I fitted Blackhawk Radius Arms, now I need some questions answered. (2 Viewers)

[junior80]

Hi team, I need some help.

Today I fitted a new set of Blackhawk radius arms to the cruiser and now I have a vibration through the car starting from low speeds up to freeway speeds. Maybe some slight noise, but the vibes are fatiguing after a short while and once you know its there, they really bother you.

The suspension lift on the car is the Icon/Slinky stage 1, its a few years old now and has been great ever since fitting it. the front Hub To Fender measurement is 610mm so close to 24" which I believe equates to a 3" lift. the Rear Hub to Fender is 575mm so 22.63"

The stock radius arms had castor correction bushes fitted and while it wasn't dangerous with this lift in it, the steering wasn't good. there is front sway bar drop brackets fitted and the rear sway bar is removed. All upper / lower rear suspension arms are stock and the bushings are brand new Toyota rubber. The front and rear track bars are standard, with the original bushings.

the wheelbase lengthened from 2840mm to 2865mm hub to hub.

the CV angles on the front drive shaft look different from each other. the CV at the front diff looks almost straight now and the CV at the transfer case looks the same as it did with the stock radius arms.

Changes that I have noticed are the new Vibration, the wheelbase is longer, the steering feels better and the car tracks along the road nicer than before. the front driveshaft has extended and that CV angle at the front diff is straighter than it was before. the lift hasn't changed height, but the front springs' lower perch is now parallel to the top perch.

the old arms came out without an issue and the new arms went it just fine, I used all brand new bolts from Toyota.

So my questions;

1 - Is it possible that the change in angle on the front drive shaft CV would cause this vibration regardless if it was changed to a better or worse angle?

2 - The diff pinion and the transfer case output do not look parallel - I don't have an angle finder but its plain to see without one.

3 - How do I fix this problem, have you experienced this and what was your solution?​

Thank you mudders.

​

 

[Fosters]

Yes.
Not good.
Double cardan front driveshaft @landtank

 

[lumbee1]

Yes.
Not good.
Double cardan front driveshaft @landtank

Agreed. You need a DC driveshaft. The axle pinion is already pointing at the transfer case which is exactly what you want with a DC driveshaft. Traditional driveshafts require parallel flanges.

BTW, I found that driving with a traditional driveshaft with proper caster correction caused not only vibration but the grease to leave the u-joints quicker.

 

[calokie]

Yes I have a 3" lift and BH radius arms, I had to go with a double cardon drive shaft. I had vibrations starting at 55mph. With the DC font drive shaft shes smooth again. If you have the 7pin mod you can lock your CDL, pull your front DL and drive it around to see if the vibration is gone, yes you can drive it like this indefinitely providing your CDL is activated.

 

[FryT]

If you need a DC driveshaft I have a brand new one from Tom Woods for my 97 LC. Bought it while troubleshooting a vibration/grinding noise and it ended up being something else, so I've put the stock one back on.

Driveshaft has 100-200 miles on it if I had to guess.

 

[landtank]

Looking at the picture it seems like the axle is positioned forward of the stock location.

If that’s the case I’d recommend that you measure the distance from flange to flange and have a custom length shaft made.

You’ll want as much spline engagement as possible.

Stock length is 31-1/4” collapsed

 

[JoeCova]

My pinion and front driveshaft are in-line similar to yours after installing DVS 3L Arms. They added 6.3 degrees of caster and extended the wheel base by about an inch, similar to yours. I'm also on a 3" lift and despite the similarities have zero vibrations.

Contrary to popular belief your output shaft and pinion don't need to be parallel however they do need to be within about 1/2 a degree angle from one another.

Have you verified the phasing?

Would be curious to know how much caster thr BH arms add.

 

[Broski]

Call TomWoods.com
You definitely need a double car driveshaft they can make you a custom length, double card and driveshaft and they have great customer service.

 

[FryT]

Call TomWoods.com
You definitely need a double car driveshaft they can make you a custom length, double card and driveshaft and they have great customer service.

Message me. I had a Tom Woods custom built for mine. If the dimensions line up you'll save quite a bit taking mine.

It's a spare for me at the moment. It's a nice shaft, so It'd be nice to be put to use.

 

[secretasiansam]

I also have similar set up but with delta arms. Landtank double cardan quieted it down a little. My rear drive shaft was the real culprit. Take it apart and make sure the splines are greased well.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

I'm on j springs and used drop down brackets put in DC shaft still makes noise put a bunch of weight in the back no noise.

 

[junior80]

My pinion and front driveshaft are in-line similar to yours after installing DVS 3L Arms. They added 6.3 degrees of caster and extended the wheel base by about an inch, similar to yours. I'm also on a 3" lift and despite the similarities have zero vibrations.

Contrary to popular belief your output shaft and pinion don't need to be parallel however they do need to be within about 1/2 a degree angle from one another.

Have you verified the phasing?

Would be curious to know how much caster thr BH arms add.

I haven't had a proper look to see if the Uni joints (I was calling them CVs in the OP) are in Phase, I'm assuming it's the stock Toyota shaft but only because I don't know of any reason it would have been changed by the previous owner.

Message me. I had a Tom Woods custom built for mine. If the dimensions line up you'll save quite a bit taking mine.

It's a spare for me at the moment. It's a nice shaft, so It'd be nice to be put to use.

message sent cheers.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I haven't had a proper look to see if the Uni joints (I was calling them CVs in the OP) are in Phase, I'm assuming it's the stock Toyota shaft but only because I don't know of any reason it would have been changed by the previous owner.

message sent cheers.

Toyota ran front shafts in phase and out of phase. It charged at some point.
If you'd had been taken apart, it may be it if balance.

I believe your lift is closer to 4" in the rear and 3" in the front.
20" is about 510mm which I think is stock hub to flare height.

 

[junior80]

Update from before. I did a little more reading and asked a few others that had the same problem, looked around locally for a workshop to make me a double cardan drive shaft and they all wanted between $2k to $3k AUD for a custom job and they asked too many questions so I took your advice and went to Tom Woods, emailed Shawn about it, followed the instructions on their website on how to measure up the car and bought one from them. customer service was good, shipping was fast and it was half the price of having one made locally.

Now the results, vibrations are gone . drive shaft fits good and it was an easy install . all in all I would say this is a One job.

no photos sorry it doesn't want to upload them at the moment.

cheers.

 

[junior80]

So to recap, for those possibly looking for the same info I was. I went from a 3" lift (slinky/icon stage 1) with factory Toyota radius Arms and the yellow castor correction bushes, which did drive nice but it wandered on the road a little and felt as if it was going to trip over itself around corners.

Then to correct castor, straighten up the front springs and get the wheelbase back to standard I fitted the Blackhawk radius arms. This made the car drive a lot nicer on the road in every way but it gave me a hell of a vibration from slow speeds up to over 100km/h. removing the front driveshaft eliminated the vibes so that was my problem.

here's a sketch of my driveline angles, length and flange bolt pattern, I took these with an iPhone app and a bungie cord. Lots of quite helpful forum users above and in other threads indicated that this is good candidate for a double cardan front drive shaft, this was confirmed by Shawn from Tom-Woods drives shafts. Something I think that has to do with the pinion flange pointing right at the transfer case and in that situation having the double cardan joint gives you an even number of uni joint angles that equal each other out so the drive shaft doesn't speed up and slow down constantly shaking out your will to live. or something.

so I ordered one and a week later it's made it's way from Ogden Utah to Sydney Australia and here it is fitted to the cruiser in all it's big black glory:

drove the car around the block for a while and then up and back on the freeway, car goes well from slow speeds all the way up to faster that I am legally allowed to drive it on public roads. Vibration is completely gone, car sits on the road nicely and i'm very happy with it.

 

[calokie]

Update from before. I did a little more reading and asked a few others that had the same problem, looked around locally for a workshop to make me a double cardan drive shaft and they all wanted between $2k to $3k AUD for a custom job and they asked too many questions so I took your advice and went to Tom Woods, emailed Shawn about it, followed the instructions on their website on how to measure up the car and bought one from them. customer service was good, shipping was fast and it was half the price of having one made locally.

Now the results, vibrations are gone . drive shaft fits good and it was an easy install . all in all I would say this is a One job.

no photos sorry it doesn't want to upload them at the moment.

cheers.

Wow so even with shipping to Australia Tom Woods was significantly cheaper... that's awesome

 

[mudgudgeon]

Wow so even with shipping to Australia Tom Woods was significantly cheaper... that's awesome

The Aussie prices listed are the "we don't know what you want, so we don't want to do it" prices.
Instead of saying we don't know how to help you, they throw out a number and see what sticks.
PAFOOTA pricing.
Pulled A Figure Out Of Their Ass

 

[junior80]

The Aussie prices listed are the "we don't know what you want, so we don't want to do it" prices.
Instead of saying we don't know how to help you, they throw out a number and see what sticks.
PAFOOTA pricing.
Pulled A Figure Out Of Their Ass

Mate isn’t that the truth. I had a guy tell me that the double cardan joint was $1500 alone. And another guy told me that a 60x60mm bolt pattern was not available so he needed to custom make it, meaning he’d need to weld up the holes on a larger pattern cardan joint and drill new ones.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

The Aussie prices listed are the "we don't know what you want, so we don't want to do it" prices.
Instead of saying we don't know how to help you, they throw out a number and see what sticks.
PAFOOTA pricing.
Pulled A Figure Out Of Their Ass

Ehhhh, if someone will pay our stupid figure, we'll figure out how to do it to a vaguely acceptable standard

 

[ikarus]

That's funny, I'm always shipping stuff from Australia to Utah for my diesel 80. Just bought some stuff from OCAM 4x4. Glad you got it figured out, looks good