flipped springs, SOA no need to cut and turn?
- Thread starter slickrock
- Start date
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No, 
IMO Cut and turn is needed for any SOA.. the extra wheelbase helps with the drive line angle a small bit, but the correct way to do it would be to over correct the caster, point up the pinion up and out of the rocks..
IMO Cut and turn is needed for any SOA.. the extra wheelbase helps with the drive line angle a small bit, but the correct way to do it would be to over correct the caster, point up the pinion up and out of the rocks..
nope. you will probley still have stock caster. that what i had for a while and didnt work out. I think stock is 1 and wasnt to go with 35. And if you cut and turn you get a better dl angle when pointing it up a bit.
No,
IMO Cut and turn is needed for any SOA.. the extra wheelbase helps with the drive line angle a small bit, but the correct way to do it would be to over correct the caster, point up the pinion up and out of the rocks..
Just do it and don't think twice about it.
- Thread starter
- #5
That's what I thought, until I was reading a few threads that said no cut and turn needed. Can't believe everything you read. Thanks for the responses.
Yep, just get that pinion out of the rocks and be done with it. If for no other reason than saving your pinion. Obviously there are other benefits as well, but for offroad, that is the biggest.
Jeremy
Jeremy
it would be wise to do if you where shackle reveresed but if you are not you can get away with it
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
You have 2 separate things going on, both of which you want right. Do your spring over pointing the diff at the t-case, and then rotate your knuckles back enough to get 3-4 degrees of caster. That gets both diff angle and caster right.
Since caster is the most important for good handling, you could set it up without rotating the knuckles, but your u-joint angle at the pinion flange will be sketchy. With a long enough front shaft, you can get away with it-thats why easing the angle with a spring flip can help, but the fact still remains that the right way to do it is to cut and turn.
Since caster is the most important for good handling, you could set it up without rotating the knuckles, but your u-joint angle at the pinion flange will be sketchy. With a long enough front shaft, you can get away with it-thats why easing the angle with a spring flip can help, but the fact still remains that the right way to do it is to cut and turn.
AFAIK, Mark W. flips the front springs with no reversal or C&T (factory caster), and lengthens the front shaft. I assume it works fine as he's done tons of them using this method. Be sure to flip and re-drill the center leaf (or whichever with military wrap; it's been a while) to keep the military wrap at the shackle end.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I may have mis-read Mark's post then. Maybe he might chime in. I've heard arguments for both sides on this subject, though.
I SOA'ed mine with the intention of using his method, but I sold it before I got around to the spring flip.
i did my soa on my 70 back in 73 with a spring flip and no c and t and im still driving it however there is not much rock crawling here just mud and tree stumps .i have done them both ways for customers and everyone was happy so i geuss its a matter of personal preference and how you use the truck .the truck is now a 4 speed and has been to california and back and trail rides constantly.plus plows snow and tows my car hauler . however i would probably listen to the majority here good luck
My whole thing is, if you have the time, just do it.. there are no Negative effects of it.. just takes some time.. and not that much.. Tear down the Axle (you probably need to do it anyway), Grind the Slots, Heat them up and turn them.. Weld them up.. Should not take more than a few hours (Aside from the time rebuilding the axle).. you should already have all the tools for the soa anyway! Stock Steering stops are junk, so you should replace those anyway, and you will need new shock & Brake line Tabs
my 68 is reversed soa no cut and turn and handles beautifully. is it the correct way to do it? i can't say, but i've wheeled it, done 90 on the highway (ask john from coyote cruisers about the day we raced home from moab with trailers in tow) and i've flat towed and it handled fine in all situations. steers just fine also and it's no trailer queen (i don't think it's been on a trailer since i hauled the carcass home).
i wouldn't do the redrill on the spring perch. i've seen and heard of more cruiser springs broken becuase the spring was weakened by redrilling than the spring eye busting. any other rig might be another story, but cruiser springs are tough.
i will have to cut and turn on my pig, just because the the driveshaft is too short and the angles are too sharp.
i wouldn't do the redrill on the spring perch. i've seen and heard of more cruiser springs broken becuase the spring was weakened by redrilling than the spring eye busting. any other rig might be another story, but cruiser springs are tough.
i will have to cut and turn on my pig, just because the the driveshaft is too short and the angles are too sharp.
- Thread starter
- #15
Speaking on longer drive shafts leading to the opinion that C&T isn't needed. . . wouldn't flipping the front springs lengthen the driveline enough to correct for pinion angle? My fronts are flipped and I needed to add 4 inches (can't remember exactly) so the drive line is longer now. For the camp that says C&T isn’t needed with longer DL, this should fulfill that requirement. . . correct?
Isotel brings up a good point about time. Since my wife keeps believing I am an adult, no matter how much I want to ignore the fact, my cruiser is low on her priorities of how I can spend my time . So I am stuck in the should I or shouldn't I C&T category. It all seems to be opinion with pinion angle being the only concrete factor for this mod. With both camps experienced in both set-ups, I think I will look at my pinion angle after welding on some perches on the top of my axle and doing a garage SOA mock-up. If it looks good, I am good with a little time out of my life, if bad, I will need to put the rig back to SUA until I have time for the C&T. I just can’t justify stripping my axle down and shipping it off for a C&T because the wife again has her priorities on how I can spend “our” money.
The deciding factor is time. Surf n Turf is a month away . . .
Isotel brings up a good point about time. Since my wife keeps believing I am an adult, no matter how much I want to ignore the fact, my cruiser is low on her priorities of how I can spend my time . So I am stuck in the should I or shouldn't I C&T category. It all seems to be opinion with pinion angle being the only concrete factor for this mod. With both camps experienced in both set-ups, I think I will look at my pinion angle after welding on some perches on the top of my axle and doing a garage SOA mock-up. If it looks good, I am good with a little time out of my life, if bad, I will need to put the rig back to SUA until I have time for the C&T. I just can’t justify stripping my axle down and shipping it off for a C&T because the wife again has her priorities on how I can spend “our” money.
The deciding factor is time. Surf n Turf is a month away . . .
You could always order an axle ready to go from Proffitts Cruisers. Then you just transfer everything over and roll. That's what I would do if time really is the factor and you were going to send it to someone else to do anyways.
Jeremy
Jeremy
does anybody have a picture of the SOA w/ Man fre Shackle Reversal(pointing back) and flipped springs?
What I want to do is the front spring over w/ my shackle reversal that I have from MAn a fre. They claim is something to 2.5 in.
what I want to see is how hi it looks.
Does anybody have this set up?
is it safe? od should I go back to stock shackle hanger?
What I want to do is the front spring over w/ my shackle reversal that I have from MAn a fre. They claim is something to 2.5 in.
what I want to see is how hi it looks.
Does anybody have this set up?
is it safe? od should I go back to stock shackle hanger?
Man-a-fre's shackle reversal is designed for a spring under. Anything can be made to work, it's just that with that shackle reversal you will end up with an
1" or so more lift than a stock hanger. That kit positions the axle in a stock position with the springs flipped so you won't be gaining the advantage of a bit longer drive shaft. You can drill your spring perches to shift the axle forward
about an 1" ~ 1 1/2". I would still recommend checking caster, either with caster gages available from places like summit, or taking the axle down to the
bare knuckle ball,Making sure the frame is level slide a tube through the knuckle bearing races and take a caster measurement with a digital level
( sears has a good one real cheap ).
If you are within 4 degrees of 1~2 degrees positive use caster shims. Anything more and you should cut and turn.
1" or so more lift than a stock hanger. That kit positions the axle in a stock position with the springs flipped so you won't be gaining the advantage of a bit longer drive shaft. You can drill your spring perches to shift the axle forward
about an 1" ~ 1 1/2". I would still recommend checking caster, either with caster gages available from places like summit, or taking the axle down to the
bare knuckle ball,Making sure the frame is level slide a tube through the knuckle bearing races and take a caster measurement with a digital level
( sears has a good one real cheap ).
If you are within 4 degrees of 1~2 degrees positive use caster shims. Anything more and you should cut and turn.
Thanks for the info. I forgot to mentioned that I run a chevy 350 and was running a 4spd toy combo. I am in the process of droping a SM465/205 combo. The front driveshaft is not in a stock location and as it is, it's longer than stock. I am going to end up with a very short rear driveshaft and a front longer than stock.
