F vs. 2F (1 Viewer)

[Boaf 32]

LCers,

I am replacing a cracked engine block and have the option to go to a 2F vs a 1F. My understanding is that the 2F is suppose to be more reliable with better oil flow, and parts are more readily available. I'm not sure on that statement and would like to here from the room.

What are your thoughts? The 2F is a head, valves, Valve cover and short block. I supply the Carb, alternator, PS, Dizzy (Is the distributor the same)?

Why I'm considering switching:
Attached is a picture of the oil on the head, the short block was just re-built (yeah that Sux).

The oil drained out was white. Pulled the oil pan, saw no cracks, but when the trans was being mated to the engine, the Pilot bearing was not lined up and the input shaft forced the driveshaft and flywheels into the engine block. As it was being wrenched into place, that's when I heard the distinctive sound of an engine cracking (it's very distinctive and gut wrenching). The flywheel moved so far forward that the engine would not turn with the starter.

Boaf

 

[brian]

Can only imagine how hard you were trying to force that on.

 

[Boaf 32]

No matter how hard I pushed by hand, the input shat wouldn't go (the clutch was not lined perfectly, even with the alignment tool). My own stupid fault for not continuously checking. Was focused on equal distance when cranking the 4 bolts (counting the turns) Arghhh.

 

[brian]

regardless.
the 2f is the better engine.
you can even dress it up to look like an F.

 

[Boaf 32]

73FJ40, Poser, Brian,

Two (2) questions:

1. Will a 1975 2F motor mate to a 3 speed transmission?
   
2. Will header exhaust fit the 1975 2F as it does for the 72 F engine?

@Poser @73FJ40 I respect your input here, thanks.

Boaf

 

[73FJ40]

73FJ40, Poser, Brian,
@Boaf 32
Two (2) questions:

1. Will a 1975 2F motor mate to a 3 speed transmission?
   
2. Will header exhaust fit the 1975 2F as it does for the 72 F engine?

@Poser @73FJ40 I respect your input here, thanks.

Boaf

1. Yes. The bell housings for the three speed and four speed are different on the transmission end, but identical on matching the engine.

2. Yes. the layout of the ports and studs on the 2F are identical to that of the F.

You may need the 'special' studs to adapt F manifolds to the 2F head. The 2F has larger diameter studs, however Toyota makes a special stud which 'necks down' to the diameter. it all depends on how much clearance there is in the 'holes' of the manifolds.

 

[Boaf 32]

1. Yes. The bell housings for the three speed and four speed are different on the transmission end, but identical on matching the engine.

2. Yes. the layout of the ports and studs on the 2F are identical to that of the F.

You may need the 'special' studs to adapt F manifolds to the 2F head. The 2F has larger diameter studs, however Toyota makes a special stud which 'necks down' to the diameter. it all depends on how much clearance there is in the 'holes' of the manifolds.

And yes sir I greatly thank you. 2F is the way I am leaning and will update the Studs. Seams like a small price to pay for a larger motor that is "more dependable" Thanks.

Boaf

 

[73FJ40]

"the Pilot bearing was not lined up and the input shaft forced the driveshaft and flywheels into the engine block. As it was being wrenched into place,"
Ouch.

Rule 1: make certain the input shaft slides into the pilot bearing before installing the bearing in the flywheel.

Rule 2: If the transmission doesn't slide into the pilot bearing, you need to align the clutch disc better with the centerline of the input shaft/pilot bearing. If it's lined up properly, the transmission input shaft housing collar should side flush into the bell housing, just by pushing it.

Post #8 of the link below illustrates how I had to get it to align; also note I used alignment studs to support the
transmission to get it in proper location.

CLUTCH FORK WOES

 

[MoCoNative]

I would have thought the bolts would have stripped before you could put that much force on it with the tranny to bell bolts. Were you using longer bolts, I seem to recall they are pretty short. If it was that far out of alignment I can't see all 4 even starting.

On the tranny swap side. Bellhousings are interchangeable. You can use either clutch setup, but they have to be matched sets. So if you want to use your new clutch and such for the 3 speed, you need to retain the flywheel, disc, clutch housing and throwout parts from the 1F. If you want to use the 2F flywheel, you will need the matching clutch and throwout parts for it. They can be swapped to work in either bellhousing, but you can mix and match. The flywheels are different which makes the clutch designs different, etc.

Personally if you are swapping engines I would go for the 80 and up 2F, better performance than the earlier ones. All more powerful than the 1F. 4 speed is really worth it too actually.

 

[MoCoNative]

I went back through some of your threads, you already have a 2F engine. If your block is really cracked, just swap the blocks???

Either way, you don't have a 1F, and the engine is stamped near the starter, yours clearly said 2F from the photo I could see, and it has the 2F oiling system, filter on passenger side.

 

[brian]

Dependable isnt the right word.
The 2f just has a better oiling plan.

 

[Boaf 32]

Interesting about me already having a 2F. I know the block was not original. A 2F is determined on where the oil filter is? If so, yes mine is on the passenger side.

Boaf

 

[Boaf 32]

"the Pilot bearing was not lined up and the input shaft forced the driveshaft and flywheels into the engine block. As it was being wrenched into place,"
Ouch.

Rule 1: make certain the input shaft slides into the pilot bearing before installing the bearing in the flywheel.

Rule 2: If the transmission doesn't slide into the pilot bearing, you need to align the clutch disc better with the centerline of the input shaft/pilot bearing. If it's lined up properly, the transmission input shaft housing collar should side flush into the bell housing, just by pushing it.

Post #8 of the link below illustrates how I had to get it to align; also note I used alignment studs to support the
transmission to get it in proper location.

CLUTCH FORK WOES

And yes, it did not slide in easy at all.

 

[MoCoNative]

Interesting about me already having a 2F. I know the block was not original. A 2F is determined on where the oil filter is? If so, yes mine is on the passenger side.

Boaf

Look at the engine number rearward of the distributor, near the forward end of the starter, I'm sure it was stamped "2F" in one of your photos in your rebuild thread. A 1F just says "F" on it.

 

[Boaf 32]

Look at the engine number rearward of the distributor, near the forward end of the starter, I'm sure it was stamped "2F" in one of your photos in your rebuild thread. A 1F just says "F" on it.

I'll checked again, the flat place in front of the starter where it should be stamped isblank. I recall in the thread someone said it was a re-casting.

Boaf.

 

[JohnnyC]

No engine stamp means it is a replacement block

You can find the casting number on the drivers side

 

[Boaf 32]

That I have Attached. What dictates 2F other than the oil filter on the passenger side? Just curious.

Bob

 

[MoCoNative]

I stand corrected, the picture I saw in your flywheel bolt thread was someone else's engine, sorry about that. Your block definitely has the newer oiling system, but could have been the transition F engine. I don't know from casting number above. The last few months of F engine production the oiling was redone like the 2F. So that makes more sense if the original F engine died and was replaced later by Toyota they used the last production F blocks, but I think they would have to replace the head with it, so it may have been a complete engine replacement. Heads oiled differently also.

 

[JohnnyC]

What are the numbers near the oil sender

 

[JohnnyC]

The part number is indicating it’s a 74’ block ... most likely the number in rear starts with 4 it’s a transitional F block what we call the ‘f and a half’ engine or F.5