jestlurnin
SILVER Star
How difficult is a 2F rebuild? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jestlurnin
- Start date
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I’ve never rebuilt an F or 2F. I’d say my skill level is above that of many backyard mechanics. When I was 19 my F died, I was in school and didn’t have time, and I took it to a shop, and they wanted $2800 to rebuild it.
I also had a 2F and they said it would be much cheaper to rebuild it instead. It wasn’t the sight unseen price of $1200-1600, even though there were no surprises the quote was $2800 + taxes to rebuild it. I felt misled. The icing on the cake was they charged me $450 for the quotes and kept both engines. I’m still annoyed any time I think about it.
Getting back to the point… I have rebuilt an inline 6 in a ‘72 GT6. It was a multi step process, but nothing was difficult. A good machine shop is vital. I double checked the bearing clearances with plastigage, carefully lubed, and torqued everything. At every step along the way, I spun everything by hand and made sure nothing was binding.
The crank had been balanced, and it had been recently rebuilt. The shop that did the work swapped the connecting rod caps on 3 & 4. As a result, one of the rod bearings spun, necessitating a subsequent rebuild. So learn from their mistake, and put everything back in the right spot as a matching set.
The result was an engine that was smooth as silk at 4K rpm. It felt like it was idling when it purred along at 3K rpm. It was a very rewarding experience. Some days I almost miss that car… it was an easy choice to keep the 40 and sell it.
The second reason I’ve seen another freshly rebuilt engine die was not torquing the rod bearing bolts/nuts. The student missed it, it wasn’t double checked, and was reassembled. When it was started up, there were bad noises, and the connecting rod punched a big hole in the block before it was shut down. Another avoidable death.
Torque everything with a quality torque wrench when it’s assembled…. And double check before moving on, Be systematic and methodical, check and double check everything, and the results will be rewarding.
All that said, I’m on my second running engine replacement in my 40. I can’t justify $5-10k on a rebuild. The first was a $300 and it ran for 21+ years… the next was also $300, in way better shape, a stronger design, and it was a one owner engine with only 72k miles on it. 40 years from now, I’ll risk it not lasting that long… we probably won’t be running internal combustion engines by then. I’ll save the big bucks and time commitment for the body work.
I also had a 2F and they said it would be much cheaper to rebuild it instead. It wasn’t the sight unseen price of $1200-1600, even though there were no surprises the quote was $2800 + taxes to rebuild it. I felt misled. The icing on the cake was they charged me $450 for the quotes and kept both engines. I’m still annoyed any time I think about it.
Getting back to the point… I have rebuilt an inline 6 in a ‘72 GT6. It was a multi step process, but nothing was difficult. A good machine shop is vital. I double checked the bearing clearances with plastigage, carefully lubed, and torqued everything. At every step along the way, I spun everything by hand and made sure nothing was binding.
The crank had been balanced, and it had been recently rebuilt. The shop that did the work swapped the connecting rod caps on 3 & 4. As a result, one of the rod bearings spun, necessitating a subsequent rebuild. So learn from their mistake, and put everything back in the right spot as a matching set.
The result was an engine that was smooth as silk at 4K rpm. It felt like it was idling when it purred along at 3K rpm. It was a very rewarding experience. Some days I almost miss that car… it was an easy choice to keep the 40 and sell it.
The second reason I’ve seen another freshly rebuilt engine die was not torquing the rod bearing bolts/nuts. The student missed it, it wasn’t double checked, and was reassembled. When it was started up, there were bad noises, and the connecting rod punched a big hole in the block before it was shut down. Another avoidable death.
Torque everything with a quality torque wrench when it’s assembled…. And double check before moving on, Be systematic and methodical, check and double check everything, and the results will be rewarding.
All that said, I’m on my second running engine replacement in my 40. I can’t justify $5-10k on a rebuild. The first was a $300 and it ran for 21+ years… the next was also $300, in way better shape, a stronger design, and it was a one owner engine with only 72k miles on it. 40 years from now, I’ll risk it not lasting that long… we probably won’t be running internal combustion engines by then. I’ll save the big bucks and time commitment for the body work.
Rebuilding an engine of any type for the first time can spank you if you are not paying attention to detail. You are going to need a good machine shop, so I would suggest that you have them assemble your short block to save you potential grief on things that require the most detail. When I was a free lance VW mechanic, I rebuilt dozens of engines, but I figured out that I saved time and made more money by just buying a long block and dropping it in.
1911
chupacabra
Yes. Only minor differences between earlier and later 2F's, like the inclusion of cast-in power steering pump mounts on late, and the piston shape. '75-'80 had domed pistons, and '81-'87 has flat-top pistons. No differences that would affect the engine rebuild specs.
jestlurnin
SILVER Star
If your block is indeed '76-ish, heads up on oversize piston availability for the dome-tops - they're pretty close to unobtanium now. I think I snagged one of the last sets of .020s back in January. I wanted 030s, but those were long gone already...020s cleaned up 5 out of 6 bores, and the 6th only left a tiny blem up at the top after machining.
I'd pull the head sooner rather than later and check the bores with a bore gauge to see what you've dealing with (and if you even have dometops or not, and if they're already replacements/oversize). I had a separate thread a while back on the part numbers for various manufacturers that may be handy as well.
Depending on what you find, might drive your plans and/or parts hunt. I know some swap out the heads to use flattops as one option...
I'd pull the head sooner rather than later and check the bores with a bore gauge to see what you've dealing with (and if you even have dometops or not, and if they're already replacements/oversize). I had a separate thread a while back on the part numbers for various manufacturers that may be handy as well.
Depending on what you find, might drive your plans and/or parts hunt. I know some swap out the heads to use flattops as one option...
jestlurnin
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #27
@Pin_Head are you trying to discourage this endeavor? Your background is 1000 X mine. My attention to detail is pretty high. I’m in it for the experience. Not concerned about time spent as I’m in no hurry. Moderately concerned about money but have a good idea as to what it’s going to cost.
There are a ton of machine shops around me. What should I be looking for when I’m shopping around?
There are a ton of machine shops around me. What should I be looking for when I’m shopping around?
I found a good machine shop here that worked more on industrial engines (forklifts, over the road trucks, tractors)...that's way more relevant experience than a "hotrod" or modern engine shop when it comes to a 2F. The machinist knew what a 2F was just by mentioning it, although he hadn't seen one specifically in years. Toyota did actually use these in forklifts as well, which can be a more common avenue for some things as well (my one piece oil pan gasket was a forklift P/N). If you walk in and see rows of big bore inline sizes being worked on, you probably found a good candidate.
If you have attention to detail, can read, have time and space to work methodically, and time to step away and regroup if anything seems amiss...you'll be ok IMHO. Tracking down parts like pistons, bearings, rings was probably the hardest part, just based on availability. You'll need a few less common tools (micrometers, dial gauges, good torque wrenches)...but it is rewarding when it it lights off for the first time for sure.
If you have attention to detail, can read, have time and space to work methodically, and time to step away and regroup if anything seems amiss...you'll be ok IMHO. Tracking down parts like pistons, bearings, rings was probably the hardest part, just based on availability. You'll need a few less common tools (micrometers, dial gauges, good torque wrenches)...but it is rewarding when it it lights off for the first time for sure.
Find the oldest machine shop in your area, with the oldest machinists.
Also, have your machine shop locate and order the parts for the long block. They can usually find parts cheaper than you can, and the parts will fit.
jestlurnin
SILVER Star
FWIW, sometimes the replacement parts take a bit of fiddling...so the more you can help/be involved there the better, IMHO.
A couple examples - Hastings runs their ring gaps wide now...so if you want a tighter end gap, you need to order accordingly. Main bearings were similar - the shop ordered those up for me, but that set ran loose even though the crank spec'd out. After trying a couple flavors of stock sized main bearings, I managed to combine together a set that ran with the tolerances I wanted. One of those things...
A couple examples - Hastings runs their ring gaps wide now...so if you want a tighter end gap, you need to order accordingly. Main bearings were similar - the shop ordered those up for me, but that set ran loose even though the crank spec'd out. After trying a couple flavors of stock sized main bearings, I managed to combine together a set that ran with the tolerances I wanted. One of those things...
Yes, exactly.
I did this and it worked out well. Bearings were on the tight side of the acceptable ranges. It probably cost me a couple more bucks, but if anything was wrong, they’d be the ones paying to fix it… rather than me eating the costs of different parts.
That said… I could have ordered cheaper parts. Not sure what it would have cost me to buy the same parts. I also didn’t have 30 years experience to know which parts are good, great, or junk. Well worth having the machine shop order all the parts and do the work to make sure they fit.
jestlurnin
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #34
Well it’s settled in my mind. I’ll have the machine shop I take the 2F to for machining order everything and I’ll utilize the FSM, YouTube videos and mud to help me put this beauty back together.
I really appreciate everyone’s input.
cheers
I really appreciate everyone’s input.
cheers
