- Thread starter
- #141
FJ62 bad water leak in cabin - continued - wit's end
- Thread starter TheElegantFox
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #142
Well, I finally found the leak source this weekend, behind the drivers side kick panel.
The inner seam close to the cowl drain pipe was missing a sealant bead entirely, so much so that you could barely see daylight getting in. My guess is this is normally not a failure point, but given the collision evidence by the dented in cowl side, I think it likely was never repaired correctly in that repair effort. I had to remove one the of fuse panels, disconnect the pull handles, and peel back the NVH padding for the firewall to get to the spot. It's hard to exactly line up where this internal seam is for the outside, but my best guess is the bottom of the drain curve for the (now missing) hose pipe.
![Image[2208].jpeg](https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/image-2208-jpeg.3323489/ "Image[2208].jpeg")
I did a duct tape job to test a leak fix for that location and it made a big difference, but didn't stop it entirely, plus leaving tape there would hold moisture to the body. It was nearly impossible to get the caulk gun to the exact spot, but I barely managed to get enough material there to smear into the crack with my finger. I used a silicone RTV sealant this time and we'll see if it passes the leak test after it cures.
The "right" way to do this repair would be a dash out, frame off, re-seam of the entire drivers side cowl area from both the cabin and engine side while also repairing the cowl drain dent. I just can't do that right now so this fix will have to work until then.
For good measure, I patched the popped bottom seam where the cowl meets the door sill with metal HVAC tape.
![Image[2206].jpeg](https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/image-2206-jpeg.3323483/ "Image[2206].jpeg")
This repair has been hell and I really want to ring the PO's neck, but at least now the 3-year saga seems to be drawing to a close. To recap what all has been attempted in this repair for future thread finders.
1. New windshield and gasket, double sealed to prevent water leaks (did not fix)
2. 3 attempts to reseal external side cowl drain (did not fix)
3. Cleaned cowl from all debris (did not fix)
4. Metal tape over popped lower seam (did not fix)
5. Tested roof rails and door seals (were not the leak source)
6. Cleaned debris out of lower drivers rear door (unrelated issue, but needed addressing. door was holding water after heavy rain)
The fix: inner cabin seam, estimated to be around the lower drain hose curve fitment.
This could've been done sooner with a more focused approach from myself, but I've learned something new each time I've tried to fix this. Main lesson being, never underestimate how badly a cheap bastard previous owner will cut corners on a repair. I really think this is the fault of a bum drivers side offset collision repair. I think they slapped a new fender and door on it and called it a day.
If anyone has a a picture of the interior without the dash and wiring harness and/or an external photo sans-fender and drain pipe, I'd love to see it so I can ID the exact location visually.
The inner seam close to the cowl drain pipe was missing a sealant bead entirely, so much so that you could barely see daylight getting in. My guess is this is normally not a failure point, but given the collision evidence by the dented in cowl side, I think it likely was never repaired correctly in that repair effort. I had to remove one the of fuse panels, disconnect the pull handles, and peel back the NVH padding for the firewall to get to the spot. It's hard to exactly line up where this internal seam is for the outside, but my best guess is the bottom of the drain curve for the (now missing) hose pipe.
I did a duct tape job to test a leak fix for that location and it made a big difference, but didn't stop it entirely, plus leaving tape there would hold moisture to the body. It was nearly impossible to get the caulk gun to the exact spot, but I barely managed to get enough material there to smear into the crack with my finger. I used a silicone RTV sealant this time and we'll see if it passes the leak test after it cures.
The "right" way to do this repair would be a dash out, frame off, re-seam of the entire drivers side cowl area from both the cabin and engine side while also repairing the cowl drain dent. I just can't do that right now so this fix will have to work until then.
For good measure, I patched the popped bottom seam where the cowl meets the door sill with metal HVAC tape.
This repair has been hell and I really want to ring the PO's neck, but at least now the 3-year saga seems to be drawing to a close. To recap what all has been attempted in this repair for future thread finders.
1. New windshield and gasket, double sealed to prevent water leaks (did not fix)
2. 3 attempts to reseal external side cowl drain (did not fix)
3. Cleaned cowl from all debris (did not fix)
4. Metal tape over popped lower seam (did not fix)
5. Tested roof rails and door seals (were not the leak source)
6. Cleaned debris out of lower drivers rear door (unrelated issue, but needed addressing. door was holding water after heavy rain)
The fix: inner cabin seam, estimated to be around the lower drain hose curve fitment.
This could've been done sooner with a more focused approach from myself, but I've learned something new each time I've tried to fix this. Main lesson being, never underestimate how badly a cheap bastard previous owner will cut corners on a repair. I really think this is the fault of a bum drivers side offset collision repair. I think they slapped a new fender and door on it and called it a day.
If anyone has a a picture of the interior without the dash and wiring harness and/or an external photo sans-fender and drain pipe, I'd love to see it so I can ID the exact location visually.
Attachments
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I can't see well by the pictures; was the leak caused by the collision itself, or by improper reinstallation of the fender?
I'll need to pull both front fenders (the sooner the better) on my 62 for rust repair and repaint, and I hadn't even considered having to reseal the body around them on reinstallation.
I'll need to pull both front fenders (the sooner the better) on my 62 for rust repair and repaint, and I hadn't even considered having to reseal the body around them on reinstallation.
- Thread starter
- #144
I guess I did have a fenderless image in this thread after all. It's been ages and I forgot. If you ignore the arrows in this picture, it shows the crushed in section where the firewall joins the cabin.
Looking a this again knowing what I do now, I think the leak is the underside of that outward crease, close to where the left most arrow is pointing to.
I don't think you can mess this up when reinstalling a fender to answer your question, but rather the issue here is a fender was likely replaced over bodywork that still needed to be done.
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- Thread starter
- #146
That would be super helpful, thanks!
micruz60
Unleaded Regular
Bump - doing disassembly on the 62, stay tuned for discovery !
Aaand here we are. I had plenty of H2O intrusion here.
It became a block of ice at the inner side of the A-pillar, flooding the footwell, I removed the drain plug underneath the carpet and now that we are in summer it is time to reseal. Backstory is that I bought this FJ62 to be a parts rig, now I’m thinking it may be a good runner/grocerygetter/backup to Red60.
Some other pics:
Prior owner had bedliner done to cover up rust
Ah well, I inspected deeply before buying from usedcardealership, made negotiations easy when I pointed out many reasons that it wasn’t a 5500$ deal.
Have you been getting water in the back seat / B-pillar area still?
Aaand here we are. I had plenty of H2O intrusion here.
It became a block of ice at the inner side of the A-pillar, flooding the footwell, I removed the drain plug underneath the carpet and now that we are in summer it is time to reseal. Backstory is that I bought this FJ62 to be a parts rig, now I’m thinking it may be a good runner/grocerygetter/backup to Red60.
Some other pics:
Prior owner had bedliner done to cover up rust
Ah well, I inspected deeply before buying from usedcardealership, made negotiations easy when I pointed out many reasons that it wasn’t a 5500$ deal.
Have you been getting water in the back seat / B-pillar area still?
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If I don't act fast my front left fender is going to look like your quarter panelBump - doing disassembly on the 62, stay tuned for discovery !
View attachment 3359604
Aaand here we are. I had plenty of H2O intrusion here.
It became a block of ice at the inner side of the A-pillar, flooding the footwell, I removed the drain plug underneath the carpet and now that we are in summer it is time to reseal. Backstory is that I bought this FJ62 to be a parts rig, now I’m thinking it may be a good runner/grocerygetter/backup to Red60.
Some other pics:
View attachment 3359616
View attachment 3359617
View attachment 3359618
Prior owner had bedliner done to cover up rust
Ah well, I inspected deeply before buying from usedcardealership, made negotiations easy when I pointed out many reasons that it wasn’t a 5500$ deal.
Have you been getting water in the back seat / B-pillar area still?
- Thread starter
- #149
I got some twice this week, but that was the first since the fix. I think it may have been from a door/ajar seal or something similar. A different insertion point it seems.Bump - doing disassembly on the 62, stay tuned for discovery !
View attachment 3359604
Aaand here we are. I had plenty of H2O intrusion here.
It became a block of ice at the inner side of the A-pillar, flooding the footwell, I removed the drain plug underneath the carpet and now that we are in summer it is time to reseal. Backstory is that I bought this FJ62 to be a parts rig, now I’m thinking it may be a good runner/grocerygetter/backup to Red60.
Some other pics:
View attachment 3359616
View attachment 3359617
View attachment 3359618
Prior owner had bedliner done to cover up rust
Ah well, I inspected deeply before buying from usedcardealership, made negotiations easy when I pointed out many reasons that it wasn’t a 5500$ deal.
Have you been getting water in the back seat / B-pillar area still?
I did a leakdown test this weekend and it didn’t leak up at the cowl thankfully.
micruz60
Unleaded Regular
I wonder if the roof gutter at the B-pillar is compromised?
- Thread starter
- #151
Check the door drains, I had mine fill with debris over time and some no longer drained quickly, leading to water retention in the lower door.
micruz60
Unleaded Regular
I’m asking you if the leak is in your roof gutter, hence flooding the floor at the B-pillar.
Doors are a separate entity and I do not have that problem , incidentally I have already removed all the door cards and cleaned the interior skin and applied Penetrol to seal that area.
Doors are a separate entity and I do not have that problem , incidentally I have already removed all the door cards and cleaned the interior skin and applied Penetrol to seal that area.
- Thread starter
- #153
I had originally thought the roof gutter was the point of entry, but barring major rust damage, it doesn’t seem like common entry point in practice.
Mine also has the chrome trim off, but that doesn’t seem to affect it either.
I think the repair there, in the case it is the point, is chiseling out the original roof seam sealer, and relaying the bead.
- Thread starter
- #154
Found a new water entry point in one of the firewall plug-through holes. I did a test patch in the empty hole using a left over plastic trim plug for the firewall weatherstripping.
For the accelerator cable pass-through, I modified an extra tip from my brake bleeding kit to snug up the cable in the hole. Not a 100% perfect fit, but we'll see how it goes.
I tried reseaming the lower firewall joint, originally thinking that was a hidden busted seam with the accident damage, but it was a red herring for the wiring bundle plug.
For the accelerator cable pass-through, I modified an extra tip from my brake bleeding kit to snug up the cable in the hole. Not a 100% perfect fit, but we'll see how it goes.
I tried reseaming the lower firewall joint, originally thinking that was a hidden busted seam with the accident damage, but it was a red herring for the wiring bundle plug.
Recently went and did the seams on my '82 before respraying the firewall, shocking how little sealer they used in the early trucks.
I've always wondered too why they seam seal the hinges for the hood, doesnt make much sense to me when it really doesn't seal anything off...
I've always wondered too why they seam seal the hinges for the hood, doesnt make much sense to me when it really doesn't seal anything off...
- Thread starter
- #156
I'll have to redo mine like that once I do a repaint/restore. It seems like the best way, all I'm doing now is ugly stop-gaps.Recently went and did the seams on my '82 before respraying the firewall, shocking how little sealer they used in the early trucks.
I've always wondered too why they seam seal the hinges for the hood, doesnt make much sense to me when it really doesn't seal anything off...
Whatever works for now my man, getting down to the level that I did opens the whole can of worms. all the time and money....
- Thread starter
- #158
Plugging up the firewall entry seems to have solved the other leak point, its survived 3-4 heavy rainstorms so far.
- Thread starter
- #159
Just to update this thread, I’ve been fighting the hood cable pass through in this firewall grommet. It’s like Niagara Falls gushing over this exact spot and it wasn’t designed for that amount of water flow.
I think the replacement hood firewall rubber seal isn’t keeping water from running down the firewall and all my efforts to stub up the hood cable pass through seem to fail, but this grommet is the leak source for sure. It fails the leak down test every time when it’s targeted. Sometimes I can stuff the brake hose tip I cut in far enough to last a week, but it always regresses.
How should I attack this area? Silicone and call it a day?
I think the replacement hood firewall rubber seal isn’t keeping water from running down the firewall and all my efforts to stub up the hood cable pass through seem to fail, but this grommet is the leak source for sure. It fails the leak down test every time when it’s targeted. Sometimes I can stuff the brake hose tip I cut in far enough to last a week, but it always regresses.
How should I attack this area? Silicone and call it a day?
red66toy
Supporting Vendor
Sorry if I missed this. Did you replace the rear hood-cowl rubber seal?
