I believe rwhats is using j springs. You'd gain some up travel at the expense of down travel on Js. And bumpstopping would be required only for tire rub issues and not shock travel issues.
Fox Shox 2.0 post your valving and weight.
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I believe rwhats is using j springs. You'd gain some up travel at the expense of down travel on Js. And bumpstopping would be required only for tire rub issues and not shock travel issues.
I'd append to this that no bump drops should be required if using the stem/stem and stem/eye 10" travel shocks. Other lengths or adapters may require bump modifications.
OK - finally had time to get the rears installed.
I one up'ed you Brian - I only swapped out one OME and went for a tour. Got a late start and wasn't going to get them both on that night. There was 6" of pow outside when I opened the garage door, so took her for a rip. No comparison when turning (fishtailing) or braking. Solid. OME = scary.
I think the rear valving will suit the 863's when loaded (need to finish getting that aux tank installed). It's crisp when unloaded - so anyone with less weight - be sure to ask Neil at DSMS about lower valving (IMHO).
I've had 4000 km's worth of roadtrip's on the front now. I was concerned about stories of other shock brands seals leaking in winter temps. I gave them a 5 hr beating in -25 with no problems.
I'll mention the resi fit on the rear is really close to the caliper and sway bar. Clearances with the small 285's seem to be no problem, yet. 315's, plan on fabbing some brackets..... Good thing they're only 2.0's!
I'll probably look into flutter stacks for the front - down the road. I think this may be the way to go for all-round valving. Maybe Coax will chime in.....
Yep, brackets to get the resi's out of the wheel well is worth doing at some point
My flutter stacks are working better than the previous standard valving I had, but I still think it could work better. Ideally I'd like a larger range, where its less compression on the small bumps (thinner large diameter shims) and more compression on the bigger bumps (thicker smaller diametershims) but not sure what the "spread/range" can be on flutter stacks. Maybe even just using 1 flutter shim instead of the two that are on there.
When it gets warmer I'll have to consider sending back to downsouth or buying some of the tools to mess with them myself.
The biggest PITA is really the mounting/mounting from the vehicle. They are a SOB to put on/take off.
If you have access to nitrogen to charge the shocks it's not bad.
I did my rears on the ground without jacking up the truck. Undo bolts. Discharge nitrogen. Collapse damper and remove.
The rear lower bushes are a bit of a pain tho. Pry bar to remove, and longer bolt to install, followed by the proper bolt once the shock is half on the bushing. If installing a charged shock, you can quickly jack up one side of the frame to make it line up.
I charged mine after installation. I also have a 6" height extension for my floor jack.
Great to see some more activity in this thread! I still think these Fox 2.0 RR's are the best value around IF we can figure out good ball park valving for folks at different weights to start with. My Foxes are currently off at the moment, which leads me to a brief segue:
1. The TJM XGS nitro shocks are really not bad at all, especially considering they cost half as much.
2. Installing sway bar drop brackets makes a huge difference in ride comfort! I had (stupidly) thought this would be a good place to save a little coin when first lifting the truck. Not so. The ride is way less harsh with them on.
A few comments on the info y'all have shared... Just trying to summarize this all in my mind and offer any suggestions where I can:
Personally thankful for 86tuning's report here as we are both relatively stock weight. "More data is almost always a good thing"
A man after my own heart. So anecdotal reports (bikeman, coax, kmcoop7, thomo) seem to favor compression in the 35-45 range (with flutter stacks in some cases) for light to medium loaded rigs. Heavy rigs seem to like something around 65. Rebound from 75-90 has appeared satisfactory for rigs of all weights.
Coax,
Thinking about your desire for greater damping "range"... AFAIK you're already using the smallest thickness (.008) low speed shims available. My only thought on softening up slow speed more would be moving the flutter spacer from the 3rd position to the 2nd. You mention having two "flutter shims" but I think you only have one. Maybe we are both trying to say the same thing different ways here as far as moving it? I have also heard of people using thicker flutter shims to increase flutter but that also increases risk of cracking a disk. As for stiffening up high speed damping, substituting some of those .01's later in the stack for .012's or even a .012 and a .015 (if it needs a lot more) seems reasonable.
So moving from this (your current front AFAIK):
1.6x.008
1.425x.008
.8x.01
1.35x.01
1.1x.01
.95x.01
.8x.02
To something like this:
1.6x.008
.8x.01
1.425x.008
1.35x.01
1.1x.012
.95x.012
.8x.02
Just an idea! I will likely be trying something in this range on my own truck soon. Keep the info coming!
1. The TJM XGS nitro shocks are really not bad at all, especially considering they cost half as much.
2. Installing sway bar drop brackets makes a huge difference in ride comfort! I had (stupidly) thought this would be a good place to save a little coin when first lifting the truck. Not so. The ride is way less harsh with them on.
A few comments on the info y'all have shared... Just trying to summarize this all in my mind and offer any suggestions where I can:
Personally thankful for 86tuning's report here as we are both relatively stock weight. "More data is almost always a good thing"
A man after my own heart. So anecdotal reports (bikeman, coax, kmcoop7, thomo) seem to favor compression in the 35-45 range (with flutter stacks in some cases) for light to medium loaded rigs. Heavy rigs seem to like something around 65. Rebound from 75-90 has appeared satisfactory for rigs of all weights.Coax,
Thinking about your desire for greater damping "range"... AFAIK you're already using the smallest thickness (.008) low speed shims available. My only thought on softening up slow speed more would be moving the flutter spacer from the 3rd position to the 2nd. You mention having two "flutter shims" but I think you only have one. Maybe we are both trying to say the same thing different ways here as far as moving it? I have also heard of people using thicker flutter shims to increase flutter but that also increases risk of cracking a disk. As for stiffening up high speed damping, substituting some of those .01's later in the stack for .012's or even a .012 and a .015 (if it needs a lot more) seems reasonable.
So moving from this (your current front AFAIK):
1.6x.008
1.425x.008
.8x.01
1.35x.01
1.1x.01
.95x.01
.8x.02
To something like this:
1.6x.008
.8x.01
1.425x.008
1.35x.01
1.1x.012
.95x.012
.8x.02
Just an idea! I will likely be trying something in this range on my own truck soon. Keep the info coming!
alia176
SILVER Star
Matt,
Excellent description on how the stacks work. I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with. I have Bilstein 7100s but don't quite understand the shim system. This is good education!
Excellent description on how the stacks work. I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with. I have Bilstein 7100s but don't quite understand the shim system. This is good education!
Yep, I think we are on the same page. I would move the spacer one shim closer to the piston, just like you indicated above.
I could also look at using a .95 x .01 for the spacer while moving it closer to the piston one "space".
Just an idea! I will likely be trying something in this range on my own truck soon. Keep the info coming!
Cool, definitely let me know what you try out!
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Alia176, very glad that my rambling proved helpful to you! If you haven't already, check out the shock valving articles on Crawlpedia: http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm The diagrams there helped me a lot.
Coax, exactly. I'm very interested to see how relocating the flutter shim changes things. Hurry up and do it already haha
Here are some other valving reports I'm just trying to consolidate from other threads:
Napir - 35/80 with 850J/860 and no armor. "It's a pretty good ride."
NorCal Cruiser - 65/80 front and 70/90 rear on OME heavies. Sig says "some heavy stuff bolted on" so take that as you will. His report (edited for brevity): "So far I'm loving my new suspension and shocks. The valving Neil recommended seems to work well (but I don't have experience with other shocks to compare it to). My new suspension is much smoother than the old and there is much less body roll on the highway. I have only been on a few easy trails- just some ruts, rocks, and bumps but the ride is much smoother than it used to be. It's smooth enough that my daughter, who was only 6 months old at the time, fell asleep on the rough 3 mile road out of Leavitt Lake. I have also done some test runs in my local Home Depot parking lot where they have some nasty speed bumps. If I move over so I just hit the bump on one side of the vehicle I can take it at 15 mph and the vehicle stays smooth. If I hit the bump full on at 15 mph you can feel the hit but it's not too bad- there's the jolt right when the tires hit the bump but there's no bouncing around afterwards- you smooth right back out."
I have also PMed Cruisercouple for more info on his (now sold) truck.
Now I just need to get my shocks boxed up and sent off to Downsouth for revalve so I can add another data point to the discussion. Thinking something in the 40/80 range with a flutter.
Coax, exactly. I'm very interested to see how relocating the flutter shim changes things. Hurry up and do it already haha
Here are some other valving reports I'm just trying to consolidate from other threads:
Napir - 35/80 with 850J/860 and no armor. "It's a pretty good ride."
NorCal Cruiser - 65/80 front and 70/90 rear on OME heavies. Sig says "some heavy stuff bolted on" so take that as you will. His report (edited for brevity): "So far I'm loving my new suspension and shocks. The valving Neil recommended seems to work well (but I don't have experience with other shocks to compare it to). My new suspension is much smoother than the old and there is much less body roll on the highway. I have only been on a few easy trails- just some ruts, rocks, and bumps but the ride is much smoother than it used to be. It's smooth enough that my daughter, who was only 6 months old at the time, fell asleep on the rough 3 mile road out of Leavitt Lake. I have also done some test runs in my local Home Depot parking lot where they have some nasty speed bumps. If I move over so I just hit the bump on one side of the vehicle I can take it at 15 mph and the vehicle stays smooth. If I hit the bump full on at 15 mph you can feel the hit but it's not too bad- there's the jolt right when the tires hit the bump but there's no bouncing around afterwards- you smooth right back out."
I have also PMed Cruisercouple for more info on his (now sold) truck.
Now I just need to get my shocks boxed up and sent off to Downsouth for revalve so I can add another data point to the discussion. Thinking something in the 40/80 range with a flutter.
alia176
SILVER Star
Thanks for the link Matt, very educational. Guess it's time for another round of revalving the shocks, D'oh. I got tons of shims to play with, which can be good and bad!
Ali
Ali
If anyone is in the socal area we may be able to hook up and DYNO your set up.
It is great to be able to quantify what kind of change you are making.
It is great to be able to quantify what kind of change you are making.
Are you guys messing with the free bleed on the piston. This is going to influence your very low speed a lot, possibly allowing you to get the shims more effective for high speed
Thats awsome. Shock dyno or suspension dyno?
It seems all are running only a single bleed. Going by their numbers. Im going to try something new with this new set of fox Ive ordered for a customer.
Shock dyno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-FqR7AS3yg
I can run a shock way harder than it will see in the field. I could burn the stickers of a shock in a couple minutes
I don't think the bleed holes on a fox are threaded. Drilling a tapping a couple holes for small set srews makes for easier tuning. All our pistons have between 3 and 5 #3-48 holes tapped. Our tune charts indicate how many are open or closed.
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My fox pistons did not have threaded holes for bleed.
I'm more interested in a supple shock, if I could mimic the tuning of a set of Koni sports I'd be ecstatic. Right now with the single bleed, on highway, it feels a bit wobbly if that's a term. Really low-speed damping feels a bit too light. Yet high speed compression feels a bit harsh.
Good morning,
Not to jump in and HiJack the thread, this is Sonny form Downsouth Motorsports and we just became and vendor on here (No I am not going to try and sell you something right now) ha,ha...
But some of the valving combos are interesting to read and some of the questions because I am normally the one who works on the shocks and plays with the valving. One thing I would like to note is that just as it was stated earlier that we will re-valve the shock as many times as you would like us to (Customer pays the shipping to us and back to them) until you feel comfortable.
Valving is subjective and that is what happened early on and we were hearing so many different responses from different valvings we were sending out.Light compression and slow rebound and then they needed more compression and faster rebound and so on and so on.
Then you throw in the added weight and different spring rates and compression adjusters and then we had trouble getting accurate info from some of the customers and that threw a wrench in the whole program.
Fox pistons are cast in there standard off the shelf 2.0" shocks and they normally have a "2" Bleed hole piston in them. Some of the stem top stuff comes with "1" bleed hole in the piston depending on who you order the shocks from. The stem top 10" shocks are normally a universal stem top shock and that is why there is an inconstancy in the piston.
Valving is infinite and we are here to help you with any questions you may have whether you choose to purchase shocks from us or not.
Now just a side note on valving:
2 bleed versus 1 bleed:
1 Bleed open will increase the low speed for tighter feel so to say mainly because you are forcing the fluid to travel through the valve stack instead of allowing it to free bleed under a hard hit.
Here is a valving I would like to try for the front mainly:
Compression:
1.60" x .008
1.425" x .008
.950 x .010
1.425" x .012
1.350" x .012
1.10" x .015
1.10" x .010
.950" x .015
.800" x .020
Rebound:
#80
Single Bleed hole open piston
DU style wear band for the piston
Non compression adjuster
Standard weight vehicle (No extra weight)
Daily street driven rig.
Let me know if anyone ( one or two people) are interested and I will send you the
valve stacks at no charge and cover the shipping in the USA.
If you message me it will go to Micah's e-mail...so you may not get a response for a day or so, but I will do my best to keep an eye on the thread if anyone responds.
Thank you,
Sonny
Not to jump in and HiJack the thread, this is Sonny form Downsouth Motorsports and we just became and vendor on here (No I am not going to try and sell you something right now) ha,ha...
But some of the valving combos are interesting to read and some of the questions because I am normally the one who works on the shocks and plays with the valving. One thing I would like to note is that just as it was stated earlier that we will re-valve the shock as many times as you would like us to (Customer pays the shipping to us and back to them) until you feel comfortable.
Valving is subjective and that is what happened early on and we were hearing so many different responses from different valvings we were sending out.Light compression and slow rebound and then they needed more compression and faster rebound and so on and so on.
Then you throw in the added weight and different spring rates and compression adjusters and then we had trouble getting accurate info from some of the customers and that threw a wrench in the whole program.
Fox pistons are cast in there standard off the shelf 2.0" shocks and they normally have a "2" Bleed hole piston in them. Some of the stem top stuff comes with "1" bleed hole in the piston depending on who you order the shocks from. The stem top 10" shocks are normally a universal stem top shock and that is why there is an inconstancy in the piston.
Valving is infinite and we are here to help you with any questions you may have whether you choose to purchase shocks from us or not.
Now just a side note on valving:
2 bleed versus 1 bleed:
1 Bleed open will increase the low speed for tighter feel so to say mainly because you are forcing the fluid to travel through the valve stack instead of allowing it to free bleed under a hard hit.
Here is a valving I would like to try for the front mainly:
Compression:
1.60" x .008
1.425" x .008
.950 x .010
1.425" x .012
1.350" x .012
1.10" x .015
1.10" x .010
.950" x .015
.800" x .020
Rebound:
#80
Single Bleed hole open piston
DU style wear band for the piston
Non compression adjuster
Standard weight vehicle (No extra weight)
Daily street driven rig.
Let me know if anyone ( one or two people) are interested and I will send you the
valve stacks at no charge and cover the shipping in the USA.
If you message me it will go to Micah's e-mail...so you may not get a response for a day or so, but I will do my best to keep an eye on the thread if anyone responds.
Thank you,
Sonny
Welcome to Mud, Sonny. :flipoff 2:
To further hijack.
Hated to hear Marco left. Great guy, one of the few that talked me out of purchases on the FJC (though still took a lot of money).
Can't speak highly enough about DSMs customer service.
To further hijack.
Hated to hear Marco left. Great guy, one of the few that talked me out of purchases on the FJC (though still took a lot of money).
Can't speak highly enough about DSMs customer service.
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Thanks....
He is back home in 4wpw in Chula Vista...
That is where he came from and he enjoys it there and he is back to managing...We are still good friends and always will be..
Keep us posted if you need anything..
Always around like a doughnut to help...
He is back home in 4wpw in Chula Vista...
That is where he came from and he enjoys it there and he is back to managing...We are still good friends and always will be..
Keep us posted if you need anything..
Always around like a doughnut to help...
PM'd with address. I'd be interested in trying the flutter stack up front.
Quick update on my setup:
front 65/80-150psi 1500kg
rear 35/90-150psi 1000kg
I just adjusted my front nitrogen pressure to 150psi in the installed position. They were at about 240psi when I checked them with my gauge (installed, not on the bench). Much more plush over the small stuff. Nitrogen pressure makes a big difference in how the shocks feel over small bumps. I had the rears at 100psi for testing purposes, and liked how it felt. Back up at 150psi they're noticeably(sp?) firmer. I will revalve to 30/90 rear, or try a flutter shim to go even softer.
Quick update on my setup:
front 65/80-150psi 1500kg
rear 35/90-150psi 1000kg
I just adjusted my front nitrogen pressure to 150psi in the installed position. They were at about 240psi when I checked them with my gauge (installed, not on the bench). Much more plush over the small stuff. Nitrogen pressure makes a big difference in how the shocks feel over small bumps. I had the rears at 100psi for testing purposes, and liked how it felt. Back up at 150psi they're noticeably(sp?) firmer. I will revalve to 30/90 rear, or try a flutter shim to go even softer.
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