Head Gasket done - no start (1 Viewer)

[thatcabledude]

What a cluster.

 

[stpetedale]

Thanks. Looks to be about 1/8th inch recessed from flush with block? From posted picture looks to be about same amount of hose to right of clamp after mated to block.

 

[Rookie2]

Well the block not being fully seated would explain a lot. In hindsight, it almost had to be something like that, but no reasons came to mind that would keep the block from being fully seated.

I guess the next question becomes, what all could have been damaged and what all needs to be checked?

 

[george_tlc]

@musthave did you remove/wash all the oil off for your pictures (crank, journals, bearings, etc etc)? Everything looks incredibly oil-free in your pictures...

cheers,
george.

 

[yknot123]

It looks as if the PHH clamp caused interference between the block and head. You can see the indentation from it once you took the head off.
I’ve noted this interference when installing the head and how it did not seat perfectly flush. The PHH clamp needs to be installed with this in mind. This could have caused coolant to enter the system.
View attachment 2316112View attachment 2316113

Have been following this as many others have. Was lucky doing my HG two winters ago. Good catch about the PHH and hose clamp. Advice I got from our shop about clamps was this. The original squeeze clamps are the best. They were right. I made sure to use the OEM Squeeze clamps for every connection. Many I was able to reuse and replaced the ones that were loose. Toyota knows how to make a 80 go 200-300K. They also know how to make clamps. Not worth using a hose clamp designed for plumbing. My two cents worth. Sorry to see so much work and wish you good luck in the rebuild.

 

[blkprj80]

Was your oil pan full of the red antifreeze? Was your oil level way over full?
I'm wondering if your possible HG leak caused you to pump antifreeze from the bottom of the oil pan, thus washing all the bearings free of oil.

 

[musthave]

Good catch on that! That's the voice of experience!

No doubt, I agree. Attention to detail was overlooked when it came to this clamp.

I got into a habit years ago of using a small inspection mirror anytime I install precision parts. Especially where it's hard to see like the back of the 80 engine. I even use it for the valve cover gasket.
When I was lowering the head with the cherry picker, i noticed this interference. Made some adjustment and finished the job.

That's probably the right approach. Hindsight..

Great observation. Definitely looks like the constant clamp indention on HG. Might just be from positioning and lowering head onto motor. It looks from pic that clamp is in the clear? I would think a rectangle imprint from clamp on HG would be present about an inch long if it didn't seat flush? Is the rear of the phh nipple flush with motor block when mounted?

I was hasty in taking off the cylinder head to make my "discovery" of what was wrong. If I had taken it slowly, I probably would've noticed the clamp.

That takes the “pesky” in PHH to a whole new level.

Wow, yeah, it really does.

^^^^
Not really:
But the clamp doesn't need to be right up against the head, there is plenty of 'nipple' to engage....if it hasn't been shortened.

It hadn't been shortened, I just went big. And for what?

What a cluster.

That describes it, no doubt.

Thanks. Looks to be about 1/8th inch recessed from flush with block? From posted picture looks to be about same amount of hose to right of clamp after mated to block.

There's always a chance that the mark on the gasket came from removing the cylinder head that still had the intake items still attached.

Well the block not being fully seated would explain a lot. In hindsight, it almost had to be something like that, but no reasons came to mind that would keep the block from being fully seated.

I guess the next question becomes, what all could have been damaged and what all needs to be checked?

The next question, that will hopefully get a positive answer at a machine shop.

@musthave did you remove/wash all the oil off for your pictures (crank, journals, bearings, etc etc)? Everything looks incredibly oil-free in your pictures...

cheers,
george.

No, this is as it was. I think the antifreeze bath washed out a lof of the oil.

Have been following this as many others have. Was lucky doing my HG two winters ago. Good catch about the PHH and hose clamp. Advice I got from our shop about clamps was this. The original squeeze clamps are the best. They were right. I made sure to use the OEM Squeeze clamps for every connection. Many I was able to reuse and replaced the ones that were loose. Toyota knows how to make a 80 go 200-300K. They also know how to make clamps. Not worth using a hose clamp designed for plumbing. My two cents worth. Sorry to see so much work and wish you good luck in the rebuild.

You're absolutely right. I went with the big clamp and gates hose so that I could do the bypass. In hindsight, Toyota did it that way for a reason, I probably should have stayed with their years of experience. My own meandering experience is nil compared with theirs. The clamp I used was great, but not likely necessary, and potentially a problem.

I guess from here, it's off to the machine shop. Spoke with @BILT4ME for a few hours yesterday as we disassembled the bearings. The machine will determine the next step. Hopefully a set of connecting rod bearings, main bearings, clean, polish, and hone the cylinders. If the cylinders can't be honed and needs to be bored, then a new block is in this cruisers future. I am hoping for the first option, but am preparing myself for either.

 

[flintknapper]

Thanks. Looks to be about 1/8th inch recessed from flush with block? From posted picture looks to be about same amount of hose to right of clamp after mated to block.

 

[Rookie2]

I'm wondering if your possible HG leak caused you to pump antifreeze from the bottom of the oil pan, thus washing all the bearings free of oil.

My understanding the way it works is the bearing is clamped hard the crank when you tighten down the rods, and you do not want any oil between the bearings and the crank or you’ll end up with spun bearings. And so the bearing surfaces do not get oiled.

 

[BILT4ME]

My understanding the way it works is the bearing is clamped hard the crank when you tighten down the rods, and you do not want any oil between the bearings and the crank or you’ll end up with spun bearings. And so the bearing surfaces do not get oiled.

What?!?!?

 

[flintknapper]

My understanding the way it works is the bearing is clamped hard the crank when you tighten down the rods, and you do not want any oil between the bearings and the crank or you’ll end up with spun bearings. And so the bearing surfaces do not get oiled.

Not sure If I am misunderstanding your meaning but...you never want 'metal to metal' contact on reciprocating parts (Crank, Rods, Cams, Piston Skirts, Wrist Pins, etc) they are supposed to ride on and be supported by a thin layer of oil.

 

[ppc]

Not "clamped hard". The bearings need to be properly clearanced for proper amount oil to lubricate and room for thermal expansion. That is why you measure clearance with Plastigage.

 

[Rookie2]

Not sure If I am misunderstanding your meaning but...you never want 'metal to metal' contact on reciprocating parts (Crank, Rods, Cams, Piston Skirts, Wrist Pins, etc) they are supposed to ride on and be supported by a

Yeah, I think I misunderstood how it rotates. Looks like the outside of the bearing doesn’t get a coat of lube but the inside does.

 

[flintknapper]

Hmm, I didn’t think the bearings were supposed to move relative to the crank and that you didn’t want lubricant between the two because it would facilitate slippage between the bearing and crank and eventually lead to a spun bearing.

They aren't supposed to move. I fear we are taking about different sides of the bearing?

The 'face' of the bearing should always have lubrication. Perhaps you are referring the back side of it?

 

[stpetedale]

This has really turned into a Matlock episode I just can't picture that clamp being the culprit. There seemed to be plenty of clearance around side and bottom of Phh nipple to not interfere with head seating flush. Hopefully the machine shop takes pity on your wallet!

 

[musthave]

This has really turned into a Matlock episode I just can't picture that clamp being the culprit. There seemed to be plenty of clearance around side and bottom of Phh nipple to not interfere with head seating flush. Hopefully the machine shop takes pity on your wallet!

No doubt! Trying to decide where to take the block. There aren't a plethora of machine shops around that do this stuff.

 

[ccslider]

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[musthave]

This is why you don't follow advice on the internet..

So the machine shop said that the head is 100% perfect, no issues at all. They saw the same spot on the head gasket though. They pressure tested again, and the head is good. So...

Like @ccslider said, I can afford a new engine , so today I ordered my new engine, and head, and timing chain cover, and... Wow, the list goes on. There are a few things that I am still considering, but not sure if they're really needed. New camshafts? New crankshaft pulley? What do others typically do when they decide to replace the block and head?

 

[ccslider]

So the machine shop said that the head is 100% perfect, no issues at all. They saw the same spot on the head gasket though. They pressure tested again, and the head is good. So...

Like @ccslider said, I can afford a new engine , so today I ordered my new engine, and head, and timing chain cover, and... Wow, the list goes on. There are a few things that I am still considering, but not sure if they're really needed. New camshafts? New crankshaft pulley? What do others typically do when they decide to replace the block and head?

While you're in there.. transmission, transfer case, drive shafts, axles, just ask Joe rogan for his build sheet

 

[musthave]

While you're in there.. transmission, transfer case, drive shafts, axles, just ask Joe rogan for his build sheet

LOL, I've got a new transmission, but not a transfercase. Got new axles when I did the knuckles in February.