Found spacers I didn't know I had (1 Viewer)

[NikP]

I bought my used 2008 LC early summer and today I was doing the normal oil change and tire rotation only to find these.

I know lots of people run spacers but I was a bit nervous to not find many threads holding them on. They got removed... It also solved my tire rub problem when at full-turn.

I'm not sure it makes much of a difference in the overall look. They were 1.25".

 

[04UZJ100]

That thread engagement is sketch.

 

[BVE]

No need for the spacers with the Rebounds anyways, I ditched mine when installing the same wheels. Can only imagine the rubbing with that offset since it was close to +0 with them on.

 

[linuxgod]

Wow that's super sketchy. IIRC to have full holding torque they need to have 6 or 7 threads of engagement. My eyes think no matter how well those nuts were torqued they were essentially like torquing your lug nuts to ~50ft/lbs,

(mcgard says 5.5 turns, but I think the engineering minimum is 1.5x the bolt diameter - Installation/Removal - https://shop.mcgard.com/installation-removal)

 

[bloc]

Good job removing those.

 

[04UZJ100]

Wow that's super sketchy. IIRC to have full holding torque they need to have 6 or 7 threads of engagement. My eyes think no matter how well those nuts were torqued they were essentially like torquing your lug nuts to ~50ft/lbs,

(mcgard says 5.5 turns, but I think the engineering minimum is 1.5x the bolt diameter - Installation/Removal - https://shop.mcgard.com/installation-removal)

API says at least 1 thread extended thru the nut (full engagement + 1 thread exposed) is sufficient for hydrocarbon bolted joints. I’d recommend something similar in this application.

 

[Ali FJ80]

I would check your stock wheel studs to make sure they were not cut shorter at some point. The visible one looks like the end has cut marks and they should stick out more than that. If the previous owner had run thinner spacers with certain stock wheels at some point he may have had to cut the studs down for the wheel to sit flush. If they have in fact been cut would make sure your new lugs are getting enough turns on them before bottoming out or pop in new studs.

 

[gaijin]

I would check your stock wheel studs to make sure they were not cut shorter at some point. The visible one looks like the end has cut marks and they should stick out more than that. If the previous owner had run thinner spacers with certain stock wheels at some point he may have had to cut the studs down for the wheel to sit flush. If they have in fact been cut would make sure your new lugs are getting enough turns on them before bottoming out or pop in new studs.

THIS^^^^^^

@NikP , looks like your original wheel studs were cut short by a previous owner - this is definitely a dangerous situation.

You should make sure you have adequate engagement on your lug nuts with the original wheel studs. By looks, you may have to replace those original wheel studs.

Did I mention this could be a very dangerous situation?

HTH

 

[TheGrrrrr]

Replacing the studs is easy and cheap. Do it now, not later.

 

[NikP]

@NikP , looks like your original wheel studs were cut short by a previous owner - this is definitely a dangerous situation.

Yep, I need to take a look... I was think about this last night and wondered if the thread engagement would be the same on my regular wheels, which is really a problem.

I'll pull things apart and take a look. Thanks for all the safety eyes on this...


This may all be f*&'d up since the previous owner also put some drilled and slotted rotors on thinking it would help with braking. My guess it this rotor is much thicker than stock (and I'm not convinced it helps with stopping in the first place).

 

[BVE]

Yep, I need to take a look... I was think about this last night and wondered if the thread engagement would be the same on my regular wheels, which is really a problem.

I'll pull things apart and take a look. Thanks for all the safety eyes on this...


This may all be f*&'d up since the previous owner also put some drilled and slotted rotors on thinking it would help with braking. My guess it this rotor is much thicker than stock (and I'm not convinced it helps with stopping in the first place).

The good thing is OEM rotors are pretty cheap and might be worth swapping if you do start ripping things apart to replace the studs.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

As point of reference, I ran 1.25" spacers with the 2013 OEM and 2016+ OEM wheels and PowerStop Z36 aftermarket brake upgrades with the factory studs. Switched to Rock Warriors and a .75" spacer with same Z36 brakes and still using the factory studs. There are tons of options for mods that would never require altering the studs. I would default back to factory studs and not entertain any configuration that deviates from them.

 

[bloc]

Original studs look rolled to me, not cut.

Personally I’d check how long that lug nut is and calculate how much thread engagement you had. If it met the 1.5x bolt diameter standard the studs are perfectly fine.

 

[NikP]

Personally I’d check how long that lug nut is and calculate how much thread engagement you had. If it met the 1.5x bolt diameter standard the studs are perfectly fine.

I definitely don't have 1.5x the bolt diameter of engagement. I quickly pulled on wheel nut and I have 6 turns of the nut before it's snug. It looks like the stock studs are not cut as the end has a dimple vs. a straight cut off finish. I'm guessing the space is being taken up by these aftermarket rotors. I'll probably dig into it this weekend to investigate.


Does someone have an old rotor lying around to get a measurement of its thickness where the studs go through it?

 

[bloc]

I definitely don't have 1.5x the bolt diameter of engagement. I quickly pulled on wheel nut and I have 6 turns of the nut before it's snug. It looks like the stock studs are not cut as the end has a dimple vs. a straight cut off finish. I'm guessing the space is being taken up by these aftermarket rotors. I'll probably dig into it this weekend to investigate.


Does someone have an old rotor lying around to get a measurement of its thickness where the studs go through it?

I have a new rotor in my garage, will get a measurement later today.

6 turns at 1.5mm per turn is only 9mm, for what I believe is a 14mm stud. So yeah, not enough engagement. Given that I'd strongly consider replacing them.

 

[Ali FJ80]

I definitely don't have 1.5x the bolt diameter of engagement. I quickly pulled on wheel nut and I have 6 turns of the nut before it's snug. It looks like the stock studs are not cut as the end has a dimple vs. a straight cut off finish. I'm guessing the space is being taken up by these aftermarket rotors. I'll probably dig into it this weekend to investigate.


Does someone have an old rotor lying around to get a measurement of its thickness where the studs go through it?

New rear rotor 6.25mm

 

[NikP]

@Ali FJ80 I appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[NikP]

Come to find out, this issue has come up before not related to spacers or rotors.

Aftermarket wheels with tapered/conical lug nuts - too little thread engagement?

To those with aftermarket wheels using conical lug nuts, how many turns does it take before the lug nut stops when turning by hand? I only have 5 turns in the front and around 7 and a half turns in the rear. Doesn't seem to be enough thread engagement in the front. It also doesn't look like an...

forum.ih8mud.com

I may be able to solve this with lug nuts.

West Coast Wheel® 14mm x 1.5 Lug Nuts from Brandsport Auto Parts (#W1014SEB)

www.brandsport.com

 

[bloc]

Come to find out, this issue has come up before not related to spacers or rotors.

Aftermarket wheels with tapered/conical lug nuts - too little thread engagement?

To those with aftermarket wheels using conical lug nuts, how many turns does it take before the lug nut stops when turning by hand? I only have 5 turns in the front and around 7 and a half turns in the rear. Doesn't seem to be enough thread engagement in the front. It also doesn't look like an...

forum.ih8mud.com

I may be able to solve this with lug nuts.

West Coast Wheel® 14mm x 1.5 Lug Nuts from Brandsport Auto Parts (#W1014SEB)

www.brandsport.com

What are you trying to solve? Now that the spacers are removed do you still need more thread engagement?

The reason people were recommending replacing the studs was in case they were damaged by so little engagement. What this might look like is mildly damaged threads on the portion that was seeing engagement.

I did also miss @linuxgod stating mcgard recommends 5.5 turns. They aren’t in the business of letting wheels fall off of cars. if a business that should know says 6 turns was adequate, you’re probably fine to leave everything in place.

One thing we weren’t considering in applying engineering standards to these is per the book they are only getting tightened to metric grade 8.8 numbers, similar to SAE grade 5. Quite low. Meaning there wasn’t much force to damage threads in the first place.

All of that said, if your wheels mean you aren’t getting much engagement and want to get more, yes those lugs are a good option.

 

[NikP]

What are you trying to solve? Now that the spacers are removed do you still need more thread engagement?

I'm no engineer but when I see this type of engagement on a wheel stud, it's a bit scary. I don't want to over-react but good practice suggests a nut with half the threads not engaged can be a liability. My local Discount Tire would not remount these wheels if they saw this engagement with standard conical wheel nuts.

You can see here with a standard conical wheel nut, I have about the same thread engagement at the wheel as when the spacer was installed.

I'd feel different if the world of nuts and bolts suggested a safe practice is to have 1/2 a nut's worth of threads not engaged.