the vehicle will ever be produced on tight margins unless sales skyrocket into the stratosphere. I can't see Ineos straining to retain the infrastructure/workforce through any kind of long term harsh downturn but I guess there could be short term promotional offers to gain exposure. I think you're seeing that approach now with the oddball leftover vehicles. With their advertised price rising, a 10% price drop is still last year's cost. Hopefully I'm wrong.



Ineos' original intent was to create a modernized utilitarian LR Defender or 70 series at a sub $50k entry point. That's what caught my attention. Then they did their research and concluded nobody would buy it in high enough numbers to bother. Now they're chasing upmarket with limited releases and aiming to come in just below MB G-Wagon prices because that's where the money is. It's not a Joe Average vehicle - or won't be for long. The pickup truck version will start at $90k base price. What Tacoma/Tundra shopper is even going to consider that?

My point was, no one is gunna want a stripped down truck with leaf springs that rides like a wooden wagon. Thats what a 70 is.

I made zero comment on the Ineos or about Tundra/Tacoma buyers cross shopping the Ineos. Not sure where you got that from.

 

[DrivenLyfe]

My point was, no one is gunna want a stripped down truck with leaf springs that rides like a wooden wagon. Thats what a 70 is.

I made zero comment on the Ineos or about Tundra/Tacoma buyers cross shopping the Ineos. Not sure where you got that from.

Not no one but agree, not enough to make it a solid business decision. I love the stripped out models of cars for the track and simple off roaders and pickups for work purposes. Many people like the thought of it, but do not and have one vehicle they use. Seems as though most folks justify in their mind that they would like to use the vehicle for off roading or tracking, but in reality just drive for daily necessities and never make it to a trail or track. Sooner or later they’ll come to the realization that while cool as the niche vehicle might be, it will suck for 90% of their actual use and they’ll decline to buy it or will get out of it asap.

 

[2021 LC200]

Zooner or later they’ll come to the realization that while cool as the niche vehicle might be, it will suck for 90% of their actual use and they’ll decline to buy it or will get out of it asap.

This is why the LC200 is IMO the perfect balance, pretty good at everything.

I do understand the Grenadier has the looks, although i find my 16+ classic Toyota looks epic as well. When I walk towards her, especially the front, I am thinking what a great looking vehicle. Falling in love more and more

 

[skrypj]

Not no one but agree, not enough to make it a solid business decision. I love the stripped out models of cars for the track and simple off roaders and pickups for work purposes. Many people like the thought of it, but do not and have one vehicle they use. Seems as though most folks justify in their mind that they would like to use the vehicle for off roading or tracking, but in reality just drive for daily necessities and never make it to a trail or track. Sooner or later they’ll come to the realization that while cool as the niche vehicle might be, it will suck for 90% of their actual use and they’ll decline to buy it or will get out of it asap.

The thing is, I think the 70 series is largely used as a commercial vehicle overseas, not as a dedicated off-roader. Some people use it offroad, but I don’t really think that’s its point.

Its how a lot of people use a 3/4 or 1 ton truck here in the US. And for most people a 3/4 or 1 ton is going to be a more useful vehicle.

It’s also going to be neutered here. It won’t have the same massive GVWR. I just saw that Ford is coming out with a Ranger Superduty that has a 9990 lb GVWR on the same platform as the normal Ranger. That would never happen here.

 

[Adrenaline6]

Not to mention US crash and new electronic safety standards have to be met which would probably require a redesign anyway.

Those "safety" requirements are put in place so we, the US citizen, will never have a low priced option on any vehicle. It always is under the guise of safety and security and most people eat it up like sheep and go about their life happily making big corps richer.

Big pharma, big food,...all the same. They pay politicians to put laws in place so they can take as much money as they can from us and use safety and security as the reason to implement it.

Just look at the cheap , cool $10,000 Toyota IMV 0. That will never come here. It would destroy sales in the work truck industry. They can't have that, when they can sell $50k to $70k trucks now can they?

 

[2021 LC200]

The remarkable truth is, well my opinion at least, that driving a less safe car more carefully and defensive is probably better for you than hurrying around in a supposedly safe car.

The saying is watch out for Volvo drivers as they are a hazard to others…

Factually back in the late eighties or early nineties Mercedes w124 (first e class with standard ABS) were compared to W123 taxi’s in Stuttgart and they had the same or higher accident rate as they just start driving more aggressive.

Oh well, the 70 would be such a nice alternative to the Wrangler…

 

[numby]

My point was, no one is gunna want a stripped down truck with leaf springs that rides like a wooden wagon. Thats what a 70 is.

I was simply adding to your speculative statement - one that I agree with - that very few people would buy a 70 here in the States. I would and maybe a few hundred others or maybe a couple of thousand. You can't make a profit on those numbers.

Ineos tried to buy JLR's Defender tooling in hopes they could continue to sell it to the markets it was already legal in. They weren't even considering the US market in the beginning. When that failed they had to start from scratch. They concluded it wasn't worth the effort to build any sort of stripped down utility 4X4 so they built something they could sell in all the major markets around the globe. Even Toyota knows not to bother re-doing the 70 Series to meet the legal requirements here and instead gussied up a Prado.

I made zero comment on the Ineos or about Tundra/Tacoma buyers cross shopping the Ineos. Not sure where you got that from.

You did mention "cross shopping" with a 70 series - i.e. - a stripped down utility 4X4. As this is an "Ineos Grenadier" thread I was, again, agreeing with you but bringing us back on topic with the mention of the slightly comparable (to a Tundra/Tacoma) Quartermaster. Those had been mentioned by someone earlier as a being able to somehow undercut Grenadier pricing or sales or something. Quartermasters are also not going to be cross shopped by buyers with Taco money and it's as close as you're getting to a modern utilitarian 4X4 in the US. The high price and somewhat minimal tec is not what anyone wants anymore outside of he HD truck segment.

 

[numby]

The remarkable truth is, well my opinion at least, that driving a less safe car more carefully and defensive is probably better for you than hurrying around in a supposedly safe car.

Absolutely true... unless all the other drivers around you don't give a damn. Airbags, crumple zones and anti-lock brakes give a lot of confidence to the careless.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

So, I drove an Ineos Grenadier yesterday at the auto show. I actually really liked it.
It felt like a spiritual successor to my FJ40 in a lot of ways. Actual buttons and switches, some tech, but not too much.
I was disappointed to find out that the tope does not come off.
The steering takes some getting used to. I felt like I over steered it going through corners (coming from driving a Tacoma for the last 15+ years).
It was a bit of a battle to get into the seat. No issue for me, as I was used to getting into my FJ40 on 35's for a decade, but I am sure my 5'4" wife would absolutely hate it.

After driving it, the sales guy asked me how I liked it and here is what I said:
"This is reminiscent of my FJ40 and thats something I Really like about it. I don't care for German engineering so the B58 motor and ZF transmission is going to be something I'd need to come to terms with for the long term. That said, I think that if these vehicles are $45k for what I just drove, I'd go put a deposit down on one on Monday. But, I know these are $90k as delivered and for the $90k, I think that there should be some more horsepower, the driver display should be in front of me, not in the middle, and I would prefer to have an option of a 6 speed manual. For the $90k price tag, I feel that a GX550 Overtrail+ would serve me much much better."

Flame away.

 

[terdrocket]

I've had mine for over a year and almost 17k miles. I'm lifted on 35s with rock rails and no steps. My family hops in with little trouble.
Mine has a tuner and throttle tuner on it and has been flawless. Made a huge difference in power.