GOT KDSS extended links (1 Viewer)

[LandCruiserPhil]

I’m all about trying to keep suspension in spec on a lifted LC. I love KDSS and all it does on and off road. One part I see that is over looked is the KDSS links. I lengthen the links F&R 1-1/2” using heim joints and love the results. The links put the Swaybars back in place and provide even flat cornering making it super fun off road in rally conditions. The new rear links eliminate the rubber bushings and provide a more solid attachment with the ease of movement with the heim joint. Same type of setup on the front found the factory links binding during flex. No more binding with Heims and they do provide a positive link.

 

[linuxgod]

Nice

What’s your long term experience with heir joint noise and vibration and wear? I’ve heard complaints from some forum members but don’t have any experience myself.

If you don’t have a long travel setup, is there an impact at the full compression side? I’ve wondered this about diff drops too. It seems like you’re now moving the “neutral” suspension point, which seems good for normal driving of a lifted truck where then sway bar (or CVs) are otherwise constantly sitting at a slightly extended position. But when you fully compress will the bars, end links, etc exceed the normal design parameters?

 

[bloc]

But when you fully compress will the bars, end links, etc exceed the normal design parameters?

Thinking through this, at least on the front, we are more likely to gain significant down travel than up. When I had kings in the front I could make the little chicken wing end of the sway bar where it attaches to the KDSS arm contact the front left body mount bolt by flexing the rig to make the passenger side wheel hit full droop. Those shocks allowed ~2" of extra down travel at the tire.. but not much extra up travel.

In theory, if sized correctly these links should help prevent that specific contact.

I share the concerns about noise and wear with heim joints though.

 

[CanadianRockyCruiser]

Does this modification stiffen up the rear end, due to lack of rubber cushion? How's the ride impacted? (might be irrelevant for my LX, but I'm still interested)

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

All Heim Joints are a wear part and yes they will all wear out and need replacing in time.

The first design of the front links were too long and would see contact with the tie rod when cycling through the travel. Shorten them and no more contact. I feel Im getting full travel with both the front and rear with my current setup, more testing will confirm.

You do not need a heim on the rear but I had 80 series rear link to play with.

No new noise with the solid set up and I do feel a new firmness with the new setup.

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/o1/v/t2/f2/m78/AQOExNuUUAzHJoUJGl-yLtS3FHgzxYiTyFMH5zJmdtiKpK3xKzwsbadmjhQoekRYx-CRneHWLk1ehZvnYKm1SyGq44fznSbt5fpqH88.mp4?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=Adlqk-WsaHMFb_9qIjjYQcvyRE22cdBAOEQWB5bV7CrjuG9Qxz98nsiwGWxp3qMzJybYcF-DMfiEO75roaCfpkrO&_nc_sid=5e9851&_nc_ht=instagram.fhdy2-1.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_ohc=2tncI9cZm04Q7kNvwEgGLp8&efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6Inhwdl9wcm9ncmVzc2l2ZS5JTlNUQUdSQU0uU1RPUlkuQzMuNzIwLmRhc2hfYmFzZWxpbmVfMV92MSIsInhwdl9hc3NldF9pZCI6MTA0NTk3MDY4MzcxMzU5OCwidmlfdXNlY2FzZV9pZCI6MTAxMDAsImR1cmF0aW9uX3MiOjYwLCJ1cmxnZW5fc291cmNlIjoid3d3In0%3D&ccb=17-1&vs=e5b870494ec1ff1a&_nc_vs=HBksFQIYUWlnX3hwdl9wbGFjZW1lbnRfcGVybWFuZW50X3YyLzkxNEZCOTE5MzRGQUREMTI2ODc0NkI3NjhGNzJEOEJBX3ZpZGVvX2Rhc2hpbml0Lm1wNBUAAsgBEgAVAhg6cGFzc3Rocm91Z2hfZXZlcnN0b3JlL0dHWU5DUjRlbVdaOXNwOERBR3dyZUVRT09uWkVicGt3QUFBRhUCAsgBEgAoABgAGwKIB3VzZV9vaWwBMRJwcm9ncmVzc2l2ZV9yZWNpcGUBMRUAACb84OLwwNPbAxUCKAJDMywXQE4Cj1wo9cMYEmRhc2hfYmFzZWxpbmVfMV92MREAdegHZeidAQA&_nc_zt=28&oh=00_AfK3dbs_74c6hXrn73g46QwcY-fRfCWm1whVaI6EIcrdRg&oe=68423EDD

 

[nwfl4runner]

I’ve been running heim front swaybar links for 2 years now. Can’t hear them from where I sit.

 

[linuxgod]

All Heim Joints are a wear part and yes they will all wear out and need replacing in time.

Maybe it’s more of a question of how quickly? I did my sway bar end links at ~150k miles. The rubber seemed to be cracking enough that I opted for new ones but I don’t feel any difference in handling. I’m assuming height joints aren’t a 150-200k wear item but 30k vs 120k miles?

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Nice

What’s your long term experience with heir joint noise and vibration and wear? I’ve heard complaints from some forum members but don’t have any experience myself.

If you don’t have a long travel setup, is there an impact at the full compression side? I’ve wondered this about diff drops too. It seems like you’re now moving the “neutral” suspension point, which seems good for normal driving of a lifted truck where then sway bar (or CVs) are otherwise constantly sitting at a slightly extended position. But when you fully compress will the bars, end links, etc exceed the normal design parameters?

I'd never run a heim joint on a daily driver suspension and especially one as heavy as a 200.

A FK (rod end) heim is the best out there and they will start clicking and beating out on daily drivers with 2-3000 miles (many thread out there over various makes and models on this).

Crawlers are swapping regularly and these are mainly used on truggy, jeep crawlers and rock bouncers.

Nothing will replace the longevity and comfort of a sleeved bush or a bonded bush application.

I looked at this a few years back making extended links using OEM link bushes and they failed on two rigs after 1800 and 2700 miles.

Geometry needs to be changed elsewhere... not the links.

Jason
TT

 

[UPR LC]

I'd never run a heim joint on a daily driver suspension and especially one as heavy as a 200.

A FK (rod end) heim is the best out there and they will start clicking and beating out on daily drivers with 2-3000 miles (many thread out there over various makes and models on this).

Crawlers are swapping regularly and these are mainly used on truggy, jeep crawlers and rock bouncers.

Nothing will replace the longevity and comfort of a sleeved bush or a bonded bush application.

I looked at this a few years back making extended links using OEM link bushes and they failed on two rigs after 1800 and 2700 miles.

Geometry needs to be changed elsewhere... not the links.

Jason
TT

Not arguing your personal experience, but my personal experience with heim joints in shocks has been different. Granted not the exact same as link ends.

In general terms I would anticipate the sway bar links would see similar loading to the shocks.

I just rebuilt King 2.5 shocks on my F250 (way heavier than a 200) that has a full time camper and has seen many offroad miles, in addition to winter roads and highway miles. Rod ends were still tight after 5 years and 50,000 miles. I did not replace the rod ends when servicing the shocks, there was no need.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I'd never run a heim joint on a daily driver suspension and especially one as heavy as a 200.

A FK (rod end) heim is the best out there and they will start clicking and beating out on daily drivers with 2-3000 miles (many thread out there over various makes and models on this).

Crawlers are swapping regularly and these are mainly used on truggy, jeep crawlers and rock bouncers.

Nothing will replace the longevity and comfort of a sleeved bush or a bonded bush application.

I looked at this a few years back making extended links using OEM link bushes and they failed on two rigs after 1800 and 2700 miles.

Geometry needs to be changed elsewhere... not the links.

Jason
TT

What failed?

 

[TeCKis300]

Nothing will replace the longevity and comfort of a sleeved bush or a bonded bush application.

So much this. For a street car, nothing beats the unassuming OEM bonded bushings.

 

[Climbingnut]

I looked at this a few years back making extended links using OEM link bushes and they failed on two rigs after 1800 and 2700 miles.

Geometry needs to be changed elsewhere... not the links.

Jason
TT

Jason,

Did you do front, rear or both with the extended links? My rear sway bar (non-KDSS) sits at a crazy angle and I’d think that extending the rear links to put it back to the factory angle would be good. Would it be better to rather extend the mounting brackets and continue with the OEM links?

 

[Boston Mangler]

So much this. For a street car, nothing beats the unassuming OEM bonded bushings.

This

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Just completed ~2000 miles (90% tarmac) of mostly mountainous twisty roads and the mod is legit for my setup. My setup is light active and wants all that a KDSS offers. Prior I had the standard King remote setup and found it way too stiff and uncomfortable on and off the road.
Some research shows this problem has been addressed by many others across the pond. The others use a replacement arm on the front where I used extended heims links both achieving the level KDSS arm in front for maximum travel.
My KDSS arm is now back in stock position.
With the mod and swaybars level again you are maximizing performance that is lost from a lifted vehicle and swaybars at an angle.
The mod gives full articulation front and rear. Currently, I have 5-1/2 inches of shock travel both front and back. Working with King to add more front-up travel and more rear droop, more on that later.
You can set the LC in a corner with confidence and it holds its line
You feel the ability to move anytime with ease in a corner
The new setup makes traveling mountain roads a little more fun and never any steering wheel death grip.
The lower factory A-arm bushing forms an isolator from any mechanical feedback produced from a heim.
Smooth movement and no binding with heims.
Much better feel of control on dirt roads both at speed and in the corners.
X Wife approved mod, she loves the new feel behind the wheel on mountainous roads.

As always YMMV