Heater Hose/Tee Replacment (1 Viewer)

[Timmy65]

Sorry buddy, but I’m not a fan boy of anyone, at all. I’m just referring to someone I watch on YouTube that does a good job on explaining Toyota’s and recently as I mentioned, specifically talked about OEM versus aftermarket parts, which I thought was very pertinent to this thread . I do not follow his videos for learning how to do repairs, nor do I ever click on any channels recommendations. I am subscribed to exactly 0 YouTube channels..

You are right. I definitely do not know who you are or any of the videos you make. What I do know is that I read a thread that has been repeated 1 million different times and seemed to point towards purchasing a non stock part from a certain person.

I’m sorry that you felt insulted, but I didn’t say anything negative about you nor the vendor. A new thread about an old subject, referencing a vendor comes off as a for sale thread anyway you look at it. That vendor does a great job already and those tees are already referenced in heater tee conversations.

Thank you for explaining your business and model, but this was really just about my heater tees, the corrosion, plastic oem parts, and a reference to a critique of parts supplies by a Toyota professional.

Come on Dude. You didn't say anything negative or insulting? I'm not a brain surgeon but I can certainly read between the lines and get the gist of what you're inferring. You first label my thread as a "For Sale" thread when it's nothing of the sort. The "Purpose" of my video posts is to share information, and yes, I have an opinion that I share freely. It's my opinion a brass version of the plastic tee is a better way to go. People can take or leave my opinion.

It's clear I'm a DIY Toyota/Lexus YouTuber and then you plug The Car Care Nut by saying, "he’s THE Toyota Master on YouTube IMHO." That was an intentional slight towards my contribution to the DIY Toyota/Lexus Auto Mechanic Community. Even if that wasn't your intention, put yourself in my shoes and then reread your comment and see how you would have responded to your comment.

 

[Timmy65]

Timmy - really appreciate the time and effort put into making these how to videos. As for parts, I think it's nice to have options when caring for our rigs and enjoy the debates that ensue. Since I'm stuck on work calls I went into my parts stash and grabbed my caliper....

This is comparing parts 87248-60460 (plastic Tee) vs 87248-95400 (Brass tee - denso/made in Japan).

See picture with measurements below. I rounded up but dimensions are within such tight tolerance and identical across parts that it's not worth posting all measurements. For functional purposes they're identical, same width height, length of flare, you name it.

Keep all the great content coming!

View attachment 3812390

Thanks for doing the comparison for us. At least we know they are identical in dimension now.

 

[2001LC]

Thanks for sharing yet another great video, Timmy.

Your, DIY videos are the best out there, IMHO! If you make a dime on click-throughs, you certainly deserve it.

Showing the care needed, when removing these hoses. Is important. Many have place to much pressure on pipe coming off rear water bypass. Result in leak at pipes pressed in fit on rear water bypass. Or crushed the soft aluminum pipes on firewall side (upper pipes are part of core). You do, much more right than anyone I've seen.

I may not agree with all your procedures or statements. But I do with, 98% of them. We've a few pro shop posting videos and info in here mud. Some of procedure they use, are so wrong. They're teaching how to damaged, yet haven't figured it out yet. I have the advantage, over most anyone in the world. In that I specialize on 100 series 7 days a week. I'm in my shops working on one, every day. I also take my time, never trying to beat the clock (hrly book rate). I just don't care how long it takes, to do a good and lasting job.

I, like @ranma21. Just use OEM plastic Tee's. Fitment, is always perfect, cost low and readily available. Also heat transfer, expansion and contraction, is as designed for hoses and clamps. Additionally Toyota went with more aluminum and plastic in 100 series and up, to reduce weight gram by gram.
One issue with "most" non OEM tees. Is lower (rear heater core) hose has is smaller ID and most tees have same OD on all three ends. Those OEM brass, are cool and address size. But they will transfer more heat to rubber and clamp. Also the argument, of introducing a metal, isn't even a consideration (KISS) with plastic.

I find the plastic tees, last a very long time. Provided coolant system properly maintained. Once every 10 Yr R&R, is perhaps to often in properly PM system. But it's also the only time I blow out heater cores, is when Tees out. So a good PM, IMHO. But if someone want metal, so be it. But, best to use more restrictive flush schedule, unless aluminum or plastic IMHO. Also may find hoses, don't last as long, do added heat retention of metal.

Two keys:
1) no air in coolant system. The Tee's like the plastic radiator top. Are the high points, air travel and collects in, during cool down. The plastic in air, dries out fast. Which leads to premature plastic failure.
2) Replacing coolant on schedule and or using Toyota coolant is best.

Interestingly, I find the older (Red) systems, plastic last longer. It's my understanding the Toyota coolant has a plasticizer. That by using shorter schedule of 30K miles or 2 yr of Red flushing. The plasticizer is renewed more often. Whereas the SSL (pink), is to depleted at 100K miles or 10yr, then 50K miles or 5yr thereafter.

We see the effects of hot dry air (not fully burped) in system, on radiator top plastic. It, prematurely browns and cracks them.

A stuck cap or system running to hot. Like into 205F plus increases pressure to much. Pressure blows weak plastic.


Personally, I only replace the first hose when R&R heater Tees. Unless other hoses look damaged, like from heat. If engine running to hot to long. Hoses become swollen. Those I will replace. But only about 1 in 100 need the hoses R&R, to date.

You'll know when you see one I've done a coolant service on. The first curved hose on hot side (LH side) coming off rear water bypass joint pipe. Has been replaced. It's clamp at Tee, is turn up for easy access. All other clamps, are place back in factory position in same impression in old rubber hosed (toyota recommends). That one hose I do replace, is since tee plastic may bust within. The plastic may break apart and fall into engine side, where I can't blow out. So i cut hose away from water bypass pipe, leaving plastic side hose and it's clamp on, until on the beach.

My coolant service:

1. Wash radiator fins, inspecting fan clutch, serp belt and bearing of pulleys included fan bracket. I use your procedure Timmy, to test fan clutch. Except I use water pressure, instead of rolled up paper.
2. Drain block & rad and blow out rad and block.
3. R&R tees, and blow out heater cores.
4. R&R thermostat.
5. R&R cap.
6. Fill system with coolant. Use year spec Toyota coolant. 98-03 Toy LL (red) mixed with D-water 50/50. 04-up Toy SLL (pink) pre mix.
7. Burping air over next few heating and cooling cycles. (repeat until no air found in rad top under cap)

Ever year in mud, as cold weather hits. We see post:"My cabin heats not blowing hot". I say" check coolant level in radiator". They say: "my coolants level is fine. "Reservoir is full and water temp gauge shows I'm good". I say again: "Check your coolant level under radiator cap". Running cool below half way on gauge, may be false reading. Where ECT sensors, is reading air temp in a low system (the achilles heel, of the 100 series). We want to see gauge center at 3 o'clock. Guess what, 99 out of 100 do find coolant in radiatror low. Top and heater blow very hot!

Below is from 98-03 system FSM. 03-07 system, only change to FSM. Is we use Toy SLL (pink) pre mix (no D-water added).

Note: FSM should state: Fill radiator again, after cool down, then reservoir. Repeat until no air gap found on cold morning before starting engine, under radiator cap. A design issue, that was correct in the 200 series expansion tank. Where we must, get all air out of system.

Note: It states "open heaters water valve". That's a miss print. A holdover from when, coolant didn't flow constantly through the heater cores & pipes. Those days are thankfully gone. Where we had to replace or repair holes in heater cores, pipes and stuck water valves often. Due to stagnant coolant close in cores during summer fall and spring, by valve.

The one hose I almost always replace. If the first hot out flow from engine rear water bypass to tee.

I just use (Dawn) Dish soap as my lubicatan. As recommend in FSM. Seems to with help with install lube and with bonding later.
The hot water pipe coming off rear water bypass. Is one we must take care, to not put side pressure on. Or we break the pressed in bond, result in a leak.

As always, I use new Toyota gasket & thermostat, and make very sure jiggle valve at top to insure proper air bleed off.

Jiggle valve up, new gasket (O-ring) and thermostat. Tip: hold thermostat in place, I use a feeler gauge blade, as I place on water inlet cap. Torque 3 nuts to 14ft-lbf evenly working down nuts in sequence. We do not tighten until leak stops, we're not plumberms.

One other area needs a very close look, is the expansion tank and it's hose & cap assembly.

First, hose must drop straight down. To often I find the hose is caught on shelf, then hose curls upward. It will then suck air during cool down. As hose end stick up above coolant in reservoir/expansion tank.

This one was curled up, still retain some of the curl after attempt to straighten.

Hose and cap, must be checked for obstruction. Easy way, is place palm of hand on open neck of radiator. Squeeze upper radiator hose. Coolant will flow back and forth through reservoir hose.

I've found thes plugged before. Likely someone add a stop leak, which we don't like to see added.

Note: 200 series 5.7, plastic Tees are still used. But the hoses have changed, to have loops in hose, making rubber hose loop the high point.

Also worth a note: 200 series redesigned the expansion tank (coolant reservoir). It works better, when small amount of air in radiator top. It, self burps unlike our 100 series, which require we manually look under radiator cap for air and top until no air. But air can still end up in high pockets.

The 200 series radiator has a design flaw. Where a badge at the top plastic, capture air. This badges plastic then dries out, and cracks. We PM this radiator around 100K 10yr. Or they very often break thereafter.
200 series radiator:

 

[hoser]

I’m happy to report that I’ve had perfect success installing Toyota plastic tees into my 06 LX two weeks ago. I replaced the metal tees that began to develop a leak where there was corrosion around the metal…. The metal tees were perhaps 6 years old, fresh coolant and no weird chemicals in the system, just red bug juice.

While there is a great service here in providing alternative parts, there is no argument to be made against the stock parts. The only argument to be made is against poor maintenance practices, that don’t replace parts before they fail.

A new reader should look at all of the threads on these tees, not just this “for sale” thread. It’s one of the most well documented “issues” of this platform.

I keep seeing new parts offered for this platform claiming to be OE/OEM, and then with research see it’s not the case. Some of these vendors are buying bulk from the parts manufacturers and then repackaging as if it was Toyota OEM. That process is very different than having a wholesale account with Toyota and making a couple bucks off the sales portal and distribution that an individual creates. TCCN had a good video this past week about parts and Toyota and some Do’s and Dont’s. If you don’t know TCCN, time to become a fan, he’s THE Toyota Master on YouTube IMHO.

Were your metal T's that corroded the Toyota brass ones we are talking about here or aftermarket ones?

The Brass Tee's Cruiserpatch is selling is indeed made by Toyota. They were used on the 70/80 Series, Megacruiser, Dyna, Hiace into the 2000's. They were mostly used diesel engines with cast iron blocks and cast iron heads and with brass radiators. However, Toyota did spec them out for use in gas engines such as the 1FZ/22R with aluminum heads and some LC's with aluminum radiators. Whether it was a mistake or a cost cutting measure to go to plastic, I don't know.

 

[BullElk]

Ok so Toyota used the metal Ts on earlier models. Why did they decide to then change to a plastic material? Os it better or is it simply the second mistake Toyota has made within the Land Cruiser genus, alongside the plastic headlights?

 

[hoser]

Note: It states "open heaters water valve". That's a miss print. A holdover from when, coolant didn't flow constantly through the heater cores & pipes. Those days are thankfully gone. Where we had to replace or repair holes in heater cores, pipes and stuck water valves often. Due to stagnant coolant close in cores during summer fall and spring, by valve.

Note: 200 series 5.7, plastic Tees are still used. But the hoses have changed, to have loops in hose, making rubber hose loop the high point.

The "cheaper" 1st gen Sequoia still used heater water valves all the way to 2007. They also had the same plastic T's but cracked T's aren't a widespread issue for the Sequoia. Obviously, it'll still disintegrate over time but probably last 1.5-2x as long.

As you mentioned, the 200 does indeed use plastic T's for the rear heating system. However, they changed plastic composition in 2013.

2008-2012 LC200 used >PA66 GF30< ..........(30% glass fibre reinforced PA 66)
2013+ LC200 used >PA6T-GF35< ...........(35% glass fibre reinforced PA 66)

 

[cruiserpatch]

It's fine to use (or suggest) brass tees if that's the route you want to go. But it is wrong to claim or associate that brass tees are in any way "OEM" in the 100 series - It's simply not the case.

In defense of Timmy, I’m the guy claiming these are OEM tees.

OEM heater tee options

We stock brass tees and plastic tees to suit anyone’s preference. It is our opinion that the brass tees found in the megacruiser, 80 series, 70 series, 60 series and many other Toyota cooling systems are a viable option for those who want to eliminate the OE plastics.

We also stock heater tee delete kits (removes rear heat functionality) for those who want to completely eliminate a weak link in the cooling system of the 2UZ or 3UR engines.

I’m on my honeymoon right now but will be back in the office on Monday to restock inventory on these, some of our most popular items.

 

[ranma21]

Ok, so the massive cast iron engine block has coolant passageways in it. Iron can have a galvanic corrosion reaction with aluminum. So, why did the Toyota Engineers pair an Iron block with aluminum heads? So, with that fact, do you still think those tiny brass tees are going to have an ill-effect on the aluminum components of the engine?

There will be galvanic corrosion when 2 different metals are in contact including aluminum and iron in the case of 2UZ as well but very minimal if any. If you refer back to the galvanic series, you will have a clearer picture of why Toyota or majority of automanufacturer uses Alumnium head with iron block. We will save the story of the advantage of using aluminum head and iron block in building engine for another day. Iron and aluminium is almost next to each other and considered to be least noble anodic in the galvanic series thus galvanic corrosion is almost non existence.

So again the idea is to avoid mixing multiple metals in an engine cooling system to avoid galvanic corrosion if possible. Will brass T cause major issues/ corrosion to your aluminum components in your engine, probably not. Will galvanic corrosion happen when you use brass metal in 2UZ cooling system? I am sure the answer is clear. Now of course it is one personal choice to choose what they prefer to use in your LC, after all we cruiserheads are always chasing the best for our cruisers. Cheers =)

Fun read.

Galvanic Corrosion Chart | Industrial Metal Service

Dive into Bronze vs Brass: The Difference Between These Metal Alloys and optimize your metal operations. Learn only the best practices here! Start now.

industrialmetalservice.com

 

[baltistyle]

Were your metal T's that corroded the Toyota brass ones we are talking about here or aftermarket ones?

The Brass Tee's Cruiserpatch is selling is indeed made by Toyota. They were used on the 70/80 Series, Megacruiser, Dyna, Hiace into the 2000's. They were mostly used diesel engines with cast iron blocks and cast iron heads and with brass radiators. However, Toyota did spec them out for use in gas engines such as the 1FZ/22R with aluminum heads and some LC's with aluminum radiators. Whether it was a mistake or a cost cutting measure to go to plastic, I don't know.

They were installed before my ownership of this lx so probably about six or seven years ago. I couldn’t tell you the exact brand. I’ll go check my old parts and see if I can find them and grab a picture. The point of my statement about oem is that never ever was a metal tee a stock part of my or any 06 LX 470 . When I originally got the vehicle and saw the metal tees it didn’t concern me at all as they did look like a near stock replica, not a Home Depot solution. I have an 06 and when I removed these tees, holding them next to new oem stock they visually looked exactly the same, but when installing the diameters were indeed slightly different, I didn’t put a set of calipers on them because they didn’t seem to leak due to their diameter, but because they got corrosion all over them. The corrosion was due to the coolant. Similar to how you might see corrosion or pitting around where your coolant hose connects to the thermostat housing nipple. left unchecked that corrosion travels and eventually the part leaks. So while it’s interesting to read a bunch of “basic” theories on galvanic corrosion, we’re not talking about two dis similar metals touching. What we do know is that plastic becomes brittle due to heat and metal becomes pitted due to improper coolant chemistry.

I will peek around for those parts later today because often times I save things like this.

 

[medtro]

I keep seeing new parts offered for this platform claiming to be OE/OEM, and then with research see it’s not the case. Some of these vendors are buying bulk from the parts manufacturers and then repackaging as if it was Toyota OEM.

The Brass Tee's Cruiserpatch is selling is indeed made by Toyota. They were used on the 70/80 Series, Megacruiser, Dyna, Hiace into the 2000's. They were mostly used diesel engines with cast iron blocks and cast iron heads and with brass radiators.

Good to know Cruiserpatch updated his product listing. He has listed an aftermarket Tee as "TOYOTA GENUINE PARTS" last year.

 

[hoser]

I remember he had both OE and aftermarket listed on the same page. The text was correct but the photo didn’t change when making a selection. That was just poor website editing.

Edit: this site has issues too. Maybe it's the same webpage Editor!

Land Cruiser 100 Heater Tee

Land Cruiser 100 Series Heater Tee sold in pairs. Toyota OEM plastic 87248-60460 Toyota OEM Brass from 80 Series 87248-BRASS

www.asrparts.com

 

[medtro]

I remember he had both OE and aftermarket listed on the same page. The text was correct but the photo didn’t change when making a selection. That was just poor website editing.

Edit: this site has issues too. Maybe it's the same webpage Editor!

Land Cruiser 100 Heater Tee

Land Cruiser 100 Series Heater Tee sold in pairs. Toyota OEM plastic 87248-60460 Toyota OEM Brass from 80 Series 87248-BRASS

www.asrparts.com

The text was for both OEM and metal Ts. The problem was all of the heater-T pictures have "TOYOTA GENUINE PARTS" mark. It was confusing and misleading.