Factory Subwoofer Info Guide (4 Viewers)

[grinchy]

There's no "tuning" on a sealed box per se, except by manipulating size. At a certain size it stops changing the response, but below that point there will be box rise at a certain frequency, which creates a peak just above the roll off. For this box (about 6 cu ft volume), that peak is at about 32Hz. F3 (rolloff) is around 26 or 27Hz if I'm remembering correctly. But, cabin gain starts to take effect around 30Hz, which cancels out the roll off, resulting in a flat response once that box rise is EQ'd out.

Running the 3-way front stage (800w/8) / subs (mono 1000w) on JL Audio VXis.

Will be starting a build thread on this process to explain what exactly got done.

Yep, yep. Only the size is relevant for sealed, hear you on that. Must sound amazing. Would love to see some detail on how you put it together and what speaker sizes/models were used for the fronts.

 

[kcobourn]

Yep, yep. Only the size is relevant for sealed, hear you on that. Must sound amazing. Would love to see some detail on how you put it together and what speaker sizes/models were used for the fronts.

Pending a detailed thread here this is the bill of materials (BOM). I already owned the JL VXi 800/8 so that's the only 'missing' thing here until I move from 1 seat --> 2 seat tune. This is the brainchild of a friend of mine who happens to be an IASCA champ / judge. The only constraint was a hard no to cutting the floorpan to make an infinite baffle setup haha.

Box is made out of furniture-grade birch & have some walnut veneers / trim moldings that'll finish off the cosmetic work.

 

[grinchy]

Pending a detailed thread here this is the bill of materials (BOM). I already owned the JL VXi 800/8 so that's the only 'missing' thing here until I move from 1 seat --> 2 seat tune. This is the brainchild of a friend of mine who happens to be an IASCA champ / judge. The only constraint was a hard no to cutting the floorpan to make an infinite baffle setup haha.

Box is made out of furniture-grade birch & have some walnut veneers / trim moldings that'll finish off the cosmetic work.


View attachment 3228314

Thanks. Looks like $7k well spent! I played with the idea of putting an infinite baffle in my chimney a few years ago, but decided it wasn't appropriate for where I live (urban area).

 

[kcobourn]

Thanks. Looks like $7k well spent! I played with the idea of putting an infinite baffle in my chimney a few years ago, but decided it wasn't appropriate for where I live (urban area).

IB up the chimney would create quite the buzz on local boards (Nextdoor, etc) haha! Cost-wise it's ugly I'm likely 2x that factoring in what was spent on the last 100-series

 

[patpend2000]

Thanks for the thread, just installed the recommended SUB yesterday along with alpine 4" in the dash and lift gate. The sound is so much better with the new speakers

 

[sleepycruiser]

Thanks for the thread, just installed the recommended SUB yesterday along with alpine 4" in the dash and lift gate. The sound is so much better with the new speakers

Which sub did you end up using? Which Alpines?

 

[sleepycruiser]

The side dash speakers are a little tricky, probably the most difficult of all the speakers. You will need to trim part of the plastic opening to get the new speakers to fit, and you will need to tap a new hole for one of the screws. If you have a small right angle Phillips that will help with the install. I went with the JBL GX series 2.3 ohm. It made a huge difference.View attachment 2294251View attachment 2294252

Did you happen to check to see if the JBL GX would fit the center dash speaker as well? I’m sure they will fit in the rear door as there is a ton of space there. I think these might the speakers I go with since they match….now to find some 2 ohm door speakers.

 

[patpend2000]

I used this sub - CDT Audio HD-800 CF 8” DVC 2 ohm sub

Alpine S-S40 4" - they easily fit in the lift gate, the dash required trimming of some plastic to get the 4" to seat all the way down. If I were doing it again I'd probably go with 3 1/2" instead of 4" in the dash.

To wire the speakers in the rear lift gate I used the wiring adapters from crutchfield - for the dash speakers I de-soldered the plug from the factory speakers and resoldered to the new speakers.

For the sub I used male spade connectors in the stock connectors as adapters to the new sub since I like to keep the factory harness in-tact

I didn't touch the center speaker

 

[sleepycruiser]

I used this sub - CDT Audio HD-800 CF 8” DVC 2 ohm sub

Alpine S-S40 4" - they easily fit in the lift gate, the dash required trimming of some plastic to get the 4" to seat all the way down. If I were doing it again I'd probably go with 3 1/2" instead of 4" in the dash.

To wire the speakers in the rear lift gate I used the wiring adapters from crutchfield - for the dash speakers I de-soldered the plug from the factory speakers and resoldered to the new speakers.

For the sub I used male spade connectors in the stock connectors as adapters to the new sub since I like to keep the factory harness in-tact

I didn't touch the center speaker

Thanks for the info. Did you hear a noticeable difference on the sub? I see the subs on eBay and the company website listed as Ohms: 2x2. Is that the one you ordered? Any random wire technique or just plug and play. I emailed them but haven’t received a response. Wasn’t sure on the ‘2x2’.

 

[patpend2000]

Thanks for the info. Did you hear a noticeable difference on the sub? I see the subs on eBay and the company website listed as Ohms: 2x2. Is that the one you ordered? Any random wire technique or just plug and play. I emailed them but haven’t received a response. Wasn’t sure on the ‘2x2’.

Update - I also filled the stock box with fill material from Crutchfield also - not sure if this helped or not

Yes very noticeable difference for bass heavy songs especially. Pretty much plug and play with the wiring adapter I created and you have to create 4 new screw holes in the panel (self tapping screws used) . As noted above in this thread the factory wiring is backwards.

 

[sleepycruiser]

Update - I also filled the stock box with fill material from Crutchfield also - not sure if this helped or not

Yes very noticeable difference for bass heavy songs especially. Pretty much plug and play with the wiring adapter I created and you have to create 4 new screw holes in the panel (self tapping screws used) . As noted above in this thread the factory wiring is backwards. View attachment 3311782

Thanks. So just need to take the positive from the LC200 side and put it on the negative of the sub and take the negative of the LC200 side and put it on the positive of the sub?

 

[sleepycruiser]

So I just looked a the JBL System in the FSM. It is really different from the Mark Levinson!

Most of the action is on F58 at the receiver and F55 at the amp. You also get two separate fused power pins at the Amp on the power ground/acc connector, so adding a DSP and one amp is pretty manageable, could reuse the factory wiring maybe.

I see that 6v MOST signal for power on and ACC, it's the newer 6v carrier wave type acc.

What is different is that instead of L and R (edit again, looks like L and R may be the MOST signals on F62, see a couple posts down) (F55 is speaker level outputs that are already filtered probably). Awkward. A competent DSP can mix these signals together (for example the Alpine PXE-850S I'm using can do it) to derive the full range, there is a shield ground in the mix, which will be no fun.

The telematics etc is also there as separate signals if you want to mess with it.

View attachment 2282058

So I bought a new component set with Xover to replace my fronts. This diagram looks as though there is a Xover somewhere….I haven’t looked yet, but should I run the wires from the 6x9 into the new Xover and then run speaker wires to the new 6.5 and new tweeters or should I not use the new Xover and just replace the speakers using the existing wires?

 

[lx200inAR]

So I bought a new component set with Xover to replace my fronts. This diagram looks as though there is a Xover somewhere….I haven’t looked yet, but should I run the wires from the 6x9 into the new Xover and then run speaker wires to the new 6.5 and new tweeters or should I not use the new Xover and just replace the speakers using the existing wires?

Based on the drawing from the FSM. It looks like the front 6x9s are on their own channel off the amp that is most likely not full range (Front No.1 Speaker) labeled as WFR. And then there is a single channel for the dash (Front No.2 Speaker) and A pillar speakers (Front No.3 Speaker). The crossover is probably just a single capacitor to block lower frequencies from the tweeter, I'd say it's 50/50 whether that signal is full range or not.

If I were attempting this, I'd probably go for the Hail Mary and not use the JBL crossover that came with the new speakers and plug the drivers directly into the places you are mounting them.

 

[sleepycruiser]

Based on the drawing from the FSM. It looks like the front 6x9s are on their own channel off the amp that is most likely not full range (Front No.1 Speaker) labeled as WFR. And then there is a single channel for the dash (Front No.2 Speaker) and A pillar speakers (Front No.3 Speaker). The crossover is probably just a single capacitor to block lower frequencies from the tweeter, I'd say it's 50/50 whether that signal is full range or not.

If I were attempting this, I'd probably go for the Hail Mary and not use the JBL crossover that came with the new speakers and plug the drivers directly into the places you are mounting them.

It looks to me as they are on the same channel, which would indicate a crossover I think? Maybe once I take my door card off I can see what the wiring looks like. F8 and F14 appear to be the front door woofer and tweeter. The speaker on the diagram on the top left and right would be the outer dash speakers?

 

[lx200inAR]

It looks to me as they are on the same channel, which would indicate a crossover I think? Maybe once I take my door card off I can see what the wiring looks like. F8 and F14 appear to be the front door woofer and tweeter. The speaker on the diagram on the top left and right would be the outer dash speakers?

On the LX ML system there is no speakers in the front upper doors. Only the woofer in the lower section. The "mid/hi" speakers for the front stage are in the dashboard and the A Pillar. I'm sure there probably is a discrete filter (capacitor) on the tweeter in the A Pillar. That would constitute a "crossover" technically. I believe the way the above drawing is laid out, that the dash speaker and A pillar share an amplifier channel with a simple filter/crossover protecting the tweeter. I checked some pictures of interiors of LCs and it looked the same. Possibly you have a different setup.

If you noticed in the same diagram, the rear doors are different because the "mid/hi" portion and the woofer are all in the doors. I'm sure the same thing is at play there. Since that is most likely a full range signal from the amplifier, possibly there's a "full blown" crossover in that door, but also likely that the woofer is getting full range and the "hi/mid" portion has another simple filter.

 

[sleepycruiser]

On the LX ML system there is no speakers in the front upper doors. Only the woofer in the lower section. The "mid/hi" speakers for the front stage are in the dashboard and the A Pillar. I'm sure there probably is a discrete filter (capacitor) on the tweeter in the A Pillar. That would constitute a "crossover" technically. I believe the way the above drawing is laid out, that the dash speaker and A pillar share an amplifier channel with a simple filter/crossover protecting the tweeter. I checked some pictures of interiors of LCs and it looked the same. Possibly you have a different setup.

If you noticed in the same diagram, the rear doors are different because the "mid/hi" portion and the woofer are all in the doors. I'm sure the same thing is at play there. Since that is most likely a full range signal from the amplifier, possibly there's a "full blown" crossover in that door, but also likely that the woofer is getting full range and the "hi/mid" portion has another simple filter.

Hmm…I hadn’t considered that the dash speakers and the tweeters would be tied together….I’d thought the door woofers (6x9s) would be tied to the tweeter with a Xover. When I had my door cards out putting the sound deadening I didn’t even check bc I was assuming that is the way it was done. I’ll see if I can do some more digging.

 

[grinchy]

I have always assumed that the DSP in the ML system was doing time, balance/fader, and frequency limitations by channel, in conjunction with some sort of physical crossover for the high/mid channels.

This was mainly due to the onscreen controls for balance/fader, and the number of watts the amp is listed at, which to me meant that the amp was filtering lows to as few channels as possible so it could drive the mid/hi with as few watts as possible (and put those watts into the lows).

 

[sleepycruiser]

Just chatted with Crutchfield. 6x9s are tied to the tweeters although they couldn’t determine where/if there was a crossover or not. Only 2 wires going into the tweeter so that eliminates the Xover being there…which is weird bc the diagram had me believing otherwise. I’m going to pull my doors off and figure it out and I’ll document it here if no one else ends up posting the info.

 

[patpend2000]

Thanks. So just need to take the positive from the LC200 side and put it on the negative of the sub and take the negative of the LC200 side and put it on the positive of the sub?

See post #52 for the wiring

 

[sleepycruiser]

The side dash speakers are a little tricky, probably the most difficult of all the speakers. You will need to trim part of the plastic opening to get the new speakers to fit, and you will need to tap a new hole for one of the screws. If you have a small right angle Phillips that will help with the install. I went with the JBL GX series 2.3 ohm. It made a huge difference.View attachment 2294251View attachment 2294252

I installed one of these GX428 2.3 ohm speakers in the front left dash….I don’t think it is much of an improvement over stock. The one I hooked up sound like it has a ‘brittle’ top end. I did not hook up the right dash bc I wasn’t overly impressed. I wonder if for some reason it would sound better with both? At least the one I hooked up should have sounded good?