IFS or axle swap ??

[roamingaz]

I bought a very clean '90 pickup , my plans were to mainly use it to tow my fishing boat and some weekend trail rides. My build up is focused on expedition travel ,no major rock crawling but I do have some small boulder fields I would like to drive over.
OK heres my issue. I don't really need any lift because I am only running 31's, I did plan on some heavy torsion bars to bring the front back up after adding a bumper and winch. I want my truck to be reliable but I have read a lot of bad press about the IFS front suspension so I am looking at ways to upgrade, so far I have found Downy and Total Chaos long travel kits to be a great option but as I continue to read about these IFS trucks everyone is swaping in a solid axle, it sounds pretty easy but I already have a new gears and a ARB locker in the front of this IFS and they will not interchenge. I dont mind spending money on the right parts but this truck already having the locker and gears was a selling point for me.
Is a IFS really as weak as a egg shell as most say they are?
I really don't want to be stranded on a remote desert road with a busted cv joint.
anyone have a solid axle for sale?

 

[fortysixandtwo]

The IFS on the 86-95 Toyotas is actually pretty stout for an IFS set up. The Solid Axle with leaf springs in front is definitely superior for hardcore rock crawling but it doesnt sound like you really need a solid axle. Seeing as you already invested in gears and lockers for your IFS front end, it sounds to me like a Total Chaos or Downey IFS lift is right up your alley. A busted CV isnt that big of a deal, just carry a few spares with you. The smooth ride on the road and offroad combined with the extra wheel travel will get you up and over pretty much anything in your path.

 

[fourwd1]

I gotta agree, I've wheeled in the rocks with guys on IFS. They beat the heck out of it and it takes it. An occaisional broken CV isn't too bad. Unless you plan on lots of hardcore rockcrawling, IFS will serve you well.

 

[ms018kmf]

I had a front row seat to my rig's PO explode a front CV axle . It broke where the splines end meeting the joint housing. The truck was revving like crazy around 4k, twisted on a rock with the traction breaking back and forth between the front tires (33x12's). It took a lot of force and it was completely unnecessary (a learning experience). If you're wheeling with some experience and planning you should be fine locked up as is. I have no CV issues and there running constantly, 4wd nonstop till spring.

I do recommend the TC Idler arm for any IFS setup but would not recommend extensive IFS upgrades unless you need to push 55+ or fly low . The work involved is substantial, very planning and fabrication intensive.

 

[Hypoid]

Supposedly you can fit 33x10.50 without rubbing, and likely you'll like that, but lockers seem to get you way further than a larger radius. Idler arm brace seems too be common here too.

Solid axle shows up more for super articulation for rock crawling. IFS wil likely serve you well, and you've already got a selectable locker.

Torsion bars are easily adjusted and flex better in the stock size than "HD" bars.

If you're on anything that can be called a "road" it's unlikely you'd need 4wd anyhow.

 

[roamingaz]

Thanks for the info guys!
I am glad to hear some positive about the IFS , I know that most people that have problems with them are running big tires and rockcrawling, personally I just don't get into the rock racing like I did when I first got into wheeling back in the early '90s now it seems everyone has a built buggy.
I have considered making this truck a daily driver so it needs good hiway manners and I do go out most every weekend either to the lake or on a trail somewhere so I want it to be capable granted most of the places I go are dirt roads with a few rough spots. I do like going fast in the flat desert to and I am really liking the Total Chaos Gen 1 kit, Downy has a complete kit for just over $3K, anyone have a opinon on these kits?
I also have never replaced a cv joint either, it doesn't sound to diffacult. what are the basics to replace a cv? remove hub, then what ?

 

[ms018kmf]

The most work involved for the Gen 1 TC Kit is involving shock hoop installation and getting the stock UCA's removed. We cut everything for the UCA and cleaned up the stock mounts and sleeves in a lathe. Doesn't sound like much but you will save time if you get stock UCA's ahead of time to prepare these parts.

Shock hoops were difficult for me since my Bilstein 9100's are about 19.75 inches compressed (comparable Fox/King's are 15). I used the TC Hoop kit with a small DOM sleeve on the front of the hoop, I also had to clear more sheet metal and fabricate an upper crossmember. The TC Hoop was intended to triangulate to the engine mounts not using an upper crossmember, engine mount braces interfeared with my higher shock placement. If you're proficcent at welding this will be easy, the bulk of the work is cutting/notching & burning. It took 2 of us about 72 hours each to turn around the install in one weekend.

I got the first gen kit to retain ball joints for better streetability. However since then I've waffled to prefer the uniballs. I haven't broken a BJ yet but the replacement cost is comparable if you source the spherical bearing's right. Lots of fab companies sell FK replacements at a steep markup. Also the torsion bars are a PITA for maintenance, all of my t-bar hardware is new but it's still a pain to service. Not really any tunability in my eyes, I'm either at the ride height I want or I'm not. It's a lot easier to remove two bolts & hose clamps if you want to cycle the arms.

My latest observation of the first gen kit is interesting. I've compared lots of pictures of first gen lower controll arms versus second gen LCA's. There are distinct diffrences in the construction of the arm's front tube and the shock tab locations. Early production first gen's locate the shock tabs behind the front tube completely on the LCA's upper plate. Also the front tube's bend is around 17 degrees.

Second gen LCA's have the tabs located as far forward as possible with about a 30 degree bend in the LCA front tube (plus the second tab set).

Now here's the interesting part . My LCA's match the geometry of the second gen LCA minus the rear tabs. I speculate that through the course of manufacturing TC found that one LCA could be manufactured for either kit minus the rear tabs. Their web site says the first gen kit can support coilovers if you remove 4wd due to the axle shaft interferance. A friend measured the outter diameter of his coilovers, about 4.5 inches with distortion from being compressed. Based off of this there is about a quarter inch of clearance at the axle shaft. Second gen kits appear to have this tight clearance as well. A second gen truck parked next to me once but I didn't get to take a look up close. Turning misaligned the axle shaft slightly but not enough to interfear. The torsion UCA clears a 4.5 inch coilover easily. TC can offer individual kit replacement parts so eventually I can get second gen UCA's w/ uniballs.

Also notice the rust . Bilstein 9100 shock bodies have a nickel plated finish that requires maintenance, basically cleaning and oiling the metal. The instructions were very specific about this. Since this pic I have cleaned the shock bodies with Scotchbrite pads. I'm oiling them with Remmington gun oil, I like the spray cans and throw on a coat every wash. The TC steering sleeves require the same treatment but everything else is painted plus a clear coat.

I'm ordering Bilstein coilovers in the next three weeks (unless I burn my money moving out of the slums ). My 9100's will move to the back of the arm. Also my shock hoops and upper crossmember will be bolstered to support the weight of the vehicle.

I sell shoes to fat chicks in Ethiopia but I take the hydrofoil to Arizona on the weekends . This setup is awesome for Arizona roads, especially the northland where trails are peppered with volcanic rocks. My wheeling mileage is slightly higher since I'm cruising above city speeds when possible. I'm very pleased with this setup and the ability to upgrade individual components. My truck is a daily driver, handling characteristics have improved in all conditions on and offroad. If you're prepared for the work involved this setup will please you for DD needs and rough roads in the southwest.

Sorry, I think I've given TMI. Enjoy .

 

[ms018kmf]

Oh yeah, CV's can be replaced fairly easily. First I pull the hub to remove the bolt going into the CV shaft. Then I remove the brake caliper, then the upper & lower BJ's and the tie rod end. Last you remove the inner axle shaft nuts & bolts at the diff. All of my hardware has been serviced recently so I can pull & install both CV's in an hour. If things haven't been loosened in yerars more time will be spent cracking things loose.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

If you have a 4 cylinder and 5 speed, look into Marlins 4.7 gears for the T-case. Sounds like your truck won't have any trouble with the rocks. The IFS is strong, you don't need to worry!

 

[fortysixandtwo]

If you have a 4 cylinder and 5 speed, look into Marlins 4.7 gears for the T-case. Sounds like your truck won't have any trouble with the rocks. The IFS is strong, you don't need to worry!

Yeah the 4.7s are a VERY nice addition though may be too low for someone who gets a lot of use out of the stock low range

 

[pilot]

The amount of money that you will spend on the Long travel kit for the IFS is prob equiv. to the amount of money that you will spend on the solid axle conversion. I have an 88 runner and (like an idiot) tried to "save" the IFS and tried to build it to be strong, and I did, but I kept blowing shafts, and then output flanges, then started bending shocks with bown CV's trying to get it to an area I could swap a shaft. Finally, I said screw it, I spend the money for a sweet conversion, found a 85 axle and did the swap. Threw in some long's and I have not touched it since. I WISHED I DID IT FIRST!!!!!!

BUT seeing that you are not going to crawl it, I would stick with the STOCK IFS and save your money, Because EVERYONE I wheel with that started out with IFS, event. go with the SAS, for piece of mind.... IFS IS A GOOD SET UP, but if you want strength, and flex, and a killer ride, spend the money on a SAS and never look back. Just my $.02

 

[ms018kmf]

The amount of money that you will spend on the Long travel kit for the IFS is prob equiv. to the amount of money that you will spend on the solid axle conversion.

Unfortunately long travel will cost more, much more than the SAS . The SAS is the most practical upgrade for most DD's. However if you want to pull over every 5 miles for a 3 minute break while you're buddies try to catch up... . My wheeling buddies never get away from me unless I choose to let them go.

 

[Devil's Slide Doug]

I have a bit of experience with a slightly modified stock ifs setup. my recipe:
1/4' ball joint spacer (for a bit of lift and travel)
Low profile bump stop (for more droop/articulation)
sway bar disconnect (for better articulation)
slightly cranked stock torsion bars
adjustable ranch shocks w/extra bushing to make them "longer"
idler arm brace (definitely necessary)
Downey tie bar for rear drop brackets of lower a arm.
This setup has worked pretty well with these little tweaks for a lot less money than a tc setup. I have 1" body lift and trimmed fenders and firewall in order to run 33' tires with this setup.
It has survived the rubicon a few times and a bit of jumping in the dunes.
Before I would do any other upgrades to the ifs I would install a solid axle.