Help: On my 2nd battery replacement in 6 months (4 Viewers)

[TankTheLC]

Well, for low current measurements, you can move to the 200mA range to get a bit more resolution, though that meter is a super cheap piece of kit...

Something around 20mA or less is reasonably typical on a modern vehicle to keep ECU alive, radio memory alive and other 'gadgets'.

I'd move to a lower range on your meter and at some point spend a little more to get something better . That thing looks kind of like the free junk meters that harbor freight gives away on occasion...

cheers,
george.

Hey george, you’re exactly right this is a POS freebie from harbor freight but right now its still working for showing the parasitic draw of 0.18A on that circuit. I plan to get a nicer unit but for now I need to work with what I have. What else is on the 10A Dome circuit? What do I need to test and how?

 

[Shoredreamer]

Dome fuse circuit has every interior lamp, every door switch, clock, radio, amp, combi meter, door warning dash light, seatbelt relay, moonroof relay. A lot of stuff, basically small amp circuits needing constant 12v. You said you had an aftermarket alarm installed??

 

[TankTheLC]

Dome fuse circuit has every interior lamp, every door switch, clock, radio, amp, combi meter, door warning dash light, seatbelt relay, moonroof relay. A lot of stuff, basically small amp circuits needing constant 12v. You said you had an aftermarket alarm installed??

Thats correct, its installed on one of the always on interior circuits - assuming when they removed the old alarm they reused some of the old connections.

 

[smritte]

One of the things that I would see at the shop when I had a draw on the dome circuit was, Visor light staying on. Switch is broken and you dont notice it. Its about 120ma depending on number of bulbs.

You said the electrical system is stock but, are you original owner? partially disconnected aftermarket alarms were the biggest draw i had when a customer bought a car used. A relay or module where they tapped into dome light circuit. most of these are under the driver side dash.

 

[TankTheLC]

One of the things that I would see at the shop when I had a draw on the dome circuit was, Visor light staying on. Switch is broken and you dont notice it. Its about 120ma depending on number of bulbs.

You said the electrical system is stock but, are you original owner? partially disconnected aftermarket alarms were the biggest draw i had when a customer bought a car used. A relay or module where they tapped into dome light circuit. most of these are under the driver side dash.

I am not the original owner but I am the happy 3rd owner haha. I had the viper alarm installed shortly after getting the vehicle last year as the original alarm would continually go off. Going to play with the jam switches when I get off work today and see if I can find the alarm fuse/relay

 

[smritte]

Going to play with the jam switches

Jamb switches are on the wrong side of the circuit. They will leave the dome lights on. If they fed a body control module a dimming or delay module, that would be different. Focus on the circuits from bulb to fuse. A shorted wire will either blow a fuse/burn a wire before the bulb or leave the dome light on after the bulb. Because you didn't say (or I missed it) either of those, its down to something tied in or a light you cant see.

My usb ports I have tied into my system (not dome) draw about 100ma just sitting. I've had people kill their batteries over time with a cigarette lighter usb adapter.

EDIT: If a partially disconnected alarm was tied into the jamb circuit and "if" the jamb switch was passing a slight amount of voltage due to corrosion, this "may not" turn on the dome lights but could engage the module enough to draw.
I've learned to never say cant happen.
Had almost this exact problem turn a customers radio on in the middle of the night. When the outside temp dropped the corrosion in a connector bridged enough voltage to turn on the radio. when you opened the door, it went off. It would take several days to bridge again. Found this one by accident.

 

[TankTheLC]

Jamb switches are on the wrong side of the circuit. They will leave the dome lights on. If they fed a body control module a dimming or delay module, that would be different. Focus on the circuits from bulb to fuse. A shorted wire will either blow a fuse/burn a wire before the bulb or leave the dome light on after the bulb. Because you didn't say (or I missed it) either of those, its down to something tied in or a light you cant see.

My usb ports I have tied into my system (not dome) draw about 100ma just sitting. I've had people kill their batteries over time with a cigarette lighter usb adapter.

EDIT: If a partially disconnected alarm was tied into the jamb circuit and "if" the jamb switch was passing a slight amount of voltage due to corrosion, this "may not" turn on the dome lights but could engage the module enough to draw.
I've learned to never say cant happen.
Had almost this exact problem turn a customers radio on in the middle of the night. When the outside temp dropped the corrosion in a connector bridged enough voltage to turn on the radio. when you opened the door, it went off. It would take several days to bridge again. Found this one by accident.

Cigarette light is disconnected pigtail is just hanging. The only usb port is on the radio itself and doesn’ draw or transmit power when key off. I think its the latter - one of the door jambs work intermittently and I think it might be drawing but not enough to activate lights.

 

[landcrshr]

the blue wire looks to be FL AM1 1.25B in the following diagram

For the record, the BLUE fusible link wire is the FL "MAIN", not the FL "AM1". (L= bLue)

Good luck, sounds like you're narrowing it down.

 

[BILT4ME]

Seeing your photos of the fusible links, I hope you did not arc that blue wire against your fuel evap canister while working. Those ends are hot and can arc to anything ground......

Also, Toyota switches the GROUND side of the circuit. Most US auto makers and electrical shops switch the HOT side of the circuit.

So, in the event of a door jamb switch, it is closing the ground side of the circuit to turn on the lights. Has the dome light ever turned on when you turn left? That seems to be a common one and indicates the door jamb switch on the PS front door.

Keep chasing the drain! I think you're going about this in the correct, methodical way!

 

[smritte]

Cigarette light is disconnected pigtail is just hanging. The only usb port is on the radio itself and doesn’ draw or transmit power when key off. I think its the latter - one of the door jambs work intermittently and I think it might be drawing but not enough to activate lights.

Good deal. Please don't forget to check the visors, disconnect them if needed to test. This was the most common issue I would see.

 

[paulzak]

This is a really dumb question but I have to ask... The dome light switches are off, right? Do the dome lights work properly under normal conditions? Assuming so, I'd remove the light fixture one at a time. Maybe some high resistance short in the dome light itself? It's quick in any case.

 

[TankTheLC]

Update: I have unplugged all 4 door jamb connectors and the voltage drop is still present. I also unplugged and removed the old radio amplifier (I had unplugged it a while ago but fully removed it today). I also completely removed to visors to make sure they weren’t the problem. I’m still going to take out the dome lights but I’m not sure where else to look (Visors unplugged, door jambs all unplugged minus whatever controls the rear hatch switch to the dome light).

Seeing your photos of the fusible links, I hope you did not arc that blue wire against your fuel evap canister while working. Those ends are hot and can arc to anything ground......

Also, Toyota switches the GROUND side of the circuit. Most US auto makers and electrical shops switch the HOT side of the circuit.

So, in the event of a door jamb switch, it is closing the ground side of the circuit to turn on the lights. Has the dome light ever turned on when you turn left? That seems to be a common one and indicates the door jamb switch on the PS front door.

Keep chasing the drain! I think you're going about this in the correct, methodical way!

Thank you, I don’t think it arced and the car is running fine no issues with no power anywhere. I’ve never had a dome light turn on when I left. I still need to look over the alarm system.

Good deal. Please don't forget to check the visors, disconnect them if needed to test. This was the most common issue I would see.

Checked - no resolve

This is a really dumb question but I have to ask... The dome light switches are off, right? Do the dome lights work properly under normal conditions? Assuming so, I'd remove the light fixture one at a time. Maybe some high resistance short in the dome light itself? It's quick in any case.

Dome light switches are in the door position and not illuminated. I plan to remove them one by one in a bit. The done lights are the pfran led panels and only a couple months old.

 

[george_tlc]

I assume the ring light around the ignition key is 100% OFF when the vehicle is just sitting (key out of ignition)?

cheers,
george.

 

[smritte]

Not having a schematic available on your vehicle, I'm out of ideas on things to disconnect. I can suggest this, anytime I got my butt handed to me on something like this, I went back to the beginning. You had stated that removing the dome light fuse made the issue stop. Do it again and make sure you didn't actually confuse the circuits (guess why I know this).

Your next step is to find the connectors in the positive side of the circuit and disconnect them one at a time. You must check to see if the draw is still there after each one. I would be installing my amp meter in the fuse spot from here on out. You may want to install a 5 amp fuse inline to your amp meter just in case. This spot in the game is all about eliminate what is not broken. This type of diagnostic can be very time consuming and tedious. leave the stuff off you have removed, look at the schematic and start working it down. I shutter to advise this but, I have on occasion had to cut wiring because there wasn't a connector. I did this to isolate which leg the problem was at a large splice. I do not recommend this unless you have no choice. You have eliminated all (or most) of the items and it appears you have only something tied into the system either aftermarket or factory you haven't found yet. Remember, your not looking for a shorted wire, that blows fuses, its going to be an item.

I did get my butt handed to me on something similar and it turned out Lojac ties into the dome circuit. The unit had an issue and it was hidden so well I only found it by accident. Funny thing is, the draw was about what your experiencing. After the first one, I had 3 others over the years. I figured them out pretty quick now that I knew what to look for.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

My money is on the viper

 

[TankTheLC]

I assume the ring light around the ignition key is 100% OFF when the vehicle is just sitting (key out of ignition)?

cheers,
george.

Pending confirmation

Not having a schematic available on your vehicle, I'm out of ideas on things to disconnect. I can suggest this, anytime I got my butt handed to me on something like this, I went back to the beginning. You had stated that removing the dome light fuse made the issue stop. Do it again and make sure you didn't actually confuse the circuits (guess why I know this).

Your next step is to find the connectors in the positive side of the circuit and disconnect them one at a time. You must check to see if the draw is still there after each one. I would be installing my amp meter in the fuse spot from here on out. You may want to install a 5 amp fuse inline to your amp meter just in case. This spot in the game is all about eliminate what is not broken. This type of diagnostic can be very time consuming and tedious. leave the stuff off you have removed, look at the schematic and start working it down. I shutter to advise this but, I have on occasion had to cut wiring because there wasn't a connector. I did this to isolate which leg the problem was at a large splice. I do not recommend this unless you have no choice. You have eliminated all (or most) of the items and it appears you have only something tied into the system either aftermarket or factory you haven't found yet. Remember, your not looking for a shorted wire, that blows fuses, its going to be an item.

I did get my butt handed to me on something similar and it turned out Lojac ties into the dome circuit. The unit had an issue and it was hidden so well I only found it by accident. Funny thing is, the draw was about what your experiencing. After the first one, I had 3 others over the years. I figured them out pretty quick now that I knew what to look for.

I had a black box underneath the front center console I assumed was lojac or cellular box - its not there anymore but the wiring is. I’ll retrace my steps to make sure Im not missing anything.

My money is on the viper

Im going over there now to ask the tech some questions before fiddling with it.

 

[ppc]

I assume the ring light around the ignition key is 100% OFF when the vehicle is just sitting (key out of ignition)?

cheers,
george.

Read the thread I found below related to the malfunctioning ring light. The ring light is controlled by the "room lamp control module".
That device was found to be the cause of parasitic battery drain.

Repairing the Room Lamp Control Module aka Ignition Key Cylinder Light Relay

Edit 8/6/2013: SOLUTION FOUND. It's the little glass component on the far side of the brass tabs. Cut it off. Or replace it. See if i care. I have that "ignition cylinder light never turns all the way off" issue. We've seen the threads - here and here. The part number is 85965-60010 and it...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[TankTheLC]

Big update need some advice. Drove to the install shop to ask the tech a couple questions and pulled out the multimeter(s). First the harbor freight one doesn’t read right - straight into the trash. We tested using a matco and bosch multimeter and found the parasitic draw to be 0.043A with system fuses in place and 0.016A with the fuses pulled from the security system. Both of these numbers should be in the acceptable range and should take a very long time to drain a battery (Especially a new interstate battery thats one month old). So the issue is something on the system intermittently pulls more while the car is off - but I have no idea how to troubleshoot that. Currently leaving the security system fuses removed in hopes the parasitic draw spike doesn’t flare up while its turned off.

PS: The benefit to living in a college town is the electrical engineering kids sell their old nice multimeters for cheap. So naturally I bought a used Fluke for $30. Tested it to make sure voltage read right and it did. Tested it to confirm the paraditic draw and if I understand the new multimeter right it is drawing 17.17mA with the security system disconnected and 10A dome fuse in place. With dome fuse removed the parasitic draw reading is 12.11mA.

 

[ppc]

Absolutely do not lay your ratchet wrench or other tools on top of the battery.

 

[smritte]

well, at least you learned two things
there is a difference in meter quality and how to track a parasitic draw. I guess a third would be intermittent parasitic draws suck to find.
Fluke 75 is a nice meter. I had a 74 and replaced it with an 87. Now some of my diagnostics require a lab scope. Hope you never need to go that far.