Fox Shox 2.0 post your valving and weight.
- Thread starter Rwhat
- Start date
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Correct, it refers to the speed of the piston. As I understand it, slow speeds would be something <10" per second, such as cornering, etc. Mid speeds would be whoops, rollers, etc. And high speeds would come from washboard, ruts, potholes, etc and could be 100+" per second.
Hijack - I was referring tire profile, not pressure. I've gone from having definite plans to re-valve, to she rides great as-is. That's comparing 285's at the same highway pressure on the same washboard road - same valving. Just by changing tires and wheel offset. Not exactly sure what the correlation is, but I'm stoked on the 255's. Gained 1" extra clearance as well.
They definitely look.... different.
Hijack offBack to valving...
Picked up a few things so I can start tearing into the valving.
- Small nitrogen tank from General Air ~$110
- Extra shims from down south. ~$40
- 1 quart shock oil from down south. ~$20??
- Pin Tool from REI for bearing cap. ~$17
- Regulator from General Air ~$110
- Blue 242 for the retaining nut on the shock shaft. ~$6
- Custom hose with a 1/8" Female NPT and 1/4" sae taper. 500psi working pressure. ~$9
FWIW I have a loss-less style air chuck for my shocks. Mostly its just a longer way around the block 
A couple quick blasts with a regular tire type inflation chuck works just as well...quicker...simpler...equally effective.
A couple quick blasts with a regular tire type inflation chuck works just as well...quicker...simpler...equally effective.
FWIW I have a loss-less style air chuck for my shocks. Mostly its just a longer way around the block
A couple quick blasts with a regular tire type inflation chuck works just as well...quicker...simpler...equally effective.
Doh, oh well. Should be here in a few days. I think I went that route as all my air chucks are harbor freight and leak just as much air as they put in
If I get too annoyed with the no-loss contraption I'll buy a nice air chuck. 
Ok, so got the new shims in. Here's the latest setup compared to the last setup:
Front
New Comp
1.6 x .010
1.425 x .010
1.35 x .010
1.1 x .010
.95 x .008
.8 x .020
Old Comp
1.6 x .008
1.425 x .008
.8 x .020
1.35 x .010
1.1 x .015
1.1 x .015
.95 x .015
.8 x .020
New Reb
Standard 75
Old Reb
Replaced the .012 x 1.425 with a .010
Rear
New Comp
1.6 x .010
1.425 x .008
1.425 x .008
1.35 x .010
1.1 x .010
.95 x .008
.8 x .020
Old Comp
1.6 x .008
1.425 x .008
.8 x .015
1.425 x .008
1.425 x .008
1.35 x .012
1.1 x .015
1.1 x .015
.95 x .015
New Reb
Standard 80
Old Reb
Replaced the 1.425 x .012 with a .010 and the 1.35 x .012 with a .010
Haven't had a chance to charge w/ nitrogen yet so no ride test. Will have to wait till next weekend
A few other thoughts and whatnot:
Front
New Comp
1.6 x .010
1.425 x .010
1.35 x .010
1.1 x .010
.95 x .008
.8 x .020
Old Comp
1.6 x .008
1.425 x .008
.8 x .020
1.35 x .010
1.1 x .015
1.1 x .015
.95 x .015
.8 x .020
New Reb
Standard 75
Old Reb
Replaced the .012 x 1.425 with a .010
Rear
New Comp
1.6 x .010
1.425 x .008
1.425 x .008
1.35 x .010
1.1 x .010
.95 x .008
.8 x .020
Old Comp
1.6 x .008
1.425 x .008
.8 x .015
1.425 x .008
1.425 x .008
1.35 x .012
1.1 x .015
1.1 x .015
.95 x .015
New Reb
Standard 80
Old Reb
Replaced the 1.425 x .012 with a .010 and the 1.35 x .012 with a .010
Haven't had a chance to charge w/ nitrogen yet so no ride test. Will have to wait till next weekend
A few other thoughts and whatnot:
- It's hard to know exactly where the floating piston is in the reservoir and to then judge how much oil needs to be in the shock. I got pretty close but for the final re-valve I'll pull the cap off each remote res and measure out the fluid per Fox's instructions to make sure everything is where it needs to be
- The .8 shim on the compression is really just some sort of flow spacer. It's got a large backing plate up against it so it doesn't flex at all. So really in a standard valve stack only 5 out of the 6 shims do any work.
Coax, based on your observations I agree that perhaps we've been attacking washboard comfort the completely wrong way. IE decreasing low speed valving when we should have been decreasing high. Very excited to see if your new stack confirms this! What made you choose to layer the two 1.425s on rear compression? I wonder how layering two thinner shims of the same diameter changes things compared to having a single thicker shim in the same place?
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You will need an IFP tool. The set depth of the deviding piston after being bled propperly is 6" on an 8" res. 8" on an 11" res.
I went with the two shims for a few reasons. To provide a bit more cornering stability in the rear as the rear end 1.) flexes more easily than the front and 2.) would typically have more weight to control. Doubling up thinner shims I think makes the damping "smoother" compared to one thicker shim. It will also hopefully help with the mid range damping as well. Now just gotta get out and test it this weekend.
....
Not sure what you mean, care to elaborate? I usually get a little nervous when "Big Boys" wink at me haha
I went with the two shims for a few reasons. To provide a bit more cornering stability in the rear as the rear end 1.) flexes more easily than the front and 2.) would typically have more weight to control. Doubling up thinner shims I think makes the damping "smoother" compared to one thicker shim. It will also hopefully help with the mid range damping as well. Now just gotta get out and test it this weekend.
Thanks for the explanation Coax, makes sense. I hope it works out the way you intended!
Awesome thread going here. If time allows, I'll do some research and see if I can come up with anything for you. Most of my intermediate at best (I rely on the extensive setting bank info and experts) valving experience is w/ Ohlins... but some of it can be transferred over to the Fox. My best results usually come with 2 or 3 stage flutter stacks...
Any info you have would be much appreciated!! After doing a bunch of research I can't find a whole lot on flutter stacks that is based off science rather than just some various posts saying 'its good for this or that'.
My interpretation is that flutter stacks will separate out the engagement of the different ranges, requiring slightly more force/velocity before the next "set" of shims is engaged. Most of my work is for washboard, which means high velocity, which means the whole stack is being used anyway, and a flutter stack would just increase the overall stiffness of the stack. (Because now certain shims will flex/resist more. Anyway, the learning continues!
So got the shocks put back on with the new stacks mentioned above. It was a vast improvement! The low speed "wallow" and head rocking side to side is pretty much gone and the cruiser is much more stable in corners, which is great.
Didn't get a whole lot of testing in the mid range, but seems to be OK. Not good, not bad.
Wheeling over a rough road, even at street tire pressure, was much more comfortable.
Washboard was better but still not that good. I suspect this is a bit of still having a bit too much compression damping and and a bit too much rebound. I still think its compression because even high speed potholes and whatnot on pavement were pretty harsh still.
Also noticed a bit of rear wheel "hop" where I believe there was too much rebound when rolling off the back side of a bump.
I ordered a few more shims. I am goign to replace the following in the compression stack:
1.1 x .008
1.35x.008
And possibly up the very first shim in the compression, as it will loose some of its stiffness by going with thinner shims below it.
1.6 x .012
So getting there, just a slow process, enhanced by the fact that I really don't know what I'm doing
More to follow. I think it all just comes down to a balance as these Fox's are just a standard velocity sensitive shock. They are not position sensitive (would need internal or external bypass) nor are they frequency sensitive (one big hit vs. many small hits in a row like washboard).
Didn't get a whole lot of testing in the mid range, but seems to be OK. Not good, not bad.
Wheeling over a rough road, even at street tire pressure, was much more comfortable.
Washboard was better but still not that good. I suspect this is a bit of still having a bit too much compression damping and and a bit too much rebound. I still think its compression because even high speed potholes and whatnot on pavement were pretty harsh still.
Also noticed a bit of rear wheel "hop" where I believe there was too much rebound when rolling off the back side of a bump.
I ordered a few more shims. I am goign to replace the following in the compression stack:
1.1 x .008
1.35x.008
And possibly up the very first shim in the compression, as it will loose some of its stiffness by going with thinner shims below it.
1.6 x .012
So getting there, just a slow process, enhanced by the fact that I really don't know what I'm doing
More to follow. I think it all just comes down to a balance as these Fox's are just a standard velocity sensitive shock. They are not position sensitive (would need internal or external bypass) nor are they frequency sensitive (one big hit vs. many small hits in a row like washboard).
If you decide to try the flutter again... The .8 x .020 shim you are dividing the the stages with is too thick... it's allowing too much flow and that's why you have the wallow. I would try an .008 or thinner even. It also sounds like the second stage of the stack is too heavy, go thinner on those shims, but add a couple smaller diameter units to keep the same overall height of the stack.
Indeed, the flutter shim was too thick and the 2 shims between it and the piston were too thin. I may try a flutter stack later but for all my search-fu I can't find any technical explanation of why a flutter stack would help on washboard roads (IE the high speed, low travel bumps). If anyone has any insight or links they would be much appreciated!
So on my quest for more plush compression damping, combined with firmer slow piston speed damping (for handling curves) I decided to dismantle a Koni damper from the front of an ae86 corolla.
The Koni is a much smaller twin tube low pressure shock. There is a single shim with a large wave washer and a small spacer and the backing plate washer.
Not shown is the foot valve on the inner tube of the twin-tube shock. The foot valve also acts as a compression valve because the shock shaft on a macpherson strut is VERY large compared to the piston and tube size. I won't have a chance to tear down the foot valve for pictures, going out for dinner tonite...
The larger shim stack in the photo is a 65 compression stack from my fox 2.0 damper. Sorry, no pic of the piston because they're in my 80.
The Koni is a much smaller twin tube low pressure shock. There is a single shim with a large wave washer and a small spacer and the backing plate washer.
Not shown is the foot valve on the inner tube of the twin-tube shock. The foot valve also acts as a compression valve because the shock shaft on a macpherson strut is VERY large compared to the piston and tube size. I won't have a chance to tear down the foot valve for pictures, going out for dinner tonite...
The larger shim stack in the photo is a 65 compression stack from my fox 2.0 damper. Sorry, no pic of the piston because they're in my 80.
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Hey Guys -
Now I've got more miles on these (10k), thought I'd give a report on durability. Finished Kokopelli, White Rim and a few trails in Moab on our way South. Shocks held up great loaded at 6700# on Fins 'n Things. Valving was great on washboard with tires at 24#.
Got into La Jolla and noticed a squeal coming from the rear disc and found oil all over the tire.
Stopped by DownSouth in El Cajon to see if it was an easy fix or if I should replace the one shock. Mica and the crew figured it was a rock that scored the piston - destroying the seal. The irony being the rock must have been on the Freeway......
They were able to fix the shaft that day (!) at no cost, allowing us to continue on to Baja. We didn't even call ahead of time. Big thanks to the Crew at DSMS.
Now have boots zipped on the 2 rears and, so far, no problems after a week wheeling in Baja. Very impressed considering the flogging they've taken over the last month.
Happy trails.
Now I've got more miles on these (10k), thought I'd give a report on durability. Finished Kokopelli, White Rim and a few trails in Moab on our way South. Shocks held up great loaded at 6700# on Fins 'n Things. Valving was great on washboard with tires at 24#.
Got into La Jolla and noticed a squeal coming from the rear disc and found oil all over the tire.
Stopped by DownSouth in El Cajon to see if it was an easy fix or if I should replace the one shock. Mica and the crew figured it was a rock that scored the piston - destroying the seal. The irony being the rock must have been on the Freeway......
They were able to fix the shaft that day (!) at no cost, allowing us to continue on to Baja. We didn't even call ahead of time. Big thanks to the Crew at DSMS.
Now have boots zipped on the 2 rears and, so far, no problems after a week wheeling in Baja. Very impressed considering the flogging they've taken over the last month.
Happy trails.
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It does seem the combination of the shaft material and the location of the rear shocks continually getting blasted by rocks isn't the best for longevity. On one of my last trips, nearly all on road, i left my shock boots off the rears as I am still in the process of remove/revalve/reinstall. Noticed the last time I pulled off the shocks the rear shafts were fairly pitted from just that one trip. I usually run boots on all 4 corners and won't make the mistake of leaving them off again.
Glad you got yours all fixed up!
Updated valving:
Front Comp:
1.6 x .010
1.425 x .010
.8 x .080
1.350 x .008
1.1 x .008
.95x.008
.8 x .020
Front Reb:
1.425 x .012
1.350 x .012
1.1 x .012
.95x.015
.8 x .015
Rear Comp:
1.6 x .012
(2) 1.425 x .008
1.350 x .008
1.1 x .008
.95x.008
.8 x .020
Rear Reb:
1.425 x .012
1.350 x .012
1.1 x .015
.95x.015
.8 x .015
I had a few iterations before I got to the numbers posted above. Rebound is pretty close to being good now. Rear compression is still too stiff, so I'll probably remove one of the doubled up shims or try a flutter shim. Just changed the front today so not sure if the addition of a flutter shim will help with the washboard/potholes and other high shaft speed hits. The front was still too stiff on the compression.
I have held off on going to .008 shims on the first two, just to try and keep the body roll and similar motion under control, but I may go that way at some point. It was suggested not to use .008 shims with a flutter stack due to increased stress and motion possibly causing those shims to fail.
Anyway, its a whole lot better than where it was at when I started this. Probably have been into each shock about 4 times. Nitrogen bottle still has some left in it, so if the weather holds I may try for another revalve. If not it will stay this way for the winter
If anyone is thinking of going down this path and messing with valving themselves, if I were to do it again, I'd try to stick better to the mantra of keeping the valving " as soft as possible, as stiff as necessary". Meaning I'd start with a compression of all .008's and stiffen it up from there as needed. FWIW