Include a winch with new bumper? Pros, cons, why? (1 Viewer)

[Dan Higgins]

I almost posted this in @Markuson's thread on whether or not you can overdo mods on our trucks. I am seriously considering an ARB Summit bumper w/ additional lighting for my 2016. We drive a lot of back roads and forest roads at twilight and in the dark. And we do tend to see a fair number of deer. (On a trip to Moab a couple weeks ago we drove the La Sal Mountain Loop road and saw three deer carcasses. A year ago a deer ran right across in front of us as we were coming down from Soldier Pass into Provo, UT - that's a 4-lane highway where I think the speed limit is 65. My wife was driving. Very near miss and kinda freaked her out. And we spend a lot of time in the forests of the Rocky Mountains states and the PNW.)

Also, 80%+ of my driving is highway getting from CO to the PNW and parts in between and unknown.

Anyway, the question I have is why would I want to add a winch? When I go off road I stick to "easy" and an occasional "moderate" trail. I'm not a "wheeler" per se. But I do often go alone. My wife doesn't like the idea of a winch. She thinks that is too much. I have never had a need for one so I tend to agree. But some on here have found that a winch has saved their bacon or otherwise proved useful if not for themselves them maybe to help out someone else. @pcut (the "hundy lurker" posted on Mark's thread that among his past mods a winch was a "win". @mcgaskins is trying to keep mods to his new 2016 (same year as mine) to a minimum but is considering a bumper primarily to support a winch.

So, assuming I have Slee put on the bumper, should I also do a winch? Why or why not. Or better yet. What should I be considering? And how much winch do I need?

P.S. If this topic has been addressed extensively elsewhere let me know and we can cut this off. When I searched I found plenty of references to a winch but most were about how to do it, not whether to do it.

Thanks

 

[mcgaskins]

Here is a story I posted on FB a couple weeks ago when discussing some of our “stuck” situations. The way I look at it is you will not need a winch 99.9% of the time, but that 0.01% you will pray you have one. I have had winches on most of my trucks including a CJ5, 100, 200, Tacoma, etc. so I now feel quite “naked” without one. I’ve only needed it twice to save my own bacon, but I have used it many more times to pull other people out. There’s no right answer here, but IMO for solo travelers it’s worth it’s weight on gold if you need it. Also keep in mind you will need to practice with it and get trained in the safe operation if you don’t have much experience. They can be as dangerous as helpful kinda like a hi lift!

Longish story for those inclined:

A couple years ago, a few of us guys were wheeling in my 100 and a Tacoma as part of my bro in law's bachelor party. The Tacoma got stuck in this soft marshy trail that hadn't been used in a long time. I used a snatch strap to yank him out, but it was important for me to show everyone how superior my driving skills and 100 were. I proceeded to plow right through the spot where he got stuck, and decided to double down by flipping a U turn and driving back through it again. At that point, my portly 100 sank in the marsh up to the frame rails and was so stuck that it felt like it was cemented to earth.

It was about to get worse however. The soft/muddy/marshy ground was saturated, and seemingly out of nowhere water began to trickle in around the truck. A few hours went by with us digging and attempting to use the Tacoma as an anchor for my winch, but it just pulled the Tacoma backwards into what was quickly becoming a little swamp. Darkness was approaching, and the water kept rising to the point it looked like it would consume the 100 if we didn't get it out asap. We called a local tow company, but he assessed the situation, tried to get within a few hundred feet of the 100 and sank as well and got stuck.

We were able to get him pulled out since he was still on somewhat stable ground, but he said he wasn't going to be able help us - it was far too risky. He literally recommended calling a helicopter and thought that would be the only solution, so that's when the gravity of the situation truly set in. The only remaining option he could think of is to use these heavy duty wheel chocks with big teeth (later found out they're called scotch blocks) to put behind the rear wheels of the Tacoma, and then use the Tacoma again as an anchor to winch off of. The water had risen and the ground softened a lot more in the hours that passed, so it was incredibly sketchy getting the Tacoma back in place close enough to the 100.

We used every last bit of winch line, winch line extension, and a tow strap to get to connect the 100 to the Tacoma, and we put the scotch blocks behind the tires and hoped for the best while the tow truck driver watched while shaking his head in disbelief. The winch whined loudly under the strain and millimeter by millimeter pulled the truck forward enough for me to floor it and get just enough traction to grab the branches and logs we had jammed under the tires in the past few hours. The 100 was finally under its own power as we loaded up and barely made it out with both trucks and our gear before the water rose to the point the truck likely would have been a total loss. The sunset had already come and gone long ago by the time we got to solid ground and began airing up...with several hundred pounds of added mud attached to each truck. It wasn't exactly how we planned the day, but I doubt any of us will forget how it ended up!

Keep in mind this pic was taken at the beginning of the situation many hours before the water rose and the darkness set in. We were working too hard and were too distracted to think of taking pics when things got more serious later unfortunately! Good times!

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Yeah know Dan, I’ve been thinking about your potentiometer front bumper since you mentioned it a few days ago.

Lights aside. I don’t think you’ll like a front steel bumper. You’re going to take at least a 2 mpg, maybe even 3, reduction just because of aerodynamic loss. Then you’re going to have to deal with the suspension to make having a 150-200 pounds hanging off the front of the truck ride nice.

If it was me, I’d figure out auxiliary lighting by some other means.

 

[Markuson]

I almost posted this in @Markuson's thread on whether or not you can overdo mods on our trucks. I am seriously considering an ARB Summit bumper w/ additional lighting for my 2016. We drive a lot of back roads and forest roads at twilight and in the dark. And we do tend to see a fair number of deer. (On a trip to Moab a couple weeks ago we drove the La Sal Mountain Loop road and saw three deer carcasses. A year ago a deer ran right across in front of us as we were coming down from Soldier Pass into Provo, UT - that's a 4-lane highway where I think the speed limit is 65. My wife was driving. Very near miss and kinda freaked her out. And we spend a lot of time in the forests of the Rocky Mountains states and the PNW.)

Also, 80%+ of my driving is highway getting from CO to the PNW and parts in between and unknown.

Anyway, the question I have is why would I want to add a winch? When I go off road I stick to "easy" and an occasional "moderate" trail. I'm not a "wheeler" per se. But I do often go alone. My wife doesn't like the idea of a winch. She thinks that is too much. I have never had a need for one so I tend to agree. But some on here have found that a winch has saved their bacon or otherwise proved useful if not for themselves them maybe to help out someone else. @pcut (the "hundy lurker" posted on Mark's thread that among his past mods a winch was a "win". @mcgaskins is trying to keep mods to his new 2016 (same year as mine) to a minimum but is considering a bumper primarily to support a winch.

So, assuming I have Slee put on the bumper, should I also do a winch? Why or why not. Or better yet. What should I be considering? And how much winch do I need?

P.S. If this topic has been addressed extensively elsewhere let me know and we can cut this off. When I searched I found plenty of references to a winch but most were about how to do it, not whether to do it.

Thanks

You might be surprised how easily you can become hung up, or high centered.

This scrape is physically small...but you can see how much force it would take to dig THROUGH this rear control arm mount...

It was a small, unnoticed protrusion on a rock that I otherwise easily cleared...but it was as though the little protrusion has been perfectly “designed” to grab...and not let go.

My winch took me off of this devilishly nasty spot. If you’re in a big group, you can get help. But if not? A winch can really make a big pain into a small pain.

Granted there would have been other possibilities for extraction...but every one of them would have been a PITA.

As for deer strikes?

I look at is as either now with your money...or later with insurance money (and a ruined trip, not to mention possible injury). Bull bars save trucks and sometimes your hide.

But as @Taco2Cruiser says... it might not be worth the trade-off to ya.

Like bilong you...

 

[TimCFJ40]

I, like several others have had a winch on many trucks. If you plan to venture out alone, it’s worth the $$ to me for the peace of mind. I’d put no less than a10-12k lb winch on a 200. I’d also recommend synthetic line for safety and weight savings. For under $800 you should be able to find a Smittybilt xO or Warn VR series 12k lb winch already spooled with synthetic line. These are fairly well regarded as far as budget winches. Just look at it this way... if you make a mistake and end up in a ditch or in a deeper hole than you expected and you’re alone and have spotty cell service, you’d gladly pay twice that to be delivered to safety... I look at my winch like insurance. I hope to not need it, but it’s always there if things go south for me or someone I can help...

 

[cmck]

Pros: When you put on a bumper sometimes the winch is captive and goes on at the same or adding it later is a Pia.
In the world of vehicle recovery or obstacle conquering sometimes the winch is the ideal safest method. If you wheel with just one truck or stock trucks mostly, it provides a margin of self recovery not much else does. Safety and reduced risk of damage to a nice truck sometimes means combining a winch and other recovery methods. You get to pull out your stock jeep friends in the comfort of your ac, leather seated, tunes cranking land cruiser or lexus.

Cons: It’s $$$. It adds weight up front. You have to practice, learn and be safe or you might have an accident of some kind. You might not use it for months.

I have a winch, I wheel on moderate “greens and blues” 5-6 days a year and I have used it a few times. I don’t regret spending the money and having the winch.

 

[pcut]

What they said.

 

[Union]

I fully plan on grabbing a winch for my steel bumper when I put it on. I don't want to have to take off the bumper when I decide later that I may want a winch (probably after I get stuck and wish I had one). I, like most of the people here would rather rely on myself first, when I'm out and about and then look outwards for assistance if necessary.

 

[ckkone]

I also mainly stick to easy trails and I’ve used my winch twice in the last year. Once to move a downed tree out of the road and once to assist on a icy hill. In both situations it was not life or death that I had it but it was convenient. I didn’t want to spend tons of coin on a winch and ended up with a Smittybilt XRC 9.5, they have a good warranty and it’s all I will ever need.

On sale right now for $383

https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/smitt...e-with-aluminum-fairlead-98495/_/R-DSBP-98495

 

[18Cruiser]

I don't have one on my LC but I do use mine on my F150 for a lot of things. I use it for the obvious situations where there is no one else to pull me out when I am stuck at the deer lease but also to hang deer while cleaning them. I also will hang them over night or longer and tie them off if we can let them hang to tenderize the meat. It just saves time and effort. Also, have used it to put my brother's gate back on its tracks rather than have him call someone.

Once the LC is less of DD, the F150 dies and no longer taking kids hunting and camping, I will definitely put one on the LC.

 

[TonyP]

If you do get one, I suggest the most powerful one you can fit in your bumper. Which is usually a 12k.

 

[Markuson]

If you’re looking at warn...I think the Zeon 12,000 and 10,000 pound models are the same physical size… So you may as well get a 12.

 

[TeCKis300]

LC in the Middle East and Gulf Region have the option of an OEM 8k winch. Not sure if this answers the question if you should get one. Perhaps a smaller one to minimize weight impacts if that's what you're on the fence about? Could use a snatch block to double pulling power. Then again, for a situation like @mcgaskins, he needed all the length possible.

 

[TonyP]

Please don't get a small winch.
Duty cycle and max pull per drum wraps are a thing.

Some light reading:
Winch comparison - Understanding winch ratings - mikesjeep.com

 

[Markuson]

Please don't get a small winch.
Duty cycle and max pull per drum wraps are a thing.

Some light reading:
Winch comparison - Understanding winch ratings - mikesjeep.com

I really don’t see the point of skimping on pull over saving weight on a winch. What’s the weight difference between an 8, 10 and 12? Seems like you can save more weight elsewhere.

Maybe if you almost never use it... then the hassle of relying on a snatch block is ok...but if you wheel in groups, you can end up winching others pretty often. I’d much rather have the power to avoid the complexity of a snatch block. I carry a snatch, and will gladly use it if dealing with mud suction and other pull-killers...but other than that, it’s super nice to be able to just pull line...hook on...and pull.

My tendency is to save a bit longer for what I REALLY want...rather than go minimum...and either regret it, or worse...buy TWICE.

I dunno...

We are all SO different in our use and habits that it starts to feel weird suggesting anything too strongly.

 

[jblatl]

The Warn M12 fits perfectly in the 200 bumper, no problems. I did have to purchase the motor extension wire kit. These are heavy trucks, get the biggest one you can!

I believe the Warn M12 and the 12000 are identical, I have both and they look the same but have different control boxes and the plug on the controller is different.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I really don’t see the point of skimping on pull over saving weight on a winch. What’s the weight difference between an 8, 10 and 12? Seems like you can save more weight elsewhere.

Maybe if you almost never use it... then the hassle of relying on a snatch block is ok...but if you wheel in groups, you can end up winching others pretty often. I’d much rather have the power to avoid the complexity of a snatch block. I carry a snatch, and will gladly use it if dealing with mud suction and other pull-killers...but other than that, it’s super nice to be able to just pull line...hook on...and pull.

My tendency is to save a bit longer for what I REALLY want...rather than go minimum...and either regret it, or worse...buy TWICE.

I dunno...

We are all SO different in our use and habits that it starts to feel weird suggesting anything too strongly.

Agreed. Our habits and driving style makes recommending products not a clear cut answer.

To convolute the conversation more, between 8k, 10k, 12k winches...

I have an old Warn 9.5xp, and it is small enough to get in and out of the ARB winch bar without taking the bar itself, off. But strong enough to pull the 200 out of deep south east gumbo mud with suction and a heavy dragged rear axle with only a single line pull. (Side note Mark, I always use a snatch block if I can)

Winches like everything, require mainenance. Sure you’ll hear about guys saying “pshhh, I’ve never done anything to mine.” And those guys usually don’t change their oil when it’s due also. But I promise, 90% of us with winches, have rusty drums, and rust on synthetic lines lead to snaps. And if your synthetic line snaps, no biggy. But if you don’t know how to properly splice again, it’s going to just pull apart again. So Dan, don’t think once that winch is in there, you can leave it for a decade.

One thing for absolute sure, @Dan Higgins, get some formalized training on winch use please. If you’re asking if you need one or not, it’s obvious you’re not used to them, which is fine, but needs to be taken into account. The mind is the ultimate weapon, all else is supplemental. I trust no one with any recovery equipment. Just because someone can buy something, doesn’t mean they can use it. And during a recovery, if you don’t know what you’re doing, then you may become more frantic or allow others to make bad decisions with the tens of thousands of dollars of equipment you have just gotten stuck.

This is the one thing that I will always say you must do. Once you’ve seen a guy get his abdomin sliced open from a snapped winch line, and another guy get his hand sucked into a fair lead, you’ll wish you knew what the hell you where doing.

 

[linuxgod]

If you're going to spend the $ on a bumper, get a winch. I got a Warn VR12S for $800. Consider it an insurance policy, and it's potentially cheaper than a tow truck if you get stuck somewhere remote. Also carry a bag of misc recovery gear (hard and soft shackles, ropes, tree saver, snatch block, etc). Now whether you really want to do a bumper might be a different question (pros are more protection, but cons include weight, MPG, longer vehicle length, etc).

We were on a forest trail in Michigan's UP last summer about a month before I had my new bumper and winch. The kind you could easily do in any 4WD vehicle with moderate ground clearance, probably even a Subaru save for one tree we had to crawl over. We got to a spot where there was standing water on the trail, about 20' around. It didn't look that deep, but I'd sloshed through some mud further up the trail in a spot that didn't look too bad but ended up being deeper than it looked and I decided my options were to back up or else walk the "puddle" and see how deep and soft it really was since we hadn't seen anyone on the trails all day. My kids were egging me on to just go, but ultimately I decided I didn't want to risk it or walk it first and thankfully we'd only been on that spur for a minute so I ended up backing up the trail and taking a different path. If I'd driven through the muddy puddle though... maybe I would've been fine or maybe I would've been stuck and had to hike out or wait possibly hours for someone else to come along.

To be fair I'm not a winching expert and I try not to wheel alone on challenging trails. But if you do explore alone it only takes misjudging one easy looking spot for you to regret the decision.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Lots of great, helpful info and thoughts here! Thanks. One data point is that our LC currently weighs in between 6500 and 6800#. I'm not sure the bumper and winch will add noticeable more weight though it will be in front. I also will need to strengthen the front springs as they are currently 2700s and I have a 1" rake (due to 2721s on the rear to soften the ride when I am not towing.) Bottom line is that I'll probably move up 1 or 2 levels to reduce the rake and support the weight. Slee will help me dial that in.

 

[Sandroad]

Good topic. I’ve thought a lot about a winch. I drive quite a bit in deep sand in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, often pulling a loaded utility trailer, and have been stuck in other vehicles. Getting high-centered in sand usually results in lots of digging and re-engineering the ruts. However, I’ve never been even close to stuck in an LC in sand (Well, I came close once in an 80 that had to climb a steep hill in powder sand, but it made it!). I have a small 2500lb Warn portable 12V ATV winch with synthetic line that I use for generally pulling duty like pulling down trees, raising antenna towers, moving logs off the roads, etc. I’m afraid of it, even with it’s low power, and replace the line more often than I need to. I have 2 reasons I’m thinking of a large capacity winch someday, perhaps a hitch mounted Warn (so I don’t have to always carry it or have a bumper). One is that I’m getting too old to “enjoy” digging out a stuck vehicle. The sand dune trails I use are extremely infrequently traveled by other vehicles and out of cell phone range, so I’m on my own. I trust the LC, especially with crawl mode, but that one time I screw up and bury it while towing my utility trailer, having a winch would be a religious experience. The other reason is that someday (hasn’t happened yet), I’ll come across someone else stuck blocking the trail and my tow straps (always in the LC) won’t be enough to pull them out. So, more thinking to come, and I’ll likely just go with Maxtrax and call it good. But this thread has me wondering again.