FJ60 Power Steering Conversion for FJ40 while keeping air pump (2 Viewers)

[PabloCruise]

Here's a link to the bracket info on another thread.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/27036-idler-pulley-water-pump.html#post5314542

Here's the main thread... Several different options...

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/27036-idler-pulley-water-pump.html

Good stuff!

Here are Rocky's pictures:

And here are Pappy's examples from second link:

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I am wondering if the taper is the same btwn 60 and 70 series, so your pics will help!

Taper is the same. To my knowledge there are only two different tapers used by Toyota, well actually one actual taper degree but two common 'depths' or two different major/minor diameters. I've got a pair of BJ70 steering arms and they use the same taper. Pitman on the 70 is the big taper too, as we've used 80 Series ends on an SOA conversion there.

I'll see what I can come up with on that 70 Series Tie Rod end... if anyone has a part number let me know!

 

[PabloCruise]

Taper is the same. To my knowledge there are only two different tapers used by Toyota, well actually one actual taper degree but two common 'depths' or two different major/minor diameters. I've got a pair of BJ70 steering arms and they use the same taper. Pitman on the 70 is the big taper too, as we've used 80 Series ends on an SOA conversion there.

I'll see what I can come up with on that 70 Series Tie Rod end... if anyone has a part number let me know!

Thanks Kurt for the taper info!

Keep us posted on availability of that kit, as I am in need of replacing TRE's.

I balanced tires, but still have occasional shimmy in my wheel. It is different since they balanced tires, but still there...

 

[PabloCruise]

oh yeah, Mike's probably not in today but here is the number for Cabe in LB, CA., just ask for Mike Bingham..............800-576-2223. last time I spoke to Mike about these they came in an after-market kit that was much cheaper. Toyota does not offer these components in a kit form, you have to order ALL individual pieces. but the bonus was they came with either a tie rod with the ends or a relay rod with the drag link ends? don't remember which.

Thanks Sean,

I just got off the phone with Mike and he was trying to remember what all he got for you.

He is going to dig through his resources and give me a call back.

He did not think there were any aftermarket kits that had the rod and the ends, but he'll find out.

 

[PabloCruise]

I am trying to get down to an apples to apples comparison to Subzali's data.

Matt wrote:


On my 40, the relay rod (hybrid of 40 & 60 rods and ends) measures 37 7/8" zerk to zerk. The zerks are centered on each TRE.

The length of the rod itself is 26 1/2"

My 55 also has 60 series PS, done by the PO. This set up uses 60 ends at both ends of the relay rod, and the 60 relay rod has been sectioned. On the 55, there is a slight difference in frame dimensions. The box is bolted directly to the frame rail on this application. The frame has been sleeved. I went ahead and got measurements on the 55:

Zerk to zerk: 37 1/8"

Relay rod length: 25 1/4"

Pics of how the 60 box mounts to 55 frame:

I've got good news/bad news on the Series 70 drag link.

I talked with 70sguy, a Mud vendor in Canada who specializes in 70's (and a nice guy, too). The zerk-to-zerk length of a Series 70 drag link is 38 1/8," just 1/4" longer than TJ's measurements, so it could easily fit. The bad news is that he would have to charge at least $50 for a used drag link, and shipping from Canada would almost double that cost. If you really want to go all Toyota, a 70 drag link will work, but it will be much cheaper to have Front Range make you a custom rod that's probably stronger.

As for me, the SBC sitting under my hood makes "all Toyota" linkage kind of pointless. . .

Just trying to consolidate some data as I get close to order TRE's and replace my relay rod/tie rod.

Repost of subzali's diagram:

 

[PabloCruise]

45045-69045 pass relay tre
45451-60100 relay rod
45044-69085 drivers relay tre

45046-69115 pass tie rod tre
45461-60100 Tie rod
45047-69065 driver tie rod tre

-Wes

here's what I've got so far (more to come)

RH passenger side tie rod end........
45046-69155 1/90-7/99 as of '07 dealer price was $33.28

RH relay rod end.............
45045-69046 6/89-7/99 as of '07 dealer price was $56.84

LH tie rod end............
45047-69085 1/90-7/99as of '07 dealer price was $29.11

pitman arm end..............
45044-69086 11/84-7/99 as of '07 dealer price was $68.39

I have a PS/RH 70 series tie rod end and a 60 series PS/RH tie rod end that I could take pictures of to show the difference in dimensions

also the DS/LH drag link/relay rod end is shorter on the 70 series, but still not sure if it would work with retaining a 40 series stock dampener? It may be best to get two PS/RH relay rod ends(both 21mm) and get a custom relay rod cut and also use an after-market dampener?

have some kids stuff this morning but will get the pictures up by tonite.

hope this helps

oh yeah, Mike's probably not in today but here is the number for Cabe in LB, CA., just ask for Mike Bingham..............800-576-2223. last time I spoke to Mike about these they came in an after-market kit that was much cheaper. Toyota does not offer these components in a kit form, you have to order ALL individual pieces. but the bonus was they came with either a tie rod with the ends or a relay rod with the drag link ends? don't remember which.

Just trying to compare the p/n's that wes sent out previously with Sean's #'s.

Also, when I go back and read Sean's post, I wonder if the Toyota p/n's will get me the rod section as well?

 

[subzali]

sorry guys, I haven't had good internet for a while. I have a couple answers (I think) to some of the questions/issues that were brought up. In no particular order (order of memory )

-when you order a tie rod end from Toyota (at least with 40 series parts) it comes with the tie rod attached. So if you buy one left side and one right side you will end up with two tie rods.

-a 70 pitman arm is similar to a 60 arm, but there are some slight differences. I kept the 60 pitman arm on stock springs and don't have any problem with clearance when the springs are on the bumpstops. It all depends on how you mock it up; you have to make sure you give yourself enough clearance.

-a 70 series tie rod should be the solution to give you the right width to plug into 60 series knuckles that are mounted on a 40 series axle. I'm pretty sure rutbeer basically just ordered a full set of 70 series parts (tie rod ends, tubes etc.) and that's what worked for him. I can't guarantee the accuracy of that statement though.

-If you want a steering damper, I think using the 70 series rod end at the pitman arm will still be able to (almost) work with the 40 series steering damper mount. It may need slight modification, but really that is highly dependent on your box location. I think I'll be able to get mine to work, but have no idea when I'm going to try and address that issue.

-On my build, at first I tried to cut and straighten the Ford shock towers so I wouldn't have to cut into my fenders to get them to clear. But then I found out that the driver side tower was interfering with my u-joint on my steering shaft, so I had to go back to original uncut towers (and cut my fenders). It seems to me that you cannot keep stock towers in any case, but maybe there is someone out there who got by with some grinding on the original shock tower; in any case it's a real close fit and the Ford towers let you have longer travel shocks anyway, so...

-I am not sure how headers on a V8 are going to affect your intermediate shaft; you'll have to get it in there and mock it up. But I know the Saginaw shaft goes basically in the same place so I would think you could make it work.

-Even if you don't have a key, you can take the steering column/lock to a locksmith and they can pick it and make you a new key to fit it or they can rekey it to match you current set of keys. That's what I did, it was about $50.

Hope that helps!

 

[PabloCruise]

45045-69045 pass relay tre
45451-60100 relay rod
45044-69085 drivers relay tre

45046-69115 pass tie rod tre
45461-60100 Tie rod
45047-69065 driver tie rod tre

-Wes

here's what I've got so far (more to come)

RH passenger side tie rod end........
45046-69155 1/90-7/99 as of '07 dealer price was $33.28

RH relay rod end.............
45045-69046 6/89-7/99 as of '07 dealer price was $56.84

LH tie rod end............
45047-69085 1/90-7/99as of '07 dealer price was $29.11

pitman arm end..............
45044-69086 11/84-7/99 as of '07 dealer price was $68.39

I have a PS/RH 70 series tie rod end and a 60 series PS/RH tie rod end that I could take pictures of to show the difference in dimensions

also the DS/LH drag link/relay rod end is shorter on the 70 series, but still not sure if it would work with retaining a 40 series stock dampener? It may be best to get two PS/RH relay rod ends(both 21mm) and get a custom relay rod cut and also use an after-market dampener?

have some kids stuff this morning but will get the pictures up by tonite.

hope this helps

oh yeah, Mike's probably not in today but here is the number for Cabe in LB, CA., just ask for Mike Bingham..............800-576-2223. last time I spoke to Mike about these they came in an after-market kit that was much cheaper. Toyota does not offer these components in a kit form, you have to order ALL individual pieces. but the bonus was they came with either a tie rod with the ends or a relay rod with the drag link ends? don't remember which.

Just trying to compare the p/n's that wes sent out previously with Sean's #'s.

Also, when I go back and read Sean's post, I wonder if the Toyota p/n's will get me the rod section as well?

My dilemma is that these part numbers appear to either be superseded, or they are just flat out discontinued.

The passenger side relay rod end for the 70 series has been replaced by 45045-60H04.

The "H" designates that it is an assembly and comes with the relay rod tube or sleeve. This is also the same p/n for 60 series relay rod and the tube measures ~27 inches (Mike at Cabe measured for me).

The p/n for the relay rod end that mounts at the pitman arm is just dead - it has been disco'd.

I am starting to think this desire to order up a 70 relay rod from Toyota is just a waste of time.

I tried PM'ing 70sguy to ask for current p/n's and have not heard back from him.

I am about to pull the trigger on some 60 ends and get tube custom made. Kurt has my 40 series TRE's for the tie rod reamed out and ready to go.

Does anyone have any last ideas?

 

[PabloCruise]

belaw says a 70 series relay rod is about 38.125" (38 1/8")

subzali's diagram shows a 70 series relay rod to measure 35.25" (35 1/4") - minus the PS TRE (where it connects to the tie rod at the PS TRE)

So I would surmise that the PS TRE for relay rod is ~2.875" or 2 7/8"

The relay rod is ~37.875" on my 40.

If I add 9" + 2.875" for TRE's, it looks like I need a relay rod of about 26". These would be varied due to thread insertion lengths, etc.

This relay rod would be ~1.75" shorter than the stock 60 series relay rod...

 

[subzali]

TJ, that sounds about right. If you look at my diagram above again, the FJ40 overall length is almost darn near the same overall length as the BJ70 length (35 1/4"). So if you subtract the 9" by using the FJ60 TRE you get about 26 1/4". So if your tube is somewhere around 26-26 1/4" it seems it should work.

 

[PabloCruise]

Well, well, well!

I think I have some good news for those following the latest about how make a relay rod/drag link using factory parts...

I found some part numbers for BJ-70 parts (thanks cruiser_guy ) that yielded a passenger side relay rod end with tube assembly and a driver side relay rod end (connects to pitman arm) with tube assembly.

So I ended up with an extra tube assembly once I put both ends on the same tube.

Part number 45045-60H01 buys you the PS end w/ tube
Part number 45044-60H03 buys you the DS end w/ tube (left hand threads)

NOTE: the "H" in the part number denotes an assembly vs individual part.

The tube measures 30 3/8 inches
PS end measures about 2 1/2 inches if screwed all the way in
DS end measures about 4 1/2 inches if screwed all the way in
This should yield a relay rod assembly of about 37 3/8 inches.
I need an assembly measuring about 37 7/8 inches

This should work!!!

 

[PabloCruise]

Showing some measurements:

 

[PabloCruise]

Well, well, well!

I think I have some good news for those following the latest about how make a relay rod/drag link using factory parts...

I found some part numbers for BJ-70 parts (thanks cruiser_guy ) that yielded a passenger side relay rod end with tube assembly and a driver side relay rod end (connects to pitman arm) with tube assembly.

So I ended up with an extra tube assembly once I put both ends on the same tube.

Part number 45045-60H01 buys you the PS end w/ tube
Part number 45044-60H03 buys you the DS end w/ tube (left hand threads)

NOTE: the "H" in the part number denotes an assembly vs individual part.

The tube measures 30 3/8 inches
PS end measures about 2 1/2 inches if screwed all the way in
DS end measures about 4 1/2 inches if screwed all the way in
This should yield a relay rod assembly of about 37 3/8 inches.
I need an assembly measuring about 37 7/8 inches

This should work!!!

Got a chance to put these on today, along with some TRE's from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters. I had Kurt bore out the taper on the passenger side TRE for a 60 series. They all fit together beautifully!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Glad to hear it worked out nicely TJ. In the process of helping I learned something new. The Drag-Link Taper of an FJ60/62 is larger than the regular tie rod of the 60/62 which is the same as the 80 tie rod taper. So there are at least 3 common taper depths used by Toyota. All as the same actual taper just a different minor and major OD. Thanks again TJ!

 

[PabloCruise]

Ah! So in theory I could use an 80 TRE out where the relay rod meets the PS TRE...

Good to know Kurt! Thank you for the excellent service!!!

 

[PabloCruise]

One thing to note for anyone who buys these pieces (or 60 pieces) is that they do not ship tightened.

I had to pull the cotter pins, screw the ends in and then back off a touch and then re-set cotter pins.

I also greased all the ends with a lithium/molybdenum disulphide grease.

I discovered this when I took it for a test drive and jumped on the brakes hard and got some wobble in the wheel

Tighten the ends and then all is well with the world, no wobble/shimmy.

So there you have it! A PS install for your 40 using all Toyota parts.

Enjoy

 

[subzali]

TJ, is the drag link/relay rod end (first picture of post #152) the same for a 70 series as it is for a 60 series? Looking at SOR.com they look to be about the same.

So you had Kurt ream out the tapered connection where the drag link/relay rod plugs into the tie rod? Am I understanding that right? I like that idea!

 

[PabloCruise]

Correct - I did have Kurt ream out the PS TRE where it receives the relay rod/drag link.

Kurt confirmed the taper was the same and I *believe* at some point I figured out the relay rod end was the same p/n for 60 or 70 series. I would have to confirm in my notes somewhere. It ended up being cheaper for me to buy the two assemblies (assembly being with tube) than one assembly and one end - go figure!

Now I have a spare relay rod.

In other news, I still have a mild, intermittant shimmy in the wheel -

I am thinking one of the BFG's on front doesn't balance? I have the two closest size tires on the rear for Aussie locker. I am thinking I just need to rotate front to rear temporarily to isolate the "problem child"

 

[subzali]

Shocks? Or maybe the tire monkeys don't know how to balance tires? I just had my BFG A/Ts rebalanced on my Tundra and I'm still feeling a little shimmy...I'm thinking it's partly because my shocks are going bad...

 

[PabloCruise]

I might look at the shocks. They still feel nice and tight, not leaking any oil. Not sure how else to test them.

I also may think about a stabilizer after all.

No shimmy to report after driving yesterday and today. Do BFG MT's develop flat spots? Sometimes I won't drive the 40 for a week or so. I am wondering if that is when it shimmies.

I think I heard about people using some kind of sand or other media to balance tires internally? I might research on that a little more...