Experiences with Nitro Cut-to-length Chromoly FF Axles?

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi all,

Stump, since you are set on a full-floater (to do away with the c-clips) and need to stay with an off-set rear diff, I think using a 80 Series rear axle assembly might be the way to roll (pun intended! .)

They are available relatively cheap, and you might be able to use your existing Air Locker in the 80 diff (can't quite remember the differences.) And this will be stock Toyota parts, not a mix of factory and aftermarket.

Regards,

Alan

 

[Stumpalama]

Alan,

I thought of that, but then I'm in the situation of regearing and cutting all the bracketry off AND redoing my anti-wrap bar and spring perches.

I'm curious why people are against using my current axle housing and adding FF brackets and chromo inners.

Yes, I am pretty convinced this is a good solution as it nets me the FF, chromo axles and a slightly wider stance without being ridiculous. Frankly, I'm surprised this isn't a more popular modification.

 

[47coeman]

Hey Stump
Here is what I am doing on my build, 80 e-locker full float ruff stuff housing with chromo axles. The great part of this hobby is we get to chose the way we want it. It is great we have input from some guys that have mega experience but it is also ok to try something different. if we fail at the idea chalk it up to experience and we were warned. I have seen stock rears, 350 go a long ways and work fine if you don't pound on them. Good luck in making your decision and I would like to thank all of the regulars for there input it is valuable to all of us.

 

[Stumpalama]

Those RS housings are sweet. I had contemplated just giving Dan all my measurements and requirements and having him fab the entire axle (cut to fit the inner axles, spring perches, FF brackets, anti-wrap mount, brake line bosses, and shock mounts) and I would just need to pop in the 3rds, mount the spindle and hubs, and hook up the brakes and giddy-up.

...but I have this masochistic side that says, "You can do that" and here I sit cobbling together parts and planning.

 

[47coeman]

Stump
The housing is stout for sure, 1/4' tubes cant think of a better set up. One thing you wouldn't have to worry about breaking that piece. in my case the likely hood is never. Bare housing is six and change get your axles cut and you are almost there and never have to look back...

 

[jstncse]

Stumpalama,

I've got all the answers. I have been beating on my FJ40 modded FF axle with Nitro CTL shafts for almost a year now. It would have been over a year but Nitro couldn't produce the long side shaft for almost 4 months. I added LCWizards flanges to my 40 axle and it matches my FJ60 front WMS almost exactly. I am also running 37" PBR with a 4:1 Orion and a 4.7:1 doubler running abusive Southwest trails every weekend.

In my case the built axle only cost about $700 as I already had the extra FJ60 front brake parts and spindles to complete it. I will eventually go to a 14 bolt and a Dana 60 when I link it but until then I am very happy with my axle.

I have also ended up with better brakes than the Monte Carlo option provides by running V6 calipers up front and FJ60 calipers in the rear.

Hopefully Nitro has the axles in stock so that you do not have to wait as long as I did.

 

[jim land]

do it with your stock housing , i beat my FF converted stock housing since 2004 with a sb350 locker and 4;56 on 35" tire , i use a warn FF kit made in the late 90

if one day i need a full floater for an other project ,my choice would be a LCWizards or ruff stuff flanges over a stock toyota FF housing

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi all,

Well, I have to say I have enjoyed this thread; it has been informative, and I am looking forward to hearing how the FF conversion goes!

-Alan

Alan,

I thought of that, but then I'm in the situation of, regearing and cutting all the bracketry off AND redoing my anti-wrap bar and spring perches.

I curious why people are against using my current axle housing and adding FF brackets and chromo inners.

Yes, I am pretty convinced this is a good solution as it nets me the FF, chromo axles and a slightly wider stance without being ridiculous. Frankly, I'm surprised this isn't a more popular modification.

 

[Stumpalama]

Stumpalama,

I've got all the answers. I have been beating on my FJ40 modded FF axle with Nitro CTL shafts for almost a year now. It would have been over a year but Nitro couldn't produce the long side shaft for almost 4 months. I added LCWizards flanges to my 40 axle and it matches my FJ60 front WMS almost exactly. I am also running 37" PBR with a 4:1 Orion and a 4.7:1 doubler running abusive Southwest trails every weekend.

In my case the built axle only cost about $700 as I already had the extra FJ60 front brake parts and spindles to complete it. I will eventually go to a 14 bolt and a Dana 60 when I link it but until then I am very happy with my axle.

I have also ended up with better brakes than the Monte Carlo option provides by running V6 calipers up front and FJ60 calipers in the rear.

Hopefully Nitro has the axles in stock so that you do not have to wait as long as I did.

Wow! your set up is SO similar to mine! Thanks for finding this thread and providing your experience. That's the kind of data I've been seeking.

What was your final WMS to WMS measurement with lcwizard's brackets?

What doubler are you using?

Hi all,

Well, I have to say I have enjoyed this thread; it has been informative, and I am looking forward to hearing how the FF conversion goes!

-Alan

Alan,
I am glad you joined in the conversation and that I can count on you to provide your honest input.

And thanks to everyone else who provided their input and opinions to this thread.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Hi all,

Stump, since you are set on a full-floater (to do away with the c-clips) and need to stay with an off-set rear diff, I think using a 80 Series rear axle assembly might be the way to roll (pun intended! .)

They are available relatively cheap, and you might be able to use your existing Air Locker in the 80 diff (can't quite remember the differences.) And this will be stock Toyota parts, not a mix of factory and aftermarket.

Regards,

Alan

Wanted to bring this good point up again. Even though you'd have to cut all of the link brackets off of the 80 housing, re-do your spring perches and re-do your trac-bar mount, I bet it'd still be cheaper, and easier, than modifying your current housing to be a FF. In addition, you'd get the option to buy used FF axle shafts from just about anyone.

It's a great route. I tend to gravitate towards mods that involve adapting other vehicle's factory "systems" to your truck, so that tracking parts down is significantly easier.

 

[jstncse]

The WMS to WMS is 59.5" LCWizards brackets are great, the theory is that you can just drive them onto the axle after removing the backing plate and cutting that flange off. I found that they do not self align and it requires some due diligence on the part of the installer to make sure they are square but is quite doable using standard equipment in your garage.
I used the Marlin seals and the seal block provided by LCWizard and it does a fine job of separating the 90wt from the wheel bearing grease but I would recommend having a set of spindles machined to accept the factory full floater oil seal. The Nitro axles have a sealing surface for the factory seal and you have to remove material from the spindle anyways to clearance for the axle shaft. If you need measurements for that I have an 80 rear housing sitting here that I could measure.
The 80 housing is a good alternative but the track will be ~6" wider that your current front axle and 4" wider than the axle you are planning to build.

I'm using a Marlin toybox coupled to the original Toy 4speed and powered by a Mercedes diesel.

 

[Stumpalama]

Wanted to bring this good point up again. Even though you'd have to cut all of the link brackets off of the 80 housing, re-do your spring perches and re-do your trac-bar mount, I bet it'd still be cheaper, and easier, than modifying your current housing to be a FF. In addition, you'd get the option to buy used FF axle shafts from just about anyone.

It's a great route. I tend to gravitate towards mods that involve adapting other vehicle's factory "systems" to your truck, so that tracking parts down is significantly easier.

Except that with an 80 axle I would be 63" in the rear and 59.5 (with spacers) upfront. And I am still running stock (albeit thicker) inner axles. The chromos, from my research, are a solid upgrade to stock axles. They are a bit spendy, but so were the ARB's, the Orion T-case and other mods I've done to my rig. The value of the investment will be in their longevity, peace of mind and increased time and commensurate reduction in time and frustration pulling an entire axle apart to replace a broken shaft.

I too like adapting factory systems to fit my needs and I have this irrational compulsion to build my truck in the "spirit" of how I think Mr. T would have adapted the LC to the type of wheeling we do. So, following in that vein, the only things that won't be stock Toyota in the build are the axle shafts and the brackets; and if I f-up a bracket, well then something went really wrong and I wouldn't be able to address it until I got home anyway.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I hear you! Looking forward to it

 

[Stumpalama]

The WMS to WMS is 59.5" LCWizards brackets are great, the theory is that you can just drive them onto the axle after removing the backing plate and cutting that flange off. I found that they do not self align and it requires some due diligence on the part of the installer to make sure they are square but is quite doable using standard equipment in your garage.
I used the Marlin seals and the seal block provided by LCWizard and it does a fine job of separating the 90wt from the wheel bearing grease but I would recommend having a set of spindles machined to accept the factory full floater oil seal. The Nitro axles have a sealing surface for the factory seal and you have to remove material from the spindle anyways to clearance for the axle shaft. If you need measurements for that I have an 80 rear housing sitting here that I could measure.
The 80 housing is a good alternative but the track will be ~6" wider that your current front axle and 4" wider than the axle you are planning to build.

I'm using a Marlin toybox coupled to the original Toy 4speed and powered by a Mercedes diesel.

More great information, Thanks!

I asked Nitro about the shaft sealing surface last week and they said it is, as you said, in the stock FF location at the end of the spindle. Did you polish the shaft in the area of the inner seal?

I plan to run lcwizard's seal setup AND machine the spindle nose for the stock sealing surface. I have read where the spindle seal works, just OK and has a tendency to fail. I figure the inner seal will limit the oil intrusion and the spindle seal will manage the small residual amount. It will require periodic checks, initially, to monitor how much oil is building up in the spindle because that would be bad too. FROR also sells a seal that replaces the brass bushing in the spindle but I think that would be overkill.

You say you have to remove material from the interior of the spindle to fit the axle shafts? How much and is it because the Nitro axles are thicker than the stock ones?

 

[Stumpalama]

I read about people using seals like these in their FF builds: https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/Rock_..._1_2__x_1_4__Wall/i_0_0_4517/_144043-KIT.aspx anyone have experience with fitting/running these in a Land Cruiser axle?

 

[Mace]

the seam in the inner housing of a formed LC axle will prevent those seal from functioning properly.

Also, I seriously doubt the cruiser axle is anywhere close enough to round to work..

 

[jstncse]

The axle shaft seal area or the radius actually bound against the spindle. I think the factory spindle may be slightly shorter and the seal is radiused for the flange. I will look for pictures to explain if I have them.

The marlin seals work fine against the shaft without polishing the area.

 

[Stumpalama]

The axle shaft seal area or the radius actually bound against the spindle. I think the factory spindle may be slightly shorter and the seal is radiused for the flange. I will look for pictures to explain if I have them.

The marlin seals work fine against the shaft without polishing the area.

Cool. Thanks again. Of course, pictures are always helpful.

 

[jstncse]

Backing plate removed and flange cut off



Mounted, plumbed and welded



Spindle installed



Mocked up



I don't have any pictures of the axle shafts or the modification needed on the spindles. The shaft diameter was not the issue though, the end of the spindle was. Die grinder with a carbide bit made short work of the problem

 

[Stumpalama]

Love it. Those pics motivate me.