to plink01:
No offence taken from your post . Have you ever driven a BJ60? It is not nearly as bad as you imagine! Your wrong - it is not stupidly underpowered. I was out driving my BJ60 today in city traffic (like every other day) and it keeps up just fine. It's a little slower off the line but it gets up to speed and goes 30, 50 , 80Km just as well as all the other traffic does all day long. I don't feel like I'm slower than anyone else normally and I'm not the " slowest by a long way" or noticeably behind everyone else ( but I never try drag racing anyone -LOL - I save that for my hot rod Subaru ). Like I said I have a mint 1988 FJ62 so I can compare the two and it's not that dramatic a difference to me in terms of speed. What is dramatic is the fuel consumption difference - and that is what this thread is supposed to be about - saving money. I was intentionally very conservative in my comparison. I currently spend about $200/month running the BJ. Based on my real life experience I would estimate the FJ62 would burn $600, likely more/ month with today's fuel prices. So it is much more than " little bit better fuel economy" when converted to dollars. I wouldn't be caught dead driving my FJ62 with today's fuel prices - what a waste of money that would be!
Trying to judge the 60 based on you 40 is kind of apples to oranges. First of all a bj40 is 3200 pounds and a bj60 is 4200 pounds so the 60 is about 30% more weight. Your 40 will have 4.11 rear end. This is for power and slow speed for rock crawling etc. The 60 will likely have 3.73 - more for a combined world of off and on road. This will make a difference in speed. It's trade off between speed and power. The 3B has a very short torque curve so with the lower gearing things go very slow to get up to speed. In the words, when you start your 40 in 1st you'll be shifting to 2nd very quickly the 3rd and 4th are quick shifts as well. The 60 will run a little longer on each shift which will add up. I don't know if your 40 has overdrive but the 60 likely will which will help with top end speed.
If you think having a 3B in a 60 series is one of the "stupider" things you have heard then you are calling the best, biggest and most successful auto manufacturer on the planet stupid ( very few people call Toyota stupid - much more like brilliant!). Toyota has now sold over 10 million land cruisers. I don't know the production numbers on how many of them were 3B's ( someone on mud might ) but it wouldn't surprise me if two million of them had b series engines in them. They sold BJ60s all over the world.
All automotive engineering is balancing a number of variables to try and find the right mix for the intended purpose - cost, longevity, speed, power, on road, off road etc. All those cars that are zipping by you on the way out of town - as soon as you get off road they can't even dream of keeping up. That's why I like driving my BJ60 - it is a nice balance for my needs of in town daily driving combined with off road daily driving with best in the world 4x4 capabilities while delivering superb fuel economy. I assume the original poster has similar needs - some off roading in the mix - if he's just planning to drive around town then the whole thread is mood - just go buy a mid 90's celica and get speed and economy but no off road. He said he is in Penticton, a realitively small town with lots of easily accessible country and off roading available. It's not like he's gonna be on the mean streets and freeways of Vancouver, mixing it up with the porsches and BMWs.
Regarding various engine comparisons: Toyota achieved its legendary status in the first place by building vehicles that were over built and under powered with superior engineering. How many times have you heard stories about the old Toyotas running forever? That is why. No one ever says they were the fastest. The 3B epitomizes this design philosophy ( along with the 22R and several others ). The 3B is a better ( in terms of fuel economy and longevity) engine than the 2H. It is sleeved ( 2h not) and has oil jetting to the pistons (2h not) which makes it a better candidate for turboing. When turboed it will come close to matching a 2H in power. Getting a 12ht or 1htd will cost some real money. Remember he is trying to save money. He said he has gotten the 3B already so what do you want him to do throw away the 3B and keep running the 3FE? - that pig will break him and make it difficult to save for the expensive engines you are suggesting. Park the FJ62 until he saves enough to buy one? - then have no cruiser in the mean time? The solution seems obvious to me - go with the 3B that he already has and then use some of the money saved from lower fuel costs to turbo it when he can afford it and get it to the power level that you are advocating for.
Regarding wiring issues - you are dead wrong on this point - he could drop the 3B in and run it with no wiring at all! As long as it is warm enough to start without glow plugs and he can manually control the fuel supply - the beauty of a mechanical diesel . He doesn't have to change anything on the FJ wiring just leave it intact. If he wants to "wire it in" all he has to do is supply one hot the glow plugs and control the circuit with a $10 push button switch. Then very simple wiring to control the fuel shutoff solenoid (edic).
His age and complexity of the job: On this point you are creating issues in the thread that haven't been raised by gimme a 60. Maybe he has 4 brothers and a dad that are diesel mechanics, maybe he is well connected in his local cruiser community, maybe he is a brilliant 16 year old mechanic. We don't know and he never raised it as an issue. It seems to me like he knows his way around cruisers and that probably didn't come from nowhere. If he doesn't have these things then he could get into the local cruiser community and get help from others who know more (and there's always mud - the diesel section has many very knowledgeable members).
A couple of years ago a member of our local cruiser community purchased a gorgeous (very expensive) BJ60. Unfortunately, the previous owner had added way to much boast on the turbo and the engine blew (one way to take out a 3B). So his sons, 16 and 17 at the time, with a little help from more experienced members (and again mud) pulled the engine (in about a day) and then rebuild the entire engine and re-installed it. They had little previous mechanics experience but great interest and enthusiasm. These very simple machines, made to be re-built in poor third world conditions where little resources are available.
This is coming from someone who has around 300,000Km experience driving a number of BJ60s.
To gimme a 60 - like I said before I love mud but you have to take the info with a grain of salt. Many very knowledgeable members and lots who know little but just signed
up- easy to do. What I suggest is that you seek out someone in BC as close as you can who has a turboed BJ60 and ask them if you can come and "test drive" it and then see how you like it if you want to be sure. That will be good way to cut thru the BS and make your decision based on real life experience - I don't think you will be disappointed.
This is a massive post so ill reply as best I can!
Nah I havnt driven a BJ60. I've driven BJ42, HJ60, HJ61, HJ75, FZJ80 and VDJ79. Im basing my opinion on the speeds/comfort they drove at.
In Australia we never had a BJ60, we had HJ60, HJ61, FJ60 and FJ62.
I've just got home from a 3 day 4x4 trip in my BJ42. For offroad it is perfectly fine, even for on road it is ok, I don't drive it any faster than 90Kmph, any faster and it's reving it's tits off! I use it purely for 4x4ing and camping. I've driven it a few times to Melbourne and it's absoloutly brutal. It's revving it's head off and stupidly loud over a 4 hour drive.
I know the 60 is geared better for higher speeds and would be a bit quieter, but I still can't get my head around wanting to swap one of these into a perfectly fine 3F.
I love Toyota diesel's, I am a Toyota nuffy and part of that is i love the overbuilt/underpowered engines. The BJ60 wasn't even released in Aus and I think there is a reason for it, it's too underpowered for such a heavy vehicle.
Im going off your stat's with no research, but your saying the 60 is 1000 pound heavier. That's an empty vehicle, that's not including camping gear, bumpers, a winch, extra fuel etc. Once you add all that your pushing the hell out of the 3B!
Maybe he doesn't want to carry all that and just daily drive it, but if he doesn't he might as well get a Celica like your said.
I've spent a bit of time driving in Canada, and everyone is driving well over 100kmph on the freeways! I'd never been to a place that when you ask how long will it take to get to 'x' town, the answer is well how fast are you going to drive?
We stick to the speed limit in Aus otherwise we get fined. I did the same thing in my last Canadian trip and drove the Chevy Suburban to the speed limit and everyone was flying past me!
The 3.4l 4 cylinder BJ60 loaded with camping gear and some 4x4 gear would be like a roadblock going up any mountain pass in a land full of big V8's, and those are the places I'd be looking to take my 60 if I lived there.
Talking about turbo'ing a 3B, there is a s*** load of bad stories how that turned out, of course it's possible and of course if you run low boost it will probably be fine.
But he has already bought a second hand motor, who knows how it was serviced/looked after, it could/probably is tired, could be ****ed.
Without rebuilding the motor, putting a turbo on it is rolling a dice.
The cost of rebuilding the 3B and turbo'ing it for piece of mind is going to put you into a similar price range to a 12ht or 1hdt.
Your talking about saving money but I still can't see how buying an unknown condition 3B, turboing it, adding other materials/adaptors/time is going to save any money. That cost buys you a s*** ton of petrol! With a reliable motor that was installed in a factory, not in a backyard.
I'll take back what I said about being a big project for a 16 year old. Like you said maybe he does know what he is doing or has help. But ****, that would have been a massive project for me, I much rather would have started with axle rebuilds and suspension upgrades at that age compared to doing engine swaps.
In my mind the 3b in a 60 was much more of a Euro car. Not really designed for multi day camping/4x4 trips. I appreciate your opinion and sorry if I didn't reply to everything, it's tricky on the phone! Even after everything you wrote I still think it's a terrible idea.
Buying a factory BJ60 series I'd be ok with, but spending all the time and money to swap one into a perfectly fine vehicle i think is madness and a waste of time and money, for a motor that is going to be slower and is an unknown condition. If the 3F was blown up and you had the 3B laying around it would be a different story.
I think your much better off just getting out and enjoying the 3F, if your obsessed with buying a diesel take your time and save up the money and buy a factory turbo engine. But thats just my opinion and im a nobody!
Do whatever you like but holy s***, the last thing I'd wanna do is waste a few months and money swapping a 3B into a 62'!
But thanks for taking the time to write all that up, I appreciate the argument!
