How many cranks before start? (1 Viewer)

[Dirt Ferguson]

How many cranks does your rig go through before it starts? I would say on average mine is around 4 or 5.

When I switched out my starter a month ago, it turned over after maybe 2 cranks..? But since then it's back to 4 or 5. When I'm driving around town, it will start up more quickly when I'm in and out of the truck, say, hitting the post office, then grocery store, etc. Running errands.

I have a new starter, new battery cables, but unsure on when the plugs and wires were replaced.

256K miles on the 97LX.

I've seen a few videos where people turn the key and the 80 fires right up, just wondering if this prolonged crank is indicative of something needing attention.

 

[manofthewoods]

How many cranks does your rig go through before it starts? I would say on average mine is around 4 or 5.

When I switched out my starter a month ago, it turned over after maybe 2 cranks..? But since then it's back to 4 or 5. When I'm driving around town, it will start up more quickly when I'm in and out of the truck, say, hitting the post office, then grocery store, etc. Running errands.

I have a new starter, new battery cables, but unsure on when the plugs and wires were replaced.

256K miles on the 97LX.

I've seen a few videos where people turn the key and the 80 fires right up, just wondering if this prolonged crank is indicative of something needing attention.

Not 100% sure (could be placebo effect), but my LX450 w/380k miles seems to start quickly now that I have a new (VC120) charcoal canister. Since I don't have a vacuum in my tank when I open my gas cap; it makes sense to me that fuel is "ready" as opposed to being sucked back into the tank??? Somebody can shoot holes in my theory.

 

[FMC80]

A vehicle at operating temperature will start quicker. Averaging 4 cranks on a cold start in a cold environment may be normal. I know for me it’s always 2 cranks when cold but I live in a tropical environment. Maybe I’m full of shít

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

I would think it’s not a big deal, but does it seem to laboring?

FWIW I too changed out my charcoal canister and I did not notice any difference in starting….boiling gas blowing fumes out of the tank-not any more!

 

[Dave 2000]

Check for leaks in the fuel lines or a bad filter, fuel non return valve and so forth. Try switching on the ignition but not cranking and then repeat and then crank see if it fires up quicker, any air getting into the system could mean air is getting in allowing fuel to drain back to the tank, cycling the ignition helps purge the air. Of course check the plugs but if this is a sudden recent thing are you going through a cold winter, in which case the temperature sensor could be going AWOL. I cannot remember if there is a crank angle sensor (no model in sig), they do strange things when they are failing. I have a Nissan 350Z in the garage at the present that takes a long time to start when. I put the sensor in fridge overnight and connected to the OBD data port and the engine started immediately, and I watched the data stream as the engine warmed then the sensor started to falter and with the engine warm ti was taking a long crank to start, intermittent different codes that would come and go being thrown, new sensor on order (UK car part coming from the factory).

Regards

Dave

 

[effjay80]

My 94 is always 4-5 too when cold. Owned since new and never recall it being any different.

 

[BILT4ME]

Check for leaks in the fuel lines or a bad filter, fuel non return valve and so forth. Try switching on the ignition but not cranking and then repeat and then crank see if it fires up quicker, any air getting into the system could mean air is getting in allowing fuel to drain back to the tank, cycling the ignition helps purge the air. Of course check the plugs but if this is a sudden recent thing are you going through a cold winter, in which case the temperature sensor could be going AWOL. I cannot remember if there is a crank angle sensor (no model in sig), they do strange things when they are failing. I have a Nissan 350Z in the garage at the present that takes a long time to start when. I put the sensor in fridge overnight and connected to the OBD data port and the engine started immediately, and I watched the data stream as the engine warmed then the sensor started to falter and with the engine warm ti was taking a long crank to start, intermittent different codes that would come and go being thrown, new sensor on order (UK car part coming from the factory).

Regards

Dave

Dave:

Remember, the fuel pump on the 1FZ-FE does not run until it is actually cranking. Just turning the key to "run", then off, then start will have no effect on fuel pressure.


FWIW, my 96 DD w/ 326K still takes 4-5 cranks before it fires regardless of hot or cold.

I am also still on my original fuel pump and fuel filter. The sock in the tank has been confirmed clean when I changed my cracked tank about 70K ago. The inside of my old tank was clean as a whistle. Changed my CC with no change to cranking starts. Changed the gas cap at that time as well.

Could be a slightly weak fuel pump or injectors that weep and bleed down the pressure in the lines, but if you still drive it, it's not catastrophic and it will still do its job a long while.

But, if you're OCD or do a lot of remote stuff, consider changing the fuel pump and filter as PM.

 

[Dirt Ferguson]

Thanks guys, I have a VC120 CC, and my fuel filter was replaced in the last few years. Fuel pump and sock are original. Fuel pressure regulator is also new.

I planned to send off my injectors to be serviced by RC when I get my head gasket done in the new few months.

Nice to hear 4-5 cranks isn't far outside of normal for many of you.

 

[flintknapper]

Dave:

Remember, the fuel pump on the 1FZ-FE does not run until it is actually cranking. Just turning the key to "run", then off, then start will have no effect on fuel pressure.

Correct. Neither the 80 series or 100 series 'prime' the fuel system with key in the 'on' position. The fuel pump only energizes when cranking the engine.

FWIW, my 96 DD w/ 326K still takes 4-5 cranks before it fires regardless of hot or cold.

Same for mine.

Its actually a good thing to take a few seconds before the engine fires. This allows oil pressure to build minimally so that you don't dry start.

 

[bicycleagent003]

Mine always starts on the second crank, FWIW.

 

[SaturnAscends]

Its actually a good thing to take a few seconds before the engine fires. This allows oil pressure to build minimally so that you don't dry start.

That's funny, I always get a warm and fuzzy feeling when my truck starts on the first and second crank, but that makes a lot of sense to let it build some oil pressure.

 

[Broski]

How does one count cranks.
Mine turn the key once and it start all most instantly hot or cold.
270k

 

[80t0ylc]

How does one count cranks.
Mine turn the key once and it start all most instantly hot or cold.
270k

I had same question, but you asked it 1st.

And as far as "dry start" is concerned mentioned by @flintknapper, if you're running one of the higher quality synthetic motor oils such as Amsoil or Castrol, I wouldn't worry about it. Amsoil has a test for how long a coat of oil stays on a surface (without being replenished) before you get down to a metal on metal condition. It's not mentioned much, but one of the benefits of synthetic oil is the superior lubicating quality.

 

[flintknapper]

I had same question, but you asked it 1st.

And as far as "dry start" is concerned mentioned by @flintknapper, if you're running one of the higher quality synthetic motor oils such as Amsoil or Castrol, I wouldn't worry about it. Amsoil has a test for how long a coat of oil stays on a surface (without being replenished) before you get down to a metal on metal condition. It's not mentioned much, but one of the benefits of synthetic oil is the superior lubicating quality.

You'd never 'literally' have a dry start regardless the oil being used unless you let your engine sit many months. And of course the 'hard parts' (cam lobes on shims, gears meshing, valve tips, etc) are not the things we are concerned about. Even a light coating of oil (possibly half a mil) is sufficient to lubricate them temporarily as the engine cranks and starts.

Its the Crank Bearings and Rod Bearings that need oil as quickly as possible. The bearings are very soft metal and the Crank and Rods are designed to run on a 'layer' of oil, not the bearing itself. Often, these clearances are .002-.003"...meaning there is supposed to be about that thickness of oil supporting those parts. A half mil coating of oil (.0005") could wipe away pretty quickly (at engine speed) before the bearings are fully supplied. Not really an issue with daily drivers or areas that don't see extreme cold.

And even IF the condition exists....it would take many years and start sequences to develop a knock due to wear. Even if only minimally beneficial....its not a bad thing for your engine not to start for second or two. Its priming the oiling system all the while.

I haven't ever looked at the oiling circuit/sequence of the 1FZ-FE....but presumably it supplies oil to the crank first?

 

[BILT4ME]

How does one count cranks.
Mine turn the key once and it start all most instantly hot or cold.
270k

How many Ugga-Duggas sound does it make when cranking.

RRrr
RRrr
RRrr
RRrr
Vroom

That's four.

 

[flintknapper]

How many Ugga-Duggas sound does it make when cranking.

RRrr
RRrr
RRrr
RRrr
Vroom

That's four.

Haha.....exactly what mine does (and sounds like).

 

[BILT4ME]

Haha.....exactly what mine does (and sounds like).

People make fun of me and how I make sounds about how something sounds when it's making a noise. However, I am one of the best troubleshooters I know and those of us in that league know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'm not just talking about automotive. I'm also talking about industrial. I help with telephone troubleshooting all the time to help get a plant running or fix a baghouse that's not running right. I will make these noises while having a conversation with the person on site and it makes a HUGE difference what direction it points someone.

Some years ago, there was a commercial about shop guys doing this and I thought it was hilarious because it was true.

 

[Kernal]

IIRC it was discussed (?10+ years ago) why it takes ~ 1 to 1-1/2 seconds for the engine to actually fire (start). Something about the time it takes the ECU to get the correct signals/data and spin up the fuel pump, etc, etc??? At that time the guru's said no matter what anyone did the stock ignition system would never start as quickly as a more modern vehicle.

I've mentioned it before, but for those that missed it, one of my FZJ80's has the standard 2.0kW starter, the other has a 2.2kW starter. The 2.2kW starter spins/cranks the engine faster than the 2.0kW, but both engines fire (start)
in roughly the same amount of time from key turn to Vroom.

FWIW.

edit: fixed small typo

 

[effjay80]

And after almost 30 years and thousands of starts, I still very rarely release the key after just a RRrr, RRrr, RRrr to silence and no Vroom, and have to start over with RRrr, RRrr, RRrr, RRrr then the Vroom!

 

[SmokingRocks]

Most of my 80's have been two crankers

vrruh vrruh vrooooooooooom

sometimes they are three crankers

vrruh vrruh vruh vrooooooom