Head Gasket: Broken Head Bolt Final Decision. (1 Viewer)

[Kennyfzj80]

Laid out the new HG, put the head back on and doing my 90 degree turns after torquing to spec.

The freaking last head bolt snaps off during the last 90 degree turn. I am assuming that the bolt is stuck in the block.

Looking at the bolt, do you think some of it is sticking out of the block or did it snap in the block. I'm guessing the flush part goes through the head with the threads going into the block.

Since it is just one bolt, can I just ooze some really strong adhesive/compound inside the hole??

I am fantasizing about limping this car into the desert and blowing it up and would like to know the laws in California regarding doing this on BLM land. Thank you.

 

[NLXTACY]

So you used Landtank's torque-to-snap method I take it? Don't bother sticking any adhesive down the hole. You need to remove all the head bolts and remove the head. Then you can gain access to the remainder of the bolt. Did you reuse the bolts?

 

[Kennyfzj80]

So you used Landtank's torque-to-snap method I take it? Don't bother sticking any adhesive down the hole. You need to remove all the head bolts and remove the head. Then you can gain access to the remainder of the bolt. Did you reuse the bolts?

I reused the bolts.

They looked okay and wanted to spend as little money as possible. The goal of this rig was to learn about my engine, not restoration. If I got it up and running that would've been an awesome bonus.

I initially thought I would F--k this up somehow and I would in the end, part this car.

Seems like after I remove the head, the bolt will be inside the block. I would probably have to go buy bolt extractors (more money). I would also have to buy new bolts also.

If I can shoot something down the hole and have this car run for 30K miles I would be happy.

I would also be happy with parting the whole thing and disassembling other parts to learn even more.

So what are my options if I don't want to unbolt everything and remove the head again?

How important is that one bolt?

 

[dallen341]

You already know the answer...pull the head. Bolt may be proud of the block in which case vice grips can be used to grab the bolt and back it out

Sent from my iPad using IH8MUD

 

[Pin_Head]

You can probably get the remains out by sticking the end of a 1/8 inch 7018 welding rod on to the remains and then just spinning it out. Stick the rod down the hole until it contacts the bolt remains and energize with your welder or two batteries in series for a couple of seconds.

 

[inkpot]

I reused the bolts.

They looked okay and wanted to spend as little money as possible. The goal of this rig was to learn about my engine, not restoration. If I got it up and running that would've been an awesome bonus.

I initially thought I would F--k this up somehow and I would in the end, part this car.

Seems like after I remove the head, the bolt will be inside the block. I would probably have to go buy bolt extractors (more money). I would also have to buy new bolts also.

If I can shoot something down the hole and have this car run for 30K miles I would be happy.

I would also be happy with parting the whole thing and disassembling other parts to learn even more.

So what are my options if I don't want to unbolt everything and remove the head again?

How important is that one bolt?

Now your learning the heartbreak and frustration many of us have learned to live with while wrenching on our rigs. There is NO band-aid fix for this. You could just run it as is, but most likely you will experience head gasket failure in very short order. If there is not enough stub to grab with vice grips or whatever, then you will have to drill it out. I normally use a very small bit for the first hole and then enlarge by about 1/16 untill I can get a pretty large easy out into the bolt. Another item I have used with much success is a set of reverse drill bits, which of course requires a reversible drill. Same tecnique: Start very small making sure you do NOT dril thru the very bottom of the broken bolt. Then enlarge the hole by a little each time. If you make the first hole dead center, then you can drill about 80% of the bolt out without harming the threads. Usually the broken part will come out on the drill bit by then. John

 

[Rookie2]

Too deep to drill a hole in it and use a bolt extractor with the head still on?

 

[Splangy]

There's no way the bolt bottomed out, so it should spin easily if you can extract it somehow. I like pinhead's idea of giving it a zap with the end of a new welding rod and twisting it out.

You can also probably spin it right out with a long left hand drill bit.

 

[inkpot]

There's no way the bolt bottomed out, so it should spin easily if you can extract it somehow. I like pinhead's idea of giving it a zap with the end of a new welding rod and twisting it out.

You can also probably spin it right out with a long left hand drill bit.

That will work OK unless the broken piece is seized in the block. I'm thinking it is stuck pretty bad or it would not of broken that bolt off. Only one way to find out.................

 

[Pin_Head]

Just from looking at the bolt carefully, it looks like you might be able to pick it with a pair of hemostats or long needle nose pliers. The other end should have a little tab on it that looks like the one on the bolt. The bolt broke because it stretched, so it is probably not seized, so it should spin easily. You might even be able to spin it with a screwdriver by pushing on the edge.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Agree with Pinhead that it will spin right out. It broke because it was overstretched, not because it jammed (unless you left oil/water in the hole in which case it broke because it hydrolocked against the bottom and will still come out with no effort).

I'd buy or find a screwdriver long enough to reach down in and try spinning it right out with the head on. If you are able to easily spin it all the way loose it will be a steel part in an aluminum hole which means a strong magnet will pull it the rest of the way up and out. Or at that point fire a shot of brake cleaner with the red straw directly at the tip down there with the intent just to remove the oil right atop the bolt. Then mix up a blob of JB weld epoxy and put a mere dot on the old bolt and lower it in to mate up and go have a beer and forget about it for 24 hours. Hopefully you will come back and just pull it the rest of the way out. Sucks, but one way to look at it is you are one bolt away from starting reassembly. You may be able to handle this - I certainly think you can. You'll be waiting for a bolt anyhow....

DougM

 

[Howard705]

Never done it on one of these but always had good luck with the reverse drills on bolts like these that snapped from stretch and have good threads. Have used bit close to size to start-like a transfer punch- then small one once center started. If it doesn't work try easyout. Maybe weld it to long bolt as extension or find 1/4" drive socket that will fit square drive of easyout tight and add extension.
Like the JB weld idea.

 

[lp2k]

Didn't Landtank say when doing this job to use new bolts also?

 

[powermad]

Easy to fix. Many good ideas that work have been posted.
Welding rod works great if you have it.
Long screwdriver ground to fit if necessary works also.
Or a long pick.
It will spin right out unless you cross threaded it and it doesn't appear that it is.
Not a big deal and no reason to remove the head unless it is really buggered.

 

[4wdx4]

Didn't Landtank say when doing this job to use new bolts also?

Any time you have torque to yield bolts (angle after torque spec) you need to install new. The head really does need to come back off and the others replaced as well

 

[livinoffroad]

Didn't Landtank say when doing this job to use new bolts also?

When we used to rebuild Caterpillar engines in the shop, we were ORDERED to use new head bolts. No choice in the matter. Even the tight a$$ management knew it was cheaper to use new head bolts, than to risk the labor cost to do it twice, and you oughta see the co$t of Caterpillar head bolt$...


TIP: apply a light coating of new engine oil to the threads and shaft of the bolt before installing. This assures consistent torque results.
Do NOT use anti-seize for this purpose, as tempting as it is...it will result in uneven torque results. I use anti-seize on just about every other kind of bolt though.

 

[landtank]

Did you vacuum out the holes prior to placing the head on?

I ask because if solvents or oils get into the hole it can hydrolock the bolt and likely the cause for the snap.

I'm hoping that's not the case as it won't likely "spin right out"

sorry about this.

 

[Kennyfzj80]

Did you vacuum out the holes prior to placing the head on?

I ask because if solvents or oils get into the hole it can hydrolock the bolt and likely the cause for the snap.

I'm hoping that's not the case as it won't likely "spin right out"

sorry about this.

Per everyone's advice I tried a pick and screw driver to move the bolt in there. I can see that the bolt protrudes above the head. It wouldn't budge.

I took a 1/4" dive extension with a nut stripper and hammered it in slightly. It grips, but I strips the top of the bolt when I rotate it. It is stuck in there and I'm not going to remove the head again.

This is going to parting out section. I'm not spending more money on this. Not sure if other components are in good order anyway and this rig served it's purpose.

I now highly respect bolts, nuts, and all the little things that keep the engine together. When I do the HG on my main rig I will approach it differently.

95 LC with 300K, blown head gasket going to parting out section now. Thanks guys.

 

[nukegoat]

Per everyone's advice I tried a pick and screw driver to move the bolt in there. I can see that the bolt protrudes above the head. It wouldn't budge.

I took a 1/4" dive extension with a nut stripper and hammered it in slightly. It grips, but I strips the top of the bolt when I rotate it. It is stuck in there and I'm not going to remove the head again.

This is going to parting out section. I'm not spending more money on this. Not sure if other components are in good order anyway and this rig served it's purpose.

I now highly respect bolts, nuts, and all the little things that keep the engine together. When I do the HG on my main rig I will approach it differently.

95 LC with 300K, blown head gasket going to parting out section now. Thanks guys.

I know the feeling, I really do. But honestly, wait a week and then when you have a few hours, just take the head back off and try to get the bolt out. You don't have much to lose with trying if you're ok parting it out anyway. I suspect you'll get some vice grips on there and be able to twist it out. Then if you want to be cheap, buy a non-OEM set of head bolts (or use head studs from ARP). I'm sure the rest of the re-assembly will go fine.

Don't throw in the towel yet. Just cool off and then understand that this sort of stuff happens and it doesn't mean you suck or something.

 

[Bogart]

Deep slow breaths! this is just a bump, not catastrophic. it will only take a few minutes to pull the head, the cams are not on- deep slow breaths