that's kinda funny? a friend of mine just made his own and is getting a 27% increase in mpg. hummmm weird?
HHO injection generator results (1 Viewer)
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that's kinda funny? a friend of mine just made his own and is getting a 27% increase in mpg. hummmm weird?
you wouldnt know him, Chris and I where talking about it today as he was showing me the one he's putting in his burb. I pm'ed Chris this thread, lets see if he'll post some details on his. I know Chris and his old man are getting way into this.
Not really. You could get that kind of increase just by tuning it up. If "HHO" worked, everyone would get that kind of increase and all of the auto manufacturers would be mandated to use it.
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You may not see much more of Powderhound around here, as the last time I saw him he had just sold his 60. Currently he's rolling in a VW van. He's still working with these systems and hopefully he will post up again. He was trying to get a local town fleet set up with them. That could offer some better figures in the future.
Yea, drag me into this....
I put the cell on the burb today. Draws 9amps. Only drove it from the shop to Hallowel and home so no mileage reports. Will fill and track mileage. I can say it DOES idle smoother. (and Im sceptical still at this point so dont anyone give me crap)
The things are so cheap to build and try there's no reason not to. You guys need to quit bickering and just build one and play with it.
If they dont work then at least you can make some HUGE bangs lighting the bubbles....
Right Jason??? (specs on burb': 89 2WD, 5.7tbi, 700r4, stock everything, 2:70 rear gear, yea its a turd towing)
Chris
i just want to chime in, i have a homemade smack style booster on my 05 dakota v8 4x4. i have had it for about 2 months and have seen a steady 240mi or so on a tank around town insted of 190 to 210mi before, and have been using 87 octane rather than the 92 i needed to have it run right before.
you guys can say what you want, but the truth is in the testing. build one and than you can talk. you can get the plans for free at http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ (no affiliation). sometimes you get lucky and dont need the other hardware for the o2 map maf. that was the case with mine. also when the truck is warmed up you can hardly smell the exhaust with your nose right in it. its not that pricey either, i built it for probably about $50-70. if you guys try it, go and sign up at watercar : Daniel Dingel's Hydrogen-Powered Car there is tons of info on there.
good luck to the faithful.
joe
you guys can say what you want, but the truth is in the testing. build one and than you can talk. you can get the plans for free at http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ (no affiliation). sometimes you get lucky and dont need the other hardware for the o2 map maf. that was the case with mine. also when the truck is warmed up you can hardly smell the exhaust with your nose right in it. its not that pricey either, i built it for probably about $50-70. if you guys try it, go and sign up at watercar : Daniel Dingel's Hydrogen-Powered Car there is tons of info on there.
good luck to the faithful.
joe
I put the cell on the burb today. Draws 9amps. Only drove it from the shop to Hallowel and home so no mileage reports. Will fill and track mileage. I can say it DOES idle smoother. (and Im sceptical still at this point so dont anyone give me crap)
The things are so cheap to build and try there's no reason not to. You guys need to quit bickering and just build one and play with it.
If they dont work then at least you can make some HUGE bangs lighting the bubbles....
(specs on burb': 89 2WD, 5.7tbi, 700r4, stock everything, 2:70 rear gear, yea its a turd towing)
Chris
Heck yeah.. If bob could get 40% better mileage (that would bump me up to like 16mpg) I would be happy as a clam..
But I am seriously skeptical..
Cant' wait to see your reports Chris..
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yeah, sold the 60, but will probably do some lurking here till I can get a bj40 diesel down the road.
Just got some results from a friend in a f-250 heavy duty gasser. After having to let the ecu adapt to the hho, he's getting 18 mpg, up from his 12-13 mpg. He first started using the Ethos fuel additive and it bumped up to 14.5 mpg and now with the double brick running he's getting 18 over the same type of driving conditions.
The main difference he says is the boost in power, he can go up passes in a taller gear with the supplimental hho. Also his exhaust is almost non noticable and it idles a lot smoother.
We have been up near steamboat building a house and have been doing some "testing" with his unit. Basically blowing up small trash bags with the stuff and igniting it. It's really loud and can launch plastic bottles 15 ft in the air.
I reconfigured my system and updated it. You can check it out on the hho thread in alternative fuels section of mud in esther's thread.
I'll try to keep this thread updated as well.
j.
Just got some results from a friend in a f-250 heavy duty gasser. After having to let the ecu adapt to the hho, he's getting 18 mpg, up from his 12-13 mpg. He first started using the Ethos fuel additive and it bumped up to 14.5 mpg and now with the double brick running he's getting 18 over the same type of driving conditions.
The main difference he says is the boost in power, he can go up passes in a taller gear with the supplimental hho. Also his exhaust is almost non noticable and it idles a lot smoother.
We have been up near steamboat building a house and have been doing some "testing" with his unit. Basically blowing up small trash bags with the stuff and igniting it. It's really loud and can launch plastic bottles 15 ft in the air.
I reconfigured my system and updated it. You can check it out on the hho thread in alternative fuels section of mud in esther's thread.
I'll try to keep this thread updated as well.
j.
I've got an '84 FJ60 that gets 14-15 in town, and as high as 18 on a camping trip. I've got 4 years of fuel mileage records, and I passed Boulder County CO emissions testing last week, and I still have the test results. (I have 4 years of emissions test data) I'm pretty skeptical about some of the published numbers for these systems.
BUT, if people are interested, I'd be willing to use my vehicle as a test unit. I'm willing to work on building a kit, and running a long-term test. Although I rarely drive the truck lately. My motorcycle gets 45 mpg.
BUT, if people are interested, I'd be willing to use my vehicle as a test unit. I'm willing to work on building a kit, and running a long-term test. Although I rarely drive the truck lately. My motorcycle gets 45 mpg.
i have found some interesting ideas and info on HHO Forums - Trying to facilitate the production of HHO for the common folk. - Powered by vBulletin
i have not yet made the leap and installed one on my 60 yet. However i have had a friend do it on a old Honda of his. He followed his directions and saw improvements but wanted more, so he "juiced" his up (not sure how) and it ended up causing major over heating problems.
I will try yo get some numbers and facts from him.
i have not yet made the leap and installed one on my 60 yet. However i have had a friend do it on a old Honda of his. He followed his directions and saw improvements but wanted more, so he "juiced" his up (not sure how) and it ended up causing major over heating problems.
I will try yo get some numbers and facts from him.
ntsqd
technerd
"A fallacy out there is that it takes more energy to produce the HHO than the energy it releases. Not at all true,......."
What a deceptive load of huey!
I won't even try to explain why folks are reporting better mileage using these things, there are far too many variables involved, but the claims made are absurd.
The bond energy is the same whether or not you are combining or seperating the atoms. So an H2O molecule needs a set amount of energy input to become "HHO", and that is the same amount of energy released when they re-combine to form H2O again. There's no magic there. There is no energy gain there.
The problem is energy conversions. You never, ever get one for free. There is ALWAYS a net loss of energy in a conversion. There is no such thing as a perfect alternator or electrical generator, they all have an energy cost in making power. If you put 5 HP into an alternator you will not get the equivelent of 5 HP worth of electrical power out of it. Say that alternator is 95% efficient, which is really, really good, you'll only get 4.75 HP worth of electrical power from the alternator.
The same is true of an engine, only the conversion efficiency is far worse, maybe 30% at best. There is also a loss in the belt that drives the alternator, for lack of solid info let's say that is a 5% loss (95% efficient).
So to get that 4.75HP out of the alternator you need to put in 5HP, but to get 5HP to the alternator the engine has to put out 5.25 HP. To get 5.25 HP from the engine you have to put 8.925 HP worth of fuel into the tank.
4.75/8.925 = 53% efficiency.
So just to get the power to drive this HHO generator we've lost 47% of the energy put into the system. For the HHO generator to just break even it would have to be 147% efficient.
Somehow I just don't see that happening.
What a deceptive load of huey!
I won't even try to explain why folks are reporting better mileage using these things, there are far too many variables involved, but the claims made are absurd.
The bond energy is the same whether or not you are combining or seperating the atoms. So an H2O molecule needs a set amount of energy input to become "HHO", and that is the same amount of energy released when they re-combine to form H2O again. There's no magic there. There is no energy gain there.
The problem is energy conversions. You never, ever get one for free. There is ALWAYS a net loss of energy in a conversion. There is no such thing as a perfect alternator or electrical generator, they all have an energy cost in making power. If you put 5 HP into an alternator you will not get the equivelent of 5 HP worth of electrical power out of it. Say that alternator is 95% efficient, which is really, really good, you'll only get 4.75 HP worth of electrical power from the alternator.
The same is true of an engine, only the conversion efficiency is far worse, maybe 30% at best. There is also a loss in the belt that drives the alternator, for lack of solid info let's say that is a 5% loss (95% efficient).
So to get that 4.75HP out of the alternator you need to put in 5HP, but to get 5HP to the alternator the engine has to put out 5.25 HP. To get 5.25 HP from the engine you have to put 8.925 HP worth of fuel into the tank.
4.75/8.925 = 53% efficiency.
So just to get the power to drive this HHO generator we've lost 47% of the energy put into the system. For the HHO generator to just break even it would have to be 147% efficient.
Somehow I just don't see that happening.
i dont believe that's the argument that i have read anywhere in here. i believe the argument is that it makes you burn your fuel much more efficiently not produce energy
ntsqd
technerd
I have not seen any claims or evidence to support that, but given the laws of Physics violating nature of the whole thing I've mostly ignored it too.
This is a battle that You can't win. There are too many people who seem to believe that it is the end all be all.. And no amount of actual science will prove otherwise.
That being said, I do have one good friend that is trying it. And so far, the hydrogen produced in the reaction is wonderful for making baloon bombs
ntsqd
technerd
Yeah, I know. I hoped that if there were enough skepticism posted that maybe just maybe folks would look into it rather than just buying their line of huey.
So you probably wouldn't know anything about taping one to a helium balloon, and then taping a lit piece of cheesecloth to the 'fuel' balloon and releasing it?
Not that I know anything about it, but I've been told that a neutral burning oxy-acetylene flame sniffed out and used to fill a balloon makes a bigger bang. Helium balloon is absolutely essential, you don't want it to be close when it goes off.
So you probably wouldn't know anything about taping one to a helium balloon, and then taping a lit piece of cheesecloth to the 'fuel' balloon and releasing it?
Not that I know anything about it, but I've been told that a neutral burning oxy-acetylene flame sniffed out and used to fill a balloon makes a bigger bang. Helium balloon is absolutely essential, you don't want it to be close when it goes off.
Bringing up this again after talking to the owner of my storage unit. He installed a very simple system in his daughter's older Dodge van and says he got an average 6MPG improvement after a couple months. Said there was very little improvement initially (which led him to believe that her driving habits could've just been slightly different or mostly highway for the first couple fuel fillups afterward) but it kept getting better and better and settled at ~6. Simple PVC pipe "generator" plumbed to a water reservoir that essentially acts as a flash suppressor and then to a nipple installed on the airbox so it's plumbed into the intake before the air filter (dunno if that makes any real difference or not). Couple check valves in the lines to help act as backups to the flash suppressor and he says it pulls about 8 amps when it's on. Got a switch in the cab that controls a relay that powers the generator and she just switches it on when the engine's warm and switches it off and lets it idle for a few minutes before shutting it down. Says he spent less than $50 to do the whole thing and used hardware store parts.
The van is fuel injected too and he said after a few days the ECU adjusted to the different oxygen content in the exhaust just fine.
The van is fuel injected too and he said after a few days the ECU adjusted to the different oxygen content in the exhaust just fine.
very cool thread. Always willing to look at something that might help with fuel efficiency - whether gas is 2.40 or 4.40 - if it helps...
I'm not sold on this, but definitely interested. I remember enough from science classes - you can't get free energy (unless you are stealing gas).
rob
I'm not sold on this, but definitely interested. I remember enough from science classes - you can't get free energy (unless you are stealing gas).
rob
