Flexy Coils and Mathematical Theory for Review

[landtank]

Planned. Adjusting steering stops at same time to see if I can limit, too.

adjusting the stops is detailed in the FSM. It's important to get them right as they will influence how the machine calculates caster. That is not actual caster but how it calculates caster.

Adjusting them so the turning range is more than factory will yield caster results higher than actual and if turning less then the results will be lower than actual.

So while getting caster readings is a great idea, you need to be dead on with the stops to get anything meaningful to work with.

 

[Delancy]

Having a truck that can crawl well and drive the street well is tough.

I too have struggled with this, but in the end you will have to make a compromise as to which you want or need the most crawler or streetablility.


Like you, I did not listen and wasted countless hours in search of something that was not really going to happen.

"Sometimes you are actually restricted by what you know. It narrows your vision and doesn't challenge you to find different ways."

-Wikid (Puulboy, here)

The majority here on Mud are still being spoon fed the OME medicinal dose with a spoon full of sugar about "it's as good as it gets" or "it's an 80 not a trophy truck", and it's lapped up and nothing ever changes.

I know exactly what you're saying. I'm hard headed and don't mind stepping out of the box.

I won't throw it's current on road form under the bus yet. I'll drive 75mph all day, no worries, and that's with shocks that still suffer from torque induced body roll.

Will reserve the total success or fail until after the Radflo's are on, but it'll be by my standard and because I'm used to its characteristics. Not a safe vehicle for someone unfamiliar and I'm fine with that.

I still intend on a few unconventional modifications, from a Mud standpoint, to improve, but will operate in the cloak of darkness until its a 110% success so I can eat crow in private.

As for height, I'm probably wrong and I can accept that. Since there's little choice anyway, going to drop the rear an inch, put on the Radflo's, cut what needs to be cut, then try to correct any ill attributes.

No, it's not an Ultra 4 racer (Insert Heep here, for that matter, since they embrace new products, not condemn) never thought it was, but there are developments outside the 80 forum that could be beneficial, from a lot of aspects.

Who knows until it's attempted?

I'm not even the right guy to try, considering I'm challenged, but will still give it a whirl.

 

[Delancy]

adjusting the stops is detailed in the FSM. It's important to get them right as they will influence how the machine calculates caster. That is not actual caster but how it calculates caster.

Adjusting them so the turning range is more than factory will yield caster results higher than actual and if turning less then the results will be lower than actual.

So while getting caster readings is a great idea, you need to be dead on with the stops to get anything meaningful to work with.

Going to take to dealer and cover, I guess. They can get the long travel front on the FJC happy, and they had this one happy before, but will be sure to tell the tech how to do his job and read the FSM.

They like it when I pull that.

There's more going on than just caster that's related to the stops or steering travel, but I can't say exactly why. My uneducated observation is the steering is in arc, with the DS being more disproportionate than the PS, but speculation.

Will study up to advise the advisor. Haha.

 

[ChaseTruck]

Two observations from another board where I used to hang out:

1. I remember seeing several prominent builds where the guy built his truck into oblivion in the quest to build the ultimate rig. That was doomed from the beginning by starting from a fullsize platform - in the end, the rigs never ever saw a trail, and inevitably ended up being sold as a project, aka basket case of parts. By that time, there's been a fair amount of resources 'invested' in that adventure - and I've seen the rationale that some folks like building trucks rather than wheeling them pop up several times as defense of the whole mess...
Personally, I think 'seat time' in a truck is a critical component in the whole endeavour, and should be given at least as much consideration as choice of hardware.

2. I've seen plenty of nice Blazers (yeah, well, that's where I come from...) being pressed into harder and harder rockcrawling duties.
They all end up being put into places where they don't fit, are too heavy to climb, and what not. Next, these trucks are being narrowed, boatsided, cut back, bobbed, no doors, no windshield (and let me tell you, a lot of the ruh-roh attitude goes away pretty quickly when it rains...) - and they're still heavy with a high center of gravity. But now these vehicles are basically undriveable on the road - all in the quest to build the most capable truck. These vehicles can do a few things very well - and are pretty much useless for anything else. By that time, a fair amount of resources have been 'invested' in that adventure - you get the picture.

Now I wouldn't dare to suggest that an 80-series Landcruiser might suffer the same fate - of course not . But it seems to me that there's a point where compromise solutions would be advantageous.

 

[scottryana]

I say screw it and send it to my buddies at JD Fab and turn it into a baja 80!

 

[MJ80]

So much over thought.

I have 4" flexy coils with big ass King shocks, they have major travel, my coils stay captive. Thats it dude, buy some 4" coils and get on with it.

 

[Delancy]

So much over thought.

I have 4" flexy coils with big ass King shocks, they have major travel, my coils stay captive. Thats it dude, buy some 4" coils and get on with it.

You didn't read the over thought, huh?

I bought 4" coils.







It netted 5" front/6" rear.

What coil free lengths can you share, sir that'll guarantee a 4" lift?

Amazing. I realize I'm wordy, but to post up BS like that without having read a single friggin' word is damn near infuriating.

 

[Delancy]

@ ChaseTruck

At least all other parts of the truck are new, OE. I hear you.

I hear all of you, trust me.

Purpose wasn't to overbuild, but maximize, and a big fail.

@scottryana

Cantilever suspension on a 60?

Now where taking. Let me find the link calculator.....hahaha.

 

[akarilo]

I don't understand all the writing above. Slinky coils stay captive with long shocks, but at ride height, those dead coils are just spacers.

Take those fancy slinky springs, cut some winds of the top and be good. Grind the top flat as best you can so it seats proper. If the spring comes unseated, then capture the bottom so it can't fall out of the seat. The top cone will ensure it goes back where it should be.

Chris, has anybody else ever given you this exact same advice? I'm not an idiot after all.

 

[Delancy]

I'm not an idiot after all.

It's obvious who the idiot is. Guess every village needs one.

Not going to argue with Christo, and you'd just have to see this, but in cutting off the top rung as compressed, it'd only affect the overall coil height by half a coils thickness, since its literally half a coil, yet when uncompressed, that distance grows substantially.

Take a 1/2" off the peter. It's only a 1/2" until it's important then it compounds into a greater distance, as expanded.

Best analogy I've got.

Watched a wall cloud and funnel pass over house earlier, later dropping in BA, and now I can't sleep.

 

[TheBigBoy]

adjusting the stops is detailed in the FSM. It's important to get them right as they will influence how the machine calculates caster. That is not actual caster but how it calculates caster.

Adjusting them so the turning range is more than factory will yield caster results higher than actual and if turning less then the results will be lower than actual.

So while getting caster readings is a great idea, you need to be dead on with the stops to get anything meaningful to work with.

Every caster check I've had has been on a digital caster machine (lasers). The steering stop don't mean a thing. As you turn the wheel the digital display tells you when to stop (before the steering stops are reached).

 

[landtank]

Every caster check I've had has been on a digital caster machine (lasers). The steering stop don't mean a thing. As you turn the wheel the digital display tells you when to stop (before the steering stops are reached).

it would depend on what machine is being using.

 

[Delancy]

Where's the thread delete option?

One last question before disappearing into obscurity, because I'm not understanding how the coil hitting the tower can occur.

I'm quoting, again, to not mince any words.

Quote from first email with coil producer-

"On a side note, you are going to change coils on the rear, I would suggest 15mm coil spacers and go 15mm lower in the free height. This is to reduce noises caused by the coil hitting the coil tower."

-End quote

Quote from second email with coil producer-

"The coil spacers are to stop the 3rd row of coil hitting the coil mount on the rear, otherwise it will grind away at the coil and make noises.
Be sure to drop the rear a further 15mm to suit the coil spacer."

-End quote

And last exchange, after my reply that I'd never experienced and coil grinding, quote-

"I have always known about the problem that you are NOT (**) experiencing but I haven’t always had the solution."

[(**) I stressed the NOT in bold for those that skim and don't read.]

What?

How?

Why?

Where?

When?

If I can ever get a reply from Superior regarding the difference between the Superflex Arms at varying heights, then an order can be placed and on down the road we go.

Until I hear from SE, don't know if it'll be 4", 4.5", 5", be it replacing all four or just the two rear.

Coil producer has offered a deal on coils and have a buddy who can reasonably ship, so a win-win and y'all had your fun for the day.

Now, off to delete my even longer rear sway bar rough draft.

 

[Delancy]

it would depend on what machine is being using.

Would a large Toyota dealer have correct one?

Jim Norton Toyota Tulsa

 

[TheBigBoy]

Who's telling you all this stuff about grinding? Shane will have no problems with swapping coils (a year is pushing it a bit though). Only the shipping would be the problem.

 

[Delancy]

Who's telling you all this stuff about grinding? Shane will have no problems with swapping coils (a year is pushing it a bit though). Only the shipping would be the problem.

Shane is the one quoted, Mark. He's the one that said to lower the rears by the 15mm and he'll send spacers to prevent grinding.

I don't understand what he's describing.

It's cost prohibitive to swap, so buying new.

Do you know of any difference between the arms or bushings on Superiors arms between 4" and 5" specified lift?

I can't seem to get a reply.

Edited: To further explain cost prohibitive.

It'd cost me almost $300 per pair of coils to ship to Oz.

I can have a new pair shipped here for nearly the same total expense.

 

[sleeoffroad]

adjusting the stops is detailed in the FSM. It's important to get them right as they will influence how the machine calculates caster. That is not actual caster but how it calculates caster.

Adjusting them so the turning range is more than factory will yield caster results higher than actual and if turning less then the results will be lower than actual.

So while getting caster readings is a great idea, you need to be dead on with the stops to get anything meaningful to work with.

What machine is the shop using where this is an issue? Most machines that had any electronics would tell you how far to turn on both sides. Only time this would be an issue is when the stops are that far out that you could not reach the steering angle required, which I don't even know if that is possible.

I believe the Hunter machine we use requires 10 degrees of steering.

 

[sleeoffroad]

I think the grinding they are referring to is the spring making a noise when it goes from unloaded to loaded on the first coils. The first coils are very tight on the cone that seats the spring. Since the flexy coils touch each other when loaded, it sits against the cone. So they will make a clanking noise when the load up. I think that is why they want to move down by cutting more and using a rubber spacer.

On the truck where we tested the flexy coils this was the case.

 

[LT]

 

[TheBigBoy]

I have no idea what anyones talking about . Re: grinding/clanking. Never had any problems at all on any of the flexi coils. You would have to be hitting some extremely large pot holes for the first few winds to open up. Even then the shock dampening would slow/stop it. I give up.