Factory Subwoofer Info Guide

[grinchy]

Nope. It works fine. Was just thinking "upgrade" lol
But if the stock amp can't power an aftermarket sub without issues then I'll just keep it as is.

The stock sub isn’t inherently bad. It’s looks a lot like a hifi sub (paper, low xmax, small magnet and voice coil). I bet it’s really high efficiency, and sounds good up to a point, which is where the stock dsp will roll it off.

Without changing the dsp, an aftermarket sub would be treated the same way, so I doubt much difference in the envelope. Like @Ratchey said, probably worse as the efficiency will almost certainly be worse on a bumpin sub.

It all comes back really to dealing with the dsp, either bypassing or replacing the factory dsp.

 

[stickey]

Thank you. now looking at an Alpine S2 and if I can get it to fit behind the panel, the ACX 600.1

Did you end up going this route? Have a 2009 LX and thinking through a sub + amp upfit.

Mess with the front speakers later - I can't quite tell what's needed / suggested on a stock ML system, if anything.

 

[UT08LX570]

This thread was very helpful for me doing tge swap on my 08 LX and I realized I never made my contribution. I ended up going with a recoil DI600.1 amp, a cheap CT sounds bio 10", and an audiocontrol LC1 line output convertor. LOC is under driver seat, was able to sacrifice the rear passenger 3rd row cubby and cupholder to mount the amp behind the panel with the controls accessible. I still plan to make clvers for these openings with integrated USBs for the rear. Remote bass knob in ash tray.

 

[grinchy]

Did you end up going this route? Have a 2009 LX and thinking through a sub + amp upfit.

Mess with the front speakers later - I can't quite tell what's needed / suggested on a stock ML system, if anything.

A real subwoofer helps out a lot. I am still rocking all the other ML speakers and find the soundstage ad volume fine.
I did turn down the middle row speakers a little.
I just have a cheap sub and mid range amp. Realistically the cubic volume availability of the stock sub location limits what it will ever be, but with a good amp and some dsp it can still make for a dance party.

 

[stickey]

I agree. I find it's one of the better stock systems (not a high bar), but works well. The sub is solid but could be better. Which is the purpose of this thread.

For the amp, the leaning to the ACX 1.300.

1) it's small and I can stuff it in the hole that's there (I don't want to move the jack around) and

2) at ~30 amp fused, I can parallel it off the rear seats power circuit (which is 30A). There is no reason to think I'd ever have both running in parallel. I'm an electrical engineer, so I play fast / loose with electrons sometimes.

For subs, the JL 10tw3 is $450-550 - and I don't care that much. I can't find one cheaper on ebay / FB marketplace, so I'll move on to the next step down. And if I stay at 300 watts, I'm not really giving this sub what it needs given the relativity low efficiency.

So for subs:
1) Just need to pick a 10" that meets the requirements of the amp chosen (2 ohms, ~300W capable), 10" and less than 5" of depth.
2) Then just pick.

 

[Ratchey]

How’s the alpine sub doing?

So frustrating. I hope all the magic smoke is still in there.
I’m pretty sure there’d be a stack of gear on the ground roadside if my sub went out.

I suck. Just realized I never replied back with what happened. I had to send the DSP back to Audio Control. It was $200 to have it diagnosed and repaired. (It had a rough 8 years so to be expected) I reinstalled it and it has been working perfectly ever sense.
Someday I do need to pull the sub box back out and add more dampening matt. I am getting a lot of vibration from somewhere in that quarter panel area and it is very noticeable from the outside.
Other that that, I love the sub. I have to be careful to not over power it on really heavy bass songs. Probably just need to shut off the bass restoration settings or at lower them greatly. But I am very pleased with the amount of bass provided and how well it can punch for a small sub.

So anyone looking for a higher power handling sub, I can highly recommend the Alpine Next Generation Series 2 (V2) Alpine S2-W10D4
These are not efficient speakers so you will need an amp to power them.
• Peak Power: 1800 watts
• RMS Power: 600 watts
• Impedance: Dual 4 ohm
• Carbon Fiber Polypropylene Cone
• High-Amplitude Multi-Roll (HAMR) Surround
• Mount depth: 4.54"
• Sensitivity: 84.9 dB

You do need to redrill the mounting holes on the speaker. The sub box has reinforced mounting holes but isn't very thick around the rest of the mounting surface. These are fairly heavy subs so utilizing the mounting holes in the box would be optimal.

 

[stickey]

I suck. Just realized I never replied back with what happened. I had to send the DSP back to Audio Control. It was $200 to have it diagnosed and repaired. (It had a rough 8 years so to be expected) I reinstalled it and it has been working perfectly ever sense.
Someday I do need to pull the sub box back out and add more dampening matt. I am getting a lot of vibration from somewhere in that quarter panel area and it is very noticeable from the outside.
Other that that, I love the sub. I have to be careful to not over power it on really heavy bass songs. Probably just need to shut off the bass restoration settings or at lower them greatly. But I am very pleased with the amount of bass provided and how well it can punch for a small sub.

So anyone looking for a higher power handling sub, I can highly recommend the Alpine Next Generation Series 2 (V2) Alpine S2-W10D4
These are not efficient speakers so you will need an amp to power them.
• Peak Power: 1800 watts
• RMS Power: 600 watts
• Impedance: Dual 4 ohm
• Carbon Fiber Polypropylene Cone
• High-Amplitude Multi-Roll (HAMR) Surround
• Mount depth: 4.54"
• Sensitivity: 84.9 dB

You do need to redrill the mounting holes on the speaker. The sub box has reinforced mounting holes but isn't very thick around the rest of the mounting surface. These are fairly heavy subs so utilizing the mounting holes in the box would be optimal.

Do you think 300W (specifically Audiocontrol ACX 300.1 or ACM 1.300) will be sufficient with that Alpine?

Alpine has been purchased (found an open box buy that was cheap).

Looks like my options are 1) Audio control near the sub box or 2) install under passenger seat and could go larger. Possibly use a feed from rear seats power (30A fuse) to power amp?

 

[Sajan]

is it possible to add a subwoofer to the base system in a LX?

 

[Ratchey]

Do you think 300W (specifically Audiocontrol ACX 300.1 or ACM 1.300) will be sufficient with that Alpine?

Alpine has been purchased (found an open box buy that was cheap).

Looks like my options are 1) Audio control near the sub box or 2) install under passenger seat and could go larger. Possibly use a feed from rear seats power (30A fuse) to power amp?

I personally prefer the amp to provide more power than the speakers can handle. The reason for this is called clean power. If you underpower a sub and you push the amp too hard you will have what is called clipping. That will damage a speaker much quicker that overpowering it.

If you are extremely self controlled with your bass, and it is tuned and set correctly then yes, that will power it but not to it's full capabilities.

 

[Ratchey]

is it possible to add a subwoofer to the base system in a LX?

You can add a subwoofer to any car stereo. Are you sure you don't have a sub? I know my ES with a base system had a small sub in the back. Maybe the LX is different.

If you don't have a sub you will need an amp with a DSP (digital sound processor) for separating and enhancing the frequencies, a sub and likely the sub box.

 

[grinchy]

Do you think 300W (specifically Audiocontrol ACX 300.1 or ACM 1.300) will be sufficient with that Alpine?

Alpine has been purchased (found an open box buy that was cheap).

Looks like my options are 1) Audio control near the sub box or 2) install under passenger seat and could go larger. Possibly use a feed from rear seats power (30A fuse) to power amp?

Suggest acx600.1

 

[grinchy]

I’m very happy with my $70 pawnshop JBL gtx500. It fits in the jack area pretty easily. Here’s an eBay link for same amp, just as an example. You’ll still need a separate DSP though. It has no problem with the 200w/600w dvc 10” I have. I only run party mode for 30 or 40 min at a time though.

 

[stickey]

is it possible to add a subwoofer to the base system in a LX?

Base LX570 is the ML, which has a 10" sub.

Options are 1) replacing that 10" sub with another speaker (stock amp) - not usually a good result 2) adding an amp to that now-replaced stock speaker at stock location or 3) new amp with separate box.

Many with the LX do #2 since stock system is pretty good. Many with LC do #3, since the base setup isn't as good.

 

[Sajan]

Base LX570 is the ML, which has a 10" sub.

Options are 1) replacing that 10" sub with another speaker (stock amp) - not usually a good result 2) adding an amp to that now-replaced stock speaker at stock location or 3) new amp with separate box.

Many with the LX do #2 since stock system is pretty good. Many with LC do #3, since the base setup isn't as good.

Unfortunately mines even more base lol and doesn’t have ML.
It’s just a 9 speaker system without the sub.

 

[grinchy]

Unfortunately mines even more base lol and doesn’t have ML.
It’s just a 9 speaker system without the sub.

You can buy the sub box on eBay. Of course availability will vary with region.
Some years it is easier to get ahold of the source than others. For example on my 2009 the coax digital and L and R analog full range are available at the amplifier on a stock plug. That makes aftermarket amplifier and DSP simple to do. Not all years are like this.

 

[stickey]

Path forward, open to comments. Posting more fully to help others.

2009 LX 570 with ML.

Purchased Alpine S2 sub. Purchased AudioControl LC2i pro w/ remote. Purchased 8 gauge amp wiring kit. Have an old Rockford Fosgate Punch 60ix dsm (should be good for ~300+ amps at 2 ohms bridged - I'll open up, clean out and re-thermal paste fets if it fires up) - need to verify it works after sitting on a shelf for 2 decades. I'll bench check it before anything else, but the LC2i gives me options for a budget amp.

I'm assuming a few hours for under front seats (3+) and a few hours at the back (2+). A full day event in total?

Path forward.

0) Disconnect battery.
1) take out front passenger seat and drivers seats.
2) Run 8 gauge amp power from battery. Any tips on where to route and where to punch through firewall?
3) Grab sub mono analog speaker level signal from ML amp under driver's seat (See earlier post). Is this the best signal?
4) Connect power to both, inputs from ML to LC2i, RCA and remote turn on between LC2i and amp. Run remote bass level somewhere convenient.
5) Run speaker wires to rear. Do middle seats needs to come out?
6) Pull speaker box, add polyfill, add dampening all around,
7) Make speaker adapter ring from wood to strengthen connection. Alpine has ~8 holes, not the stock 6. (thoughts here? from metal?)
8) Wire up speaker / install speaker / reinstall sub box.
9) Cross fingers.
10) reconnect battery, start car, see what works and what doesn't.
11) fix whatever doesn't work.
12) Go to 9 and repeat until all works.
13) Tune sub.
14) enjoy tunes.

 

[stickey]

The stock sub is sealed on all 200s. Lx570s got a 10”, tlc an 8”
I ultimately replaced the entire signal path (though I can use the stock HU as a source if necessary). I didn’t replace any drivers except the sub.

My year Lx (2009) ML system places a coax 5.1 digital signal and full range 2 channel analog right on the ‘input’ connectors to the amplifier. This may vary by year, so grab the fsm and give it a look. The tlc jbl system uses a most protocol (private network) to the amp and is much less amenable to aftermarket updates as you have to grab the signal post amplifier.

Which connector is F18? I can find pictures / graphics of F4, F31, F3.

I'm planning on just grabbing that signal (paralleling into the LC2i) for the sub inputs?

Or would a different input make "more" sense?

My current system works (unlike yours).

~~~

Update - will use the F3 high level, single channel output to the LC2i to keep the stock adjustments on the HU and use Accubass for the "rebuilding" of the bass at higher output levels. Thought is that putting the F18 (full range stereo HU output) wouldn't give much adjustment, and I'd have to rely on the remote bass knob. Pulling the F3, post ML amp output gives a bit more adjustment. Limit would be low pass frequency range only to the sub, which isn't much of a concern.

 

[grinchy]

you’re probably stuck with post ML amp since you’ll be using the HU volume control etc. so that’ll be the high level / speaker signal out for the sub.

I’m always forget about that, since I still use the HU (rarely) as a source, but I have a separate DSP and volume control, so the full range signal made sense for my use case.

 

[Ratchey]

Path forward, open to comments. Posting more fully to help others.

2009 LX 570 with ML.

Purchased Alpine S2 sub. Purchased AudioControl LC2i pro w/ remote. Purchased 8 gauge amp wiring kit. Have an old Rockford Fosgate Punch 60ix dsm (should be good for ~300+ amps at 2 ohms bridged - I'll open up, clean out and re-thermal paste fets if it fires up) - need to verify it works after sitting on a shelf for 2 decades. I'll bench check it before anything else, but the LC2i gives me options for a budget amp.

I'm assuming a few hours for under front seats (3+) and a few hours at the back (2+). A full day event in total?

Path forward.

0) Disconnect battery.
1) take out front passenger seat and drivers seats.
2) Run 8 gauge amp power from battery. Any tips on where to route and where to punch through firewall?
3) Grab sub mono analog speaker level signal from ML amp under driver's seat (See earlier post). Is this the best signal?
4) Connect power to both, inputs from ML to LC2i, RCA and remote turn on between LC2i and amp. Run remote bass level somewhere convenient.
5) Run speaker wires to rear. Do middle seats needs to come out?
6) Pull speaker box, add polyfill, add dampening all around,
7) Make speaker adapter ring from wood to strengthen connection. Alpine has ~8 holes, not the stock 6. (thoughts here? from metal?)
8) Wire up speaker / install speaker / reinstall sub box.
9) Cross fingers.
10) reconnect battery, start car, see what works and what doesn't.
11) fix whatever doesn't work.
12) Go to 9 and repeat until all works.
13) Tune sub.
14) enjoy tunes.

Good luck finding room under the seats. I am running an Alpine PDX 600-1 digital amp and there was not enough room for my stuff.
Middle seat does not need to come out. There is enough room under the door sills to run the wiring.
If you got the 10" second gen alpine sub you will not need a wooden ring. And unless you are mounting it inside the box, there isn't enough room for it anyway. Just redrill the Alpine sub. Turn the ML sub over and mark the holes. You only need to drill 4 holes. Be careful of the metal shavings.
I have the BH3D cupholder and spent some time with a dremel and mounted my bass control knob on that. I originally had it in the front ashtray but that now houses my Redarc controller and the USB cable for the Hamilton unit.