How much $ to rebuild a 3spd

[Mtrunner]

Sounds like his guys turned a wrench for 10 min and then charged the whole hourly rate...

As far as shops, you may have to call a shop or four for some help. The closest Cruiser shop I know is Atlanta Custom Creations ACC Toyota Truck & Land Cruiser

But you can also look up some of the sponsoring MUD vendors/shops for some advice/quotes/suggestions.

 

[BDSeff1fitty]

i can scan in my reciept for my 4 speed being re-built if that helps at any.

 

[gb043075]

i can scan in my reciept for my 4 speed being re-built if that helps at any.

PM sent - thank you!

 

[Pin_Head]

Maybe you should talk to an attorney before you get too deep into this to find out what your state laws are and what his and your liabilities are. The shop I used to work at lost a number of law suits, but the ones it always won were the ones where people didn't want to pay them for the work they did.

 

[Buckwheat]

Fight dirty

If he doesn't have your truck, he may not be able to lien it - that usually depends on possession, so get it out of the body shop & lock it in your garage. Tell him you want an itemized invoice, then find an old Motor or Mitchell labor guide which will give you the book time for the labor operations in question & offer him that plus parts & fluids in writing. To be enforceable, a contract must be valid, meaning there has to be authorization for a certain dollar figure for a certain job. If he has no authorization documented, & you dispute his invoice, it's your word against his, & he may not be able to prevail in small claims, especially if you can demonstrate that his figures are excessive (via the labor guide times) & the fact you have made a reasonable offer. Include the engine teardown time. Based on my own experience, 15 to 20 hours labor for the entire job is probably more than reasonable. His figures would be reasonable if he had rebuilt your engine but not for R/R & teardown only plus trans O/H. It is worth the $ to get an hour of counsel from a contracts lawyer on the matter since local conditions vary.

 

[SD_rdcruzer]

Tell him you will give him $2500 and your cabin at the lake for another week

Go get a business license under Acme cabin rentals.
Then, send him a bill for the week at the cabin, I think about $5000 should be about fair.


Oh, you two didn't discuss a price for the rental?


Well, I guess that's his bad for not asking.

Maybe then he would be open to negotiations.

Good luck with this.

 

[Trollhole]

Call him up and tell him your going to pay X which from all your research is what you feel is a fair price.

One thing I can say is we need way more pictures than what you have provided in order to make any kind of a real decision on the quality of work and even then we may not be able to see all that was done.

Tranny's are hard to estimate when the words restoration comes into play. Doesn't sound like he just replaced a few bearings and slapped it all back together. Did he measure all the clearances, use new bolts, clean and inspect every part and put it all back together to factory specs. Way more than 2 hrs.

What I'd like to see is the bill and way more pictures.

If I were to take my cruiser to a restoration shop I'd have the understanding that I was about to open my wallet and expected to get back something restored. If I just wanted it fixed and slapped back on I would have expected to pay about 1/3 of that cost for everything.

Edit (Nevermind). I saw the images in your blog. While I agree it is high it does look nice on the outside. I would have expected though for that price that all the hardware would be plated or new.

 

[gb043075]

Call him up and tell him your going to pay X which from all your research is what you feel is a fair price.

One thing I can............ If I just wanted it fixed and slapped back on I would have expected to pay about 1/3 of that cost for everything.

Picture of the motor and transmission on a pallet in the back the day I bought it.

Picture of the new motor as delivered from SOR

Picture of motor installed and rebuilt transmission previously posted. Let me know of any specifics you'd like to see and I'll post photos if i have them.

I am reluctant to post the actual bill, but I can type it just about as quickly as i could scan it. There is no breakdown in labor, this is what it says:

teardown, clean up and inspection of motor - $508.38
teardown transmission and transfercase, soaked in cleaner and pressure washed - $847.30
rebuilt transmission and transfercase - $847.30
Cleaned parts and painted, built motor, modified parts that were unavailable, mounted motor and transmission in truck and ran motor for an hour - $1694.60

Labor Total - $3897.58

Gas - $10
Cleaner / Degreaser - $18.99
sublet machine work - $155
clutch parts ordered from SOR - $206.81 (I have yet to determine what this is as i provided the clutch and any and all parts they asked for)
plug wire holders - $16.08
oil filter conversion kit - $63.16
Rotella Oil - $29.98
Wiring Loom - $7
Gear lube - $35.96
Coolant - $10.75
Fuel Line and Fittings - $15.74
Pos and Neg battery cables - $31.96
Plug Wires - $22.79

Parts total - $624.22

Shop Supplies - $24.77

Tow Bill - $75

Subtotal - $4707.52
Tax - $301.11
Total - $5008.63

 

[crotalusatrox]

i like what mr toad said...

good luck with your upcoming battle.... be prepared mentally to go to war. this might last awhile.

 

[BELMONT148]

I won't even venture to try to determine whether those charges are correct or not. But I can tell you that you don't pay tax on labor. That will knock about $260 off the bill right there.

The double charge on the tranny/transfer seems suspect as well as the charge to inspect the motor. If the motor was brand new did he take it upon himself to inspect it or did you instruct him to look it over. $500 to take a valve cover and side cover off and say looks good seems a little much to me. Now if he dropped the oil pan too and measured the bearings, pulled the head and inspected all the cylinders, then did a wet test, then $500 sounds right to me.

Jeremy

 

[gb043075]

I won't even venture to try to determine whether those charges are correct or not. But I can tell you that you don't pay tax on labor. That will knock about $260 off the bill right there.

The double charge on the tranny/transfer seems suspect as well as the charge to inspect the motor. If the motor was brand new did he take it upon himself to inspect it or did you instruct him to look it over. $500 to take a valve cover and side cover off and say looks good seems a little much to me. Now if he dropped the oil pan too and measured the bearings, pulled the head and inspected all the cylinders, then did a wet test, then $500 sounds right to me.

Jeremy

Jeremy - That $500 charge was to inspect the original blown motor (to see that a couple of pistons were seized and cooked pretty bad) and call me to tell me it would be cheaper for me to "buy a reman motor and drop it in". Which leads to the question am i really supposed to believe $4000 motor and shipping + $3000 in motor labor (no parts included) is cheaper than rebuilding a motor? I've rebuilt an old 289 before that was pretty bad (a lot of machine work required) and it was no where close to that much money.

 

[dammitjim]

He didn't double charge for the trans - it was $850 to unbolt it and give it a bath and another $850 to rebuild it.

That must have been one hell of a bath.

 

[cmiller114]

Your "friend" is hosing you on labor charges. From an auditing point of view it's easy to spot.
He decided he wanted about $3400 from you....so...1700 for one line item, 850 each for two others and then throw in another 500 because you're a friend. But wait, that looks fake so let's enter some odd dollars and cents so it looks better......it's known as fraud.
What shop charges a labor rate that multiplies to these numbers???

 

[dammitjim]

What shop charges a labor rate that multiplies to these numbers???

teardown transmission and transfercase, soaked in cleaner and pressure washed - $847.30
rebuilt transmission and transfercase - $847.30
Cleaned parts and painted, built motor, modified parts that were unavailable, mounted motor and transmission in truck and ran motor for an hour - $1694.60

It's interesting that a transmission teardown and rebuild costs exactly the same as cleaning and installing a new motor.

$847.30 + $847.30 = $1694.60

 

[gb043075]

But I can tell you that you don't pay tax on labor. That will knock about $260 off the bill right there.

Jeremy

Excellent point! Should be no tax on labor or towing per Florida law. Thank you.

 

[BELMONT148]

I would think that this thread, plus the labor figures from a shop manual, plus a quote from one of the "restoration" shops, and a check for $3000 would get him off your back.

Jeremy

 

[Trollhole]

Picture of the motor and transmission on a pallet in the back the day I bought it.
View attachment 341385
Picture of the new motor as delivered from SOR
View attachment 341386
Picture of motor installed and rebuilt transmission previously posted. Let me know of any specifics you'd like to see and I'll post photos if i have them.

I am reluctant to post the actual bill, but I can type it just about as quickly as i could scan it. There is no breakdown in labor, this is what it says:

teardown, clean up and inspection of motor - $508.38 What did this entail? Was this the SOR motor or the motor in the back of the 40?
teardown transmission and transfercase, soaked in cleaner and pressure washed - $847.30 If he took every piece apart and measured clearances then cleaned it and laid it all out. Well if I had never done one it might have taken me 12 hrs to do that and get it really clean.
rebuilt transmission and transfercase - $847.30 I've seen quite a few people charge 300-400 in labor just for the t-case not including parts. I could imagine 847.30 might be a little high for both but not by much. I had a 3spd rebuilt from the ground up 15 years ago for $250 plus parts. But it was a rebuild and not a resto. I retained all the grease, rust and mud on the 3spd.
Cleaned parts and painted, built motor, modified parts that were unavailable, mounted motor and transmission in truck and ran motor for an hour - $1694.60
What did he modify? Cleaned and painted? Well if cleaning required use of a blast cabinet and painting was something other than a rattle can then I could see something more than just 2-3 hrs of labor. If he had never reassembled a cruiser before and had to do a bunch of reading to figure everything out and didn't know the FSM by memory. I could see it taking a while.

Labor Total - $3897.58

Gas - $10
Cleaner / Degreaser - $18.99
sublet machine work - $155
clutch parts ordered from SOR - $206.81 (I have yet to determine what this is as i provided the clutch and any and all parts they asked for)
plug wire holders - $16.08
oil filter conversion kit - $63.16
Rotella Oil - $29.98
Wiring Loom - $7
Gear lube - $35.96
Coolant - $10.75
Fuel Line and Fittings - $15.74
Pos and Neg battery cables - $31.96
Plug Wires - $22.79

Parts total - $624.22

Shop Supplies - $24.77

Tow Bill - $75

Subtotal - $4707.52
Tax - $301.11
Total - $5008.63

My responses are in red. All in all I think he charged too much. That being said I don't think he charged over to where I'd be losing sleep. You did give him the vehicle with basically a blank check. Telling someone to take their time on it when they have time expecting a discount is worthless. If he was a true friend he would have told you half way through it was going to be expensive.

Looks like he did quality work. I'd say let it go and get the cruiser finished and enjoy it before it starts rusting again. You do live in Florida right?

 

[Pighead]

Dude,
To reiterate, your mechanic thinks that you are an easy mark. You look like a guy who just shovels mass quantities of cash into his 'Cruiser without blinking. You bought a mail-order engine from notorious price-gougers when you could have got something local that is just as good or better for half the price. He wants some of that action. He is trying to take advantage of you.
He was expecting that first phone call from you? Of course he was. He charged you double what he should have. What is the shop rate? Should be posted at the shop....is a hundred bucks an hour fair? I've seen that before, but it's been a long time since I've had my rig in a real shop. and it's easy on the math...
5 hours to tear your old engine down and provide a professional opinion on it's non-rebuildability? Well, if he has to pull it out of the rear of your rig and put it on a stand an drop the pan and pull the head, hopefully pull the crank out...I could see 5 hours, but he could have done it in half the time... But a rebuild of a tranny & TC should be 400 bucks each.
He says "built motor"...I thought the motor was built? he attached the ancillaries, and that can take time. "cleaned parts & painted"...is he charging you the hours to watch the paint dry? Granted, there are many parts that would need cleaning & painting for this job. but 17 hours to assemble & stab an engine? No way. Digger & I did pretty much the same thing in his 40 just this last Sunday. Pulled his seized 2F, swapped stuff over to his new longblock and stabbed it in 7 hours. with long beer breaks. A pro with great tools should be able to do that easily. or faster, maybe in half that time?.
He's giving you the 100% markup and is probably looking to take half that. Probably does this routinely on anyone who looks easy.
Does he have any idea of what is going on in this (these) threads? Perhaps just providing him a link, the slightest clue, to the possible s***storm, would accelerate negotiations. And stay off the release of the Pigs of war.
Pighead thinks a check for exactly half of the bill would have everybody sleeping well at night.

 

[pb4ugo]

In the words of Dave Ramsey, Everybody at some point will have to pay a "stupid tax". Having someone do work for you w/o an estimate is not a good idea. The way I see it the bill is the bill. You gave him a blank check.

In the business I'm in, sometimes things go wrong, or explanations get blurred between the cust and us. We sometimes we have to eat some dollars now even though we think or know were right, with hopes for future business. I think you could get a break on the bill, but it will be up to him. You might explain to him in a subtle way that he is burning bridges. It is in his best interest not to lose a long time loyal cust over some dollars? I'm sure you have recommended his services to friends and family, heck you even let him stay @ your cabin. Ethics & fairness come to mind. Word of mouth is the best
form of advertising. But remember your the 1 who made the mistake in the 1st place. Be armed w/the info you get from others on the work that was done, but keep in mind he did not just slap it together. It looks like he did do a very good job. I know some shops would be reluctant to take the job if they didn't take it apart. Most shops ussually don't know where everything goes unless they specialize in Land Cruisers. Good Luck!

 

[Living in the Past]

I just have one question for you. You did get a hard quote from the body shop before any work is done there?

Toyota went back to the three speed from the four speeds in third world market since the three speed is simple to rebuild in the middle of nowhere. If this guy didn't know how long it was going to take to do something on ones of these simple old cruiser to give me a quote I would have walked away.


I've been trying to get a garage built up at my cabin for years. Checked with one builder who said he works at cost plus. I asked about how much a square foot it would run. He had no idea. Cost plus meant he could have used subs for everything and got ripped off on the prices. He won't care because the higher the bills the more he would of made. Finally getting one done from another contractor with a signed contract that says what included and whats not for a set price.