Include a winch with new bumper? Pros, cons, why?

[TonyP]

That's one perspective.

The difference between a 12k winch and no winch is 136lbs. Plus supporting installation and accessories. Easily greater than 10% the stock payload capacity.

Consider a guy with a football. Barely any weight. Do an obstacle course with it tucked. Versus held out in front. That's a difference that some may want to consider.

To your point, the OE which is an 8k. Sized for a stock vehicle. A modified vehicle will want more.

Are we arguing something different now? I can't keep up.

And a Warn Zeon 12k is 76 pounds.

I took science in 5th grade, I understand CoG.

 

[Haggis]

Great thread. I have a Warn M8000 on my Tacoma and a Warn VR10000 on my 60. I was debating on whether to add a winch to my 200. I don't like NOT having a winch...i regret not doing it during my initial build and am now leaning towards the Zeon 12 Synthetic. Do I need to remove the whole bumper to add the Zeon? Installing the bumper was the biggest PITA I have ever gotten myself into....

 

[Mendocino]

Great thread. I have a Warn M8000 on my Tacoma and a Warn VR10000 on my 60. I was debating on whether to add a winch to my 200. I don't like NOT having a winch...i regret not doing it during my initial build and am now leaning towards the Zeon 12 Synthetic. Do I need to remove the whole bumper to add the Zeon? Installing the bumper was the biggest PITA I have ever gotten myself into....

If you have an ARB bumper, you have to remove the bumper to install the winch. This was a significant motivator for me to install the winch today when they were adding the front bumper.

 

[DirtNap]

I would be very interested to see this source, because in almost every recovery I've been involved in that is most definitely not the case. I'd be curious to see how he measured how much force was required.

My mild built truck weighs 6700 pounds before passengers. You sink that into deep snow, mud, sand, etc. I can guarantee it's going to take a lot more than 2500 pounds of force to yank it out. I think the 1.5x the GVWR is a wise rule of thumb, and coming from someone who's buried a 100 over the frame rails in mud and used 100% (probably more like 120%) of the 10k winch's capacity I feel very confident in that recommendation.

It was a while ago, but I’m *pretty* sure it was on the 4x4 Earth podcast. So sorry, but I am not going to re-listen to them all to figure out which one (-: But some of them were annotated so I’ll take a quick look. IDK how he measured either. I was thinking maybe there was a way to calculate it from the voltage x current consumption.

Full disclaimer, I have zero experience winching so trying to offset that by learning from y’all. I have a 12k on the shelf, waiting for me to decide how to go about mounting it.

 

[TonyP]

Yeah that doesn't seem accurate. Maybe on flat ground or out of ditches. Not sure how he's measuring also.

During the Hell Night Moab Trip, there was definitely a lot more than that on my line winching myself and others over stuff. I could hear it in the 12k winch and see it in my suspension compression.

 

[DirtNap]

Couldn’t find the podcast (but I do recommend it!). But doing a little google-fu I came upon this guide from Superwinch about recoveries. Good read. Page 5 and 6 provides some ways to estimate the forces based on terrain, slope, and vehicle damage. Of course, who knows the source of their estimates, but without running tons of numbers, yeah, the load is generally 1/2 vehicle weight...until you get into steeper slopes and/or a locked wheel. (The guide appears to be targeted at tow operators).

I would also add that as with tow ratings, winch ratings are a little arbitrary, so having the trusted 1.5x probably also keeps you safe from some rating inflation.

 

[Haggis]

I do have the ARB bumper...sh#t. I should have done it from the git go.

 

[TimCFJ40]

In these two pics, how would I have used a winch to get myself out of the snow? It was shortly after this experience that I purchased a pair of MaxTrax which I always carry with me. (Also note that I am not in the pics. The guy sitting on the snow is one of 2 adventure motorcyclists that happened by and spent 3 hours helping dig us out!)

View attachment 1842712 View attachment 1842713

Depending on the depth and composition of the snow, one could bury the spare tire, like can be done in sand, to use as an anchor.

 

[tabraha]

My favorite winch pic:

from my favorite winch reference page: www.warn.com

 

[jblatl]

WOW
That picture is worth more that words can describe!

 

[Dan Higgins]

My favorite winch pic:

from my favorite winch reference page: www.warn.com

OK. I'm mechanically challenged. Is bigger or smaller better? I would assume in my ignorance that bigger is better.

 

[Dan Higgins]

@TeCKis300 strongly "encouraged" me to get some training should I choose to get a winch. Having seen an article on winching on Expedition Portal I went searching for it. Not only did I find that article but a also an article on what should be in your winch kit. I know these articles are high level overviews with some key points but it is a start. For those who, like me, lack experience with a winch but are considering one (possibly after looking at this thread) I have provided the links below:
What’s in your winch bag? The basic gear you should be carrying
Winching without the Worry

Reading articles are never a substitute for experience but they can fill in some background information and help you prepare for and get more out of the experience.

BTW, I am 90% sure I will get a winch. It will be a 12K capacity. Which one will depend on the fit on a 2016 with the ARB Summit bar which I would also get.

Thanks again for everyone's input! I hope to see many of you at LCDC this Summer.

 

[linuxgod]

BTW, I am 90% sure I will get a winch. It will be a 12K capacity. Which one will depend on the fit on a 2016 with the ARB Summit bar which I would also get.

The Warn VR12S is the sweet spot for occasional use, IMO. That's the direction I went after weeks of analysis.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks, Geoff. Knowing the way you approach things I am sure there was a lot of analysis!

 

[fireball]

I am very happy with my warm vr10000s on my 100. Would recommend it, and would put a 12000 on the 200.

It has seen a lot of use.

 

[TeCKis300]

@Dan Higgins , I blieve

@TeCKis300 strongly "encouraged" me to get some training should I choose to get a winch. Having seen an article on winching on Expedition Portal I went searching for it. Not only did I find that article but a also an article on what should be in your winch kit. I know these articles are high level overviews with some key points but it is a start. For those who, like me, lack experience with a winch but are considering one (possibly after looking at this thread) I have provided the links below:
What’s in your winch bag? The basic gear you should be carrying
Winching without the Worry

Reading articles are never a substitute for experience but they can fill in some background information and help you prepare for and get more out of the experience.

BTW, I am 90% sure I will get a winch. It will be a 12K capacity. Which one will depend on the fit on a 2016 with the ARB Summit bar which I would also get.

Thanks again for everyone's input! I hope to see many of you at LCDC this Summer.

I believe it was @Taco2Cruiser who gets credit here.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks for the correction! @Taco2Cruiser, thanks for the “encouragement”. Between getting my HAM license and learning how to use a winch I now have something to keep me busy for the next couple months of retirement.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Thanks for the correction! @Taco2Cruiser, thanks for the “encouragement”. Between getting my HAM license and learning how to use a winch I now have something to keep me busy for the next couple months of retirement.

Anytime.

Most likely I’ll be a LCDC, and I’d be more than happy to walk you though a bit more of an advanced recovery class or even better... if you want to run you’re own equipment in a mock recovery, I’ll be right there to make sure it is sound.

Give you a bit more hands on time.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Anytime.

Most likely I’ll be a LCDC, and I’d be more than happy to walk you though a bit more of an advanced recovery class or even better... if you want to run you’re own equipment in a mock recovery, I’ll be right there to make sure it is sound.

Give you a bit more hands on time.

That would be awesome. I’ll be there. We’ll be coming in on Wednesday.

 

[mcgaskins]

@Dan Higgins if you want to get together I’ll bet we could get a nice little group together to do some skills training and testing on the Front Range. I am planning to have a winch as well in the not too distant future so we could go test them out (and tension the line which must be done before really using it) and use snatch blocks, line dampeners, etc. Sounds like a good time to me.