Full floater.... but better? FF axle flanges.

[lcwizard]

Actually I'm doing the same in two projects. My 60 and a stretch 40. That's why I resurrected the
axle project

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

Full float chromoly shafts

Chromoly Full Float Rear Axle Shafts For Toyota Landcruiser 40, 60, 70, 80*series - New Products - Nitro Gear & Axle

Nitro Gear & Axle Chromoly Full Float Rear Axle Shafts for Toyota LandCruiser & Custom Applications! Now available!
Toyota Trucks & Landcruisers are well known for their strength & reliability all over the world. Out of the box they feature some pretty great drivetrain, but they do have their limits. The factory 30 spline full-floater axle shafts are not built to withstand the added stress of larger tires and heavy offroad use. Nitro Gear & Axle has addressed this by offering a range of Heavy Duty Chromoly Rear Full Float Axles. The only Full Float rearends offered by Toyota in the US were in Dually Pickups, and FZJ80 Land Cruiser, however Full float axles were much more popular worldwide in all models of Landcruisers and are commonly used as an upgrade for US models and otherwise.
Chromoly Full Float Rear Axle Shafts for Toyota LandCruiser & More:
-Made in USA
-High strength Chromoly Material featuring State of the art machining, heat-treating and polishing processes for uniformity and ultimate in strength.
-Wide application range suiting most Toyota pickups, 4runners & Land Cruisers as well as custom applications
AX TFF-FJ40
TOYOTA F/F CHROMOLY 30 SPL AXLE SHAFTS FITS FJ40 REAR, FULL FLOAT ONLY!

AX TFF-FJ60
TOYOTA F/F CHROMOLY 30 SPL AXLE SHAFTS FITS FJ60/HJ60 /62REAR, FULL FLOAT ONLY!

AX TFF-FJ80
TOYOTA F/F CHROMOLY 30 SPL AXLE SHAFTS FITS FZJ80, HDJ80 REAR, FULL FLOAT ONLY!

AX TFF30-L & AX TFF30-R (CTL)
TOYOTA F/F 30 SPL CTL AXLES ELOCKER OK! ENOUGH SPLINE TO WORK FOR 40, 60, 80 SERIES LC ETC
CTL (Cut-to-length). This means the axles come with extra-long splines to accommodate numerous applications. -Long splines also allow use of OEM Cable / Electric Locker. Simply chop to desired length. This makes them easy to stock for the average 4x4 shop, as 1 pair of shafts fits many applications.

 

[ntsqd]

What if I don't want the fatigue life problem or need the strength of 'chro-mo', but need FF shafts in a custom length?

 

[seapotato]

So Cam,

I guess if you went this way and wanted to stay about the same width you could use a 40 housing eh?

feel free to swipe steven's from my yard...

 

[slowandsteady BJ]

So Cam,

I guess if you went this way and wanted to stay about the same width you could use a 40 housing eh?

feel free to swipe steven's from my yard...

Ah yes..... Hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the offer.

Dont know though, the disks and leaf spring perches might want the same real estate.

OCD side note..... If the drive flange pattern is the same between 80 FF and 62FF could take an 80FF (housing), narrow it.... add 60 axle shafts and my expensive built 60 third. Then I'd have a FF with disks and a parking brake.

Decisions, decisions.

Those Nitro axles are a great idea...... "cut to length".

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

shafts

Then buy our shafts
Not sure which "problems" you are referring to, but not with ours.

What if I don't want the fatigue life problem or need the strength of 'chro-mo', but need FF shafts in a custom length?

 

[ntsqd]

Any of the 4XXX series steels has a much higher strength than does any of the 1XXX steels, but with that comes a shorter relative fatigue life. As the heat treat is ramped up to increase the yield strength, the fatigue life is proportionately reduced. An estimate of the fatigue life of the 4XXX series can be calculated if the stresses are known and reasonably repetitive, but for "mild" steels it is not normally done. Kept within their yield strength and assuming no unusual service conditions, fatigue life for mild steel is normally just accepted to be 1 million cycles. As the strength of the steel used increases fatigue life calcs become more important. If the stresses involved are considerably below the Fatigue Strength of the alloy then service life should be fine. Not knowing what those stresses are and what the Fatigue Strength of the alloy is, I'm left with taking the conservative route. Which is to prefer an OE comparable alloy over a shaft made from "chro-Mo".

Reversing torsional stress, as an axle shaft sees, is the worst kind of fatigue. Most guys here are spinning much larger tires than I am. That additional strength is needed and the fatigue life is not as much of a concern. On 33's the additional strength doesn't buy me anything, but if the fatigue life isn't at least equal to OE then I'd rather have an alloy comparable to the OE alloy.

 

[lcwizard]

Any of the 4XXX series steels has a much higher strength than does any of the 1XXX steels, but with that comes a shorter relative fatigue life. As the heat treat is ramped up to increase the yield strength, the fatigue life is proportionately reduced. An estimate of the fatigue life of the 4XXX series can be calculated if the stresses are known and reasonably repetitive, but for "mild" steels it is not normally done. Kept within their yield strength and assuming no unusual service conditions, fatigue life for mild steel is normally just accepted to be 1 million cycles. As the strength of the steel used increases fatigue life calcs become more important. If the stresses involved are considerably below the Fatigue Strength of the alloy then service life should be fine. Not knowing what those stresses are and what the Fatigue Strength of the alloy is, I'm left with taking the conservative route. Which is to prefer an OE comparable alloy over a shaft made from "chro-Mo".

Reversing torsional stress, as an axle shaft sees, is the worst kind of fatigue. Most guys here are spinning much larger tires than I am. That additional strength is needed and the fatigue life is not as much of a concern. On 33's the additional strength doesn't buy me anything, but if the fatigue life isn't at least equal to OE then I'd rather have an alloy comparable to the OE alloy.

All this is true but in many cases the 30 spline 1.3 " axle in the cruiser is just not strong enough to handle what people are running now. I remember before
moly birfields , running in the ARCA competitions with stock front components
we would break 6 birfields in a single event. This was with an SM420 behind a 2F and 38's. Alloy axles may not last 20 years but neither will stock in modified
equipment. Stock axles are well suited for 33's and the 2F with the stock drivetrain. Pop in the LS1, a doubler and low tcase gears and you'll be changing axles like your oil. Moly, 300M ,17-4, etc are all the candle that burns twice as bright. I'm Ok with five good seasons rather than breaking a stock one in two or less

 

[TobyB]

'Any of the 4XXX series steels has a much higher strength than does any of the 1XXX steels, but with that comes a shorter relative fatigue life. As the heat treat is ramped up to increase the yield strength,...'

ah, sure, but 41xx can be annealed back to quite soft, or normalized
to reduce the brittleness... problem is, it's quite sensitive to both
processes, and the trade offs are pretty significant (ductility and stress and notch resistance
versus ultimate tensile strength) So if it's not done right, the axles won't last at all
(and I wonder if that's whats going on with the Poly axles...)

While I'm here, there are lots of steels that have both chromium and molybdenum
alloyed into them- while 'chromoly' usually means 4130, it doesn't have to, at all...

Cool thread- and thanks again, Tor, for that full- floater!!!!

t

 

[cody c]

Then buy our shafts
Not sure which "problems" you are referring to, but not with ours.

Based on how long the splines are on those, I would guess they could be "cut-to-fit" for custom sizing.

Me likey.

I wonder though if they will be long enough for the spindle conversion kits.

 

[baxter650]

Then buy our shafts
I would like to see pricing on these, as well as some dimensional drawings with overall lengths & spline lengths of each axle.

 

[ntsqd]

'Any of the 4XXX series steels has a much higher strength than does any of the 1XXX steels, but with that comes a shorter relative fatigue life. As the heat treat is ramped up to increase the yield strength,...'

ah, sure, but 41xx can be annealed back to quite soft, or normalized
to reduce the brittleness... problem is, it's quite sensitive to both
processes, and the trade offs are pretty significant (ductility and stress and notch resistance
versus ultimate tensile strength) So if it's not done right, the axles won't last at all
(and I wonder if that's whats going on with the Poly axles...)

While I'm here, there are lots of steels that have both chromium and molybdenum
alloyed into them- while 'chromoly' usually means 4130, it doesn't have to, at all...

Cool thread- and thanks again, Tor, for that full- floater!!!!

t

Usually the "Chro-Mo" used for axle shafts and half-shafts is 4340(M) or if truly serious, 300M. I've only recently heard of 17-4 being used in this application. I'd be interested to know what HT is called out for this.

EDIT: Thinking about this further, my relatively low stress level means that the fatigue cycles in the shafts will be lower and thus there could be many more of them. So a high strength axle shaft would only be detrimental to my bank account.

 

[lovetoski]

Then buy our shafts
I would like to see pricing on these, as well as some dimensional drawings with overall lengths & spline lengths of each axle.

I found prices on their website, but no dimensional drawings.

 

[baxter650]

Could not find pricing on the Nitro Gear web site but pricing is on Just Differentials site.
Thanks lovetoski

 

[lcwizard]

Usually the "Chro-Mo" used for axle shafts and half-shafts is 4340(M) or if truly serious, 300M. I've only recently heard of 17-4 being used in this application. I'd be interested to know what HT is called out for this.

EDIT: Thinking about this further, my relatively low stress level means that the fatigue cycles in the shafts will be lower and thus there could be many more of them. So a high strength axle shaft would only be detrimental to my bank account.

I worked with a class 8 team in the late eighties where we ran a 17-4 axle set. I believe we went with the heat treater's recommendations. A 40~45 rockwell .
They held up quite well. he claimed the he could treat the shafts so the surface would maintain a 40+ rockwell while the center would be a softer 30~35 rockwell. They were a double spline with a drive flange. The splines on the drive flange end were interference fit with the very end slightly larger than the area where the flange would locate. The flange would have to be heated while the axle frozen. The fit was quite permanent once pressed together

 

[ntsqd]

I worked with a class 8 team in the late eighties where we ran a 17-4 axle set. I believe we went with the heat treater's recommendations. A 40~45 rockwell .
They held up quite well. he claimed the he could treat the shafts so the surface would maintain a 40+ rockwell while the center would be a softer 30~35 rockwell. They were a double spline with a drive flange. The splines on the drive flange end were interference fit with the very end slightly larger than the area where the flange would locate. The flange would have to be heated while the axle frozen. The fit was quite permanent once pressed together

So somewhere in the 200ksi tensile range for the surface and something less than 170ksi for the core. Interesting.

 

[Fast Eddy]

If the drive flange pattern is the same between 80 FF and 62FF could take an 80FF (housing), narrow it.... add 60 axle shafts and my expensive built 60 third. Then I'd have a FF with disks and a parking brake.

Lots of bracket cutting-off, but otherwise not rocket science. The flanges are the same. Mine has an e-locker in it.

Here you can see the Bobby Long drive plate. It is not an interference fit though it does tap on nice and snug. I haven't bothered to install the extra dowels yet with a stock 2f and 35" tires. I'll eventually get him to make me the long side and put the extra dowels on both sides.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

the only issue that I'm seen with the swap ( been thinking in that for a while ) it's the wheel bolt pathern .. coz I don't know any 14B FF 6 bolts ..

The hubs can be turned down and made into a 6 lug pattern. as was done here. https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/221512-freds40-builds-60-a-30.html#post4609064

plus the 14bolt third member is a really tight squeeze in the cruiser housing. I'm
guessing you'd be shaving the ring gear

I'm talking swap the entire axle, not just the carrier. Im loving the hell out of mine so far. just yesterday I pulled a truck with enough force that I am sure it would have broken a stocker, even bounced it a little and didnt even care!

 

[lcwizard]

The hubs can be turned down and made into a 6 lug pattern. as was done here. https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/221512-freds40-builds-60-a-30.html#post4609064



I'm talking swap the entire axle, not just the carrier. Im loving the hell out of mine so far. just yesterday I pulled a truck with enough force that I am sure it would have broken a stocker, even bounced it a little and didnt even care!

yeah, I was really joking, the 14 bolt is a great axle. You'll want to run bigger tires ...but you can with the 10.5 ring gear . Then you'll need the Dana 60 front to match strength. Dynatrac makes 6 lug hubs for that to match also.
Anything over 35" tires probably should be running a combo like that but it might
cost more than a weeks allowance for most married men and a years beer money for the single guys. It's kinda my job to find ways to improve on what people have to work with without breaking the bank.
If you really want a cool axle, at one time, Steve Rumore was working on a titanium version of the top loader duece axle after his "sniper" buggy cleaned up at the rock crawl events. As I understand it was a US military sponsored
endeavor.
Unfortunately I think he now uses 60's front and rear in his built to sell units

 

[CruisinFJ60]

A D60 front isnt really required up front if you have some 30 spline longs and maybe some 6 shooters and if you wheel hard enough the trunion bearing eliminators. If you wheel harder than that then its time for big boy axles. I swapped in my 14B rear for a little bit of nothing and am still running my cruiser front while I finish building my D60 and untill it is ready or I bomb the cruiser front... again...

I wanted to stay as much toyota as I could as long as I could but I seem to have found that limit on the rear axles. It isnt worth it to me to do the yota FF swap to not gain much extra in strength. I now have big bad ass monster sized rear axle shafts that make the cruiser ones look like the D35 spare rear axle shafts I have for that lowly broken jeeper. LOL!