Ineos Grenadier

[2021 LC200]

So, I drove an Ineos Grenadier yesterday at the auto show. I actually really liked it.
It felt like a spiritual successor to my FJ40 in a lot of ways. Actual buttons and switches, some tech, but not too much.
I was disappointed to find out that the tope does not come off.
The steering takes some getting used to. I felt like I over steered it going through corners (coming from driving a Tacoma for the last 15+ years).
It was a bit of a battle to get into the seat. No issue for me, as I was used to getting into my FJ40 on 35's for a decade, but I am sure my 5'4" wife would absolutely hate it.

After driving it, the sales guy asked me how I liked it and here is what I said:
"This is reminiscent of my FJ40 and thats something I Really like about it. I don't care for German engineering so the B58 motor and ZF transmission is going to be something I'd need to come to terms with for the long term. That said, I think that if these vehicles are $45k for what I just drove, I'd go put a deposit down on one on Monday. But, I know these are $90k as delivered and for the $90k, I think that there should be some more horsepower, the driver display should be in front of me, not in the middle, and I would prefer to have an option of a 6 speed manual. For the $90k price tag, I feel that a GX550 Overtrail+ would serve me much much better."

Flame away.

ZF gearbox is actually very good.

B58 I understand one of the better BMW engines. Being inline 6 is great.

All in all the Grenadier remains a specialty product coupled with expected steep depreciation and probably more maintenance challenges than a Toyota. If you can wrench that can be significantly offset.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

ZF gearbox is actually very good.

B58 I understand one of the better BMW engines. Being inline 6 is great.

All in all the Grenadier remains a specialty product coupled with expected steep depreciation and probably more maintenance challenges than a Toyota. If you can wrench that can be offset significantly.

I can absolutely wrench. I have built my FJ40 a few different times now.
That said, I would like to rinse/repeat my Tacoma... Buy new and drive it for 20 years with minimal headaches.

 

[rexington14]

That said, I would like to rinse/repeat my Tacoma... Buy new and drive it for 20 years with minimal headaches.

I'm afraid those days may be behind us, my friend. At least in the BOF segment.

A couple good options still exist outside this segment though. You can still get a 2GR in the ES350 for 1 more year before that gets redesigned (ruined). That's probably the best new buy at the moment as far as reliability expectations go.

 

[2021 LC200]

I can absolutely wrench. I have built my FJ40 a few different times now.
That said, I would like to rinse/repeat my Tacoma... Buy new and drive it for 20 years with minimal headaches.

So I have a 2014 BMW 535d deleted and it has been great and still puts a smile on my face when I drive it. With that I have ISTA+ so I can see and do just about everything on the vehicle as required. Other than the DPF removal I only had to replace an o-ring on the turbo to intercooler hose. Otherwise oil changes every 5k, new rotors and brakes about every 50k (i do not brake like a maniac…), serpentine belt, recently the PCV, tires. It drives great, super comfortable seats, precise/solid steering, excellent 8HP70 ZF gearbox, get 42 MPG at 75 on long trips. Very happy BMW owner.

For a product like the Grenadier it would be nice to understand what workshop software they use and whether you can get a copy.

Dawns on me at $90k a 200 series (that would be a low mileage 2020 or 2021) or a MB G550 (seems all the Ineos has to offer yet much more popular and expect less depreciation for a couple year old one) are options to consider. Nice problem to have, enjoy!

You can get a very recent G550 with low mileage for that type of money

ww.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/737601043

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I'm afraid those days may be behind us, my friend. At least in the BOF segment.

A couple good options still exist outside this segment though. You can still get a 2GR in the ES350 for 1 more year before that gets redesigned (ruined). That's probably the best new buy at the moment as far as reliability expectations go.

The 2GR is one of the major reasons I didn't "upgrade" to a 3rd gen Tacoma.
Vehicles without low range 4WD are not useful to me, so crossovers are not even a remote consideration.

 

[rexington14]

The 2GR is one of the major reasons I didn't "upgrade" to a 3rd gen Tacoma.
Vehicles without low range 4WD are not useful to me, so crossovers are not even a remote consideration.

Not great in the Tacoma but fantastic in the non BOF applications like ES, RX, Avalon, Highlander, you name it. Mostly phased out now except in the ES and IS.

Similarly, now Toyota is stuffing it's replacement the T24A in almost everything. From the NX crossover to the BOF Tacoma, 4Runner and LC.

Good luck on the new market.

 

[JackAttack13]

So, I drove an Ineos Grenadier yesterday at the auto show. I actually really liked it.
It felt like a spiritual successor to my FJ40 in a lot of ways. Actual buttons and switches, some tech, but not too much.
I was disappointed to find out that the tope does not come off.
The steering takes some getting used to. I felt like I over steered it going through corners (coming from driving a Tacoma for the last 15+ years).
It was a bit of a battle to get into the seat. No issue for me, as I was used to getting into my FJ40 on 35's for a decade, but I am sure my 5'4" wife would absolutely hate it.

After driving it, the sales guy asked me how I liked it and here is what I said:
"This is reminiscent of my FJ40 and thats something I Really like about it. I don't care for German engineering so the B58 motor and ZF transmission is going to be something I'd need to come to terms with for the long term. That said, I think that if these vehicles are $45k for what I just drove, I'd go put a deposit down on one on Monday. But, I know these are $90k as delivered and for the $90k, I think that there should be some more horsepower, the driver display should be in front of me, not in the middle, and I would prefer to have an option of a 6 speed manual. For the $90k price tag, I feel that a GX550 Overtrail+ would serve me much much better."

Flame away.

The trucks powertrain is my favorite feature. It never hunts for gears, always has enough grunt to pass easily, and in low range it crawls effortlessly through the rough stuff. Out of all of the quirks it has, the power train is where they nailed it. It's such a stark difference from my 99' 100 Series which couldn't get out of its own way if it tried. Lol.

 

[2021 LC200]

The trucks powertrain is my favorite feature. It never hunts for gears, always has enough grunt to pass easily, and in low range it crawls effortlessly through the rough stuff. Out of all of the quirks it has, the power train is where they nailed it. It's such a stark difference from my 99' 100 Series which couldn't get out of its own way if it tried. Lol.

Interesting. My BMW 535d diesel inline 6 coupled with the ZF 8 speed is motor/transmission management wise the very best of any vehicle I have owned. I would expect the Grenadier to be excellent in that space. Toyota could learn from that IMO.

 

[JackAttack13]

Interesting. My BMW 535d diesel inline 6 coupled with the ZF 8 speed is motor/transmission management wise the very best of any vehicle I have owned. I would expect the Grenadier to be excellent in that space. Toyota could learn from that IMO.

Agree. I test drove the 250 and it was lackluster to say the least. It felt unrefined and clunky in comparison to the B58/ZF combo in the Grenadier. The sad thing is that people now new to Land Cruisers because of the 250 think that this is the LC standard.

 

[gasman4u]

I only ever had experience with a z4 with the N52? inline 3.0 six cylinder engine for my better half. Zero issues with the car, but we didn't keep it past the 4 yr mark due to the horror stories of maintenance costs long term. It was great fun to drive and the engine/trans combo seemed excellent too.

The only reason I mention this is that I would hope the better performing inline 6 for the grenadier and whatever they mated it to would mirror similar experiences behind the wheel.

Looks like Ineos is experimenting with a 6.2L GM v8 concept too...interesting for sure. If it has active fuel management, it's likely going to be not as reliable as they're looking for...IMO anyways.

Mansory Tunes The Ineos Grenadier's BMW B58 Engine

The Ineos Grenadier off-roader gets a stronger inline-six BMW engine courtesy of an aftermarket upgrade from controversial tuner Mansory.

www.bmwblog.com

 

[Biff]

I’ve been eyeing a used trail master, in lieu of a 250 first edition. I do love the utilitarian look of the Grenadier

 

[2021 LC200]

The sad thing is that people now new to Land Cruisers because of the 250 think that this is the LC standard.

I can see that. I personally do not consider a 250 series a Land Cruiser. It is a Land Cruiser PRADO aka Prado and follow up of the same. For some it maybe the perfect vehicle, for some if not many of us it does not have the functionality/capability of the 80/100/200 series lineage. There have also been suspension failures reported with the 250 in Australia. Possible today Light Duty with computer aided design is truly Light Duty.

I would say when considering a Grenadier I would also test drive a 200 series (in LC or LX form) and a G Wagen (probably the 550 instead of the AMG). Both are more allround capable. The Grenadier seems more like a one trick pony, similar to a Wrangler Unlimited. Depending on your location (say close to many interesting trails) that could be perfect. Good luck with the choice. Definitely do not pay MRSP or the second hand asking price. New Grenadiers are not selling and many low mileage used ones are for sale (that itself is a sign), so they will have to come down.

 

[TheHighlander]

Interesting. My BMW 535d diesel inline 6 coupled with the ZF 8 speed is motor/transmission management wise the very best of any vehicle I have owned. I would expect the Grenadier to be excellent in that space. Toyota could learn from that IMO.

Well, someone at Toyota is noticing and learning something because they used BMW's twin turbo Inline-6 (B58) engine (+ZF 8 speed!) in the Toyota Supra Too bad they didn't stuff that powertrain (and the diesel variant as an option!) into the LC250!

And yes, I'm semi-joking. Semi. I understand that part of the appeal of the LC has historically been the bullet proof Toyota drivetrain, so a German beating heart is sacrilegious. But looking at the 4 banger in the LC250, I'd take the BMW B58 any day!

 

[2021 LC200]

Well, someone at Toyota is noticing and learning something because they used BMW's twin turbo Inline-6 (B58) engine (+ZF 8 speed!) in the Toyota Supra Too bad they didn't stuff that powertrain (and the diesel variant as an option!) into the LC250!

And yes, I'm semi-joking. Semi. I understand that part of the appeal of the LC has historically been the bullet proof Toyota drivetrain, so a German beating heart is sacrilegious. But looking at the 4 banger in the LC250, I'd take the BMW B58 any day!

Yep, was thinking the same. Or rather have Toyota develop an I6 from scratch or size up their I4 to an I6.

 

[bj70bc]

or just address the v35 issues openly and publicly and then offer that....
its in the gx afterall,
no battery hump... more power... third row option

 

[2021 LC200]

or just address the v35 issues openly and publicly and then offer that....
its in the gx afterall,
no battery hump... more power... third row option

Yes, Toyota needs to fix the TTV6

 

[bj70bc]

i own one, love it, other than the self exploding bearing function

Yes, Toyota needs to fix the TTV6

 

[2021 LC200]

i own one, love it, other than the self exploding bearing function

Perhaps you have no swarf issue or it has been caught by the suction strainer. Fingers crossed.

When I look at higher performing engines in general I would recommend taking it easy the first say 5 min to let things warm up, good for tolerances and the oil. I have the feeling this is something many owners do not do. In fact I see the most basic cars accelerate like mad from the moment they drive off. Some will say it should be able to take it, I would say it is wise to do like running in your engine the first 1000 miles.

 

[bj70bc]

i found more sparkle than i would have liked on the first two oil changes at 500km and 1000km.... ( not much at 2500 5000 and 10000)
but I digress..... this is an Ineos thread

 

[sogncab]

I've had mine for over a year and almost 17k miles. I'm lifted on 35s with rock rails and no steps. My family hops in with little trouble.
Mine has a tuner and throttle tuner on it and has been flawless. Made a huge difference in power.

The Toyota kids driving the BMW Supra are pulling some pretty big power numbers with few failures.





My 80 should go another 100k miles before the body is gone and the mechanical upkeep becomes too great of a cost to justify.

When the 80 dies in probably 3 years, it'll either be the Lexus Prado, or the Grenadier. Mostly leaning towards the Grenadier. I want 4wd, the Prado only comes in 3wd. I don't want IFS.

It'd be fun if Ineos sold a glider, and put whatever you want for powertrain in. Strip and simplify the wiring and get rid of the canbus failpoint. Which is kind of a null point, you just dump it and get another before the warranty is up, just like every single other new vehicle.

I also wish they sold the Grenadier with a part time transfer case. I find AWD in anything but a car annoying.