Experiences with Nitro Cut-to-length Chromoly FF Axles?

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Stumpalama

Stumpalama

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I am building my parts list for my FJ40 full float rear axle conversion and during my search for custom length axles, I keep coming back to the Nitro chromolys. I am running 37" PBR's with 4.56 gears and an Orion 4:1 case behind an H41 trans and stock 2F.

Anyone have anything good or bad to say about these?

My rationale for coming back to these is that the price point is good and they provide the benefit of being able to order them and have them on hand when measuring for inner axle lengths versus having stop the build to measure, order custom double spline axles, then wait 2-3 weeks for them to be delivered.

Cheers,
Stump
 
Hi all,

Stump, it would be a lot cheaper to:

A) truss the stock semi-floating LC rear axle tube;

B) carry a pair of spare stock axle shafts.

The "Monte Carlo" rear disc brake conversion helps retain a broken rear 'shaft until you can find a safe spot to jack up the rig and deal with it.
Yes, it can be messy swapping rear 'shafts but dino 75W90 isn't that expensive! ;)

Besides, if you make one area of your drive train bullet-proof, where will the weak link show up next? :worms: :eek: :mad:


Regards,

Alan
 
the rear caliper rule safe my ass one time I broke Tencha rear long shaft in the middle of the night in a nasty trail .. that allows me to winch me out of the critical spot and drive to a safe spot actually several miles out of the trail ..
 
Tapage said:
the rear caliper rule safe my ass one time I broke Tencha rear long shaft in the middle of the night in a nasty trail .. that allows me to winch me out of the critical spot and drive to a safe spot actually several miles out of the trail ..
Click to expand...

Hehe,I remember that night ;-)

Good times my friend.

Joe
 
I have run a CTL axle shaft in my narrowed fzj80 ff rear axle that I run under my fj55. I have HAMmered it on washboards and freeway speeding for 2 years now. no complaints from me other than cost. no leaking, no backing out. I drive at 20 MPH on a hard core 3 1/2 mile "road" leaving home and coming back home every day...
 
Alan,

I agree that would be cheaper $$-wise to leave it alone and carry spare axles, but where is the fun in that?

A little background on my rationale for this:
This Fall, I broke a stock SF on a trail and the subsequent 6 hours of pain that ensued is something I would like to avoid in the future. I have rear disks, which saved my ass, and got me the few miles back to camp.
However, I am glad I didn't attempt to fix this on the trail. The short side axle broke in a spiral pattern at the splines right inside the ARB actuator assembly, under the bearing cap area. When I attempted to pull the c-clip, the axle stub was mushroomed enough and the splines deformed enough to prevent the stub from moving enough to allow the c-clip to drop out, much less remove the splined stub.
att_1414470437818196.jpeg

So, off came both axles, out came the 3rd and the beating commenced. I beat the ever living sh!t out of that stub to remove it. The axle flopping around in the ARB wallowed out the sleeve and I now need to spend $$ and time to pull the 3rd again and replace that cap since it is weakened and will eventually fail (Vince Dooley from Forge Specialties, who helped me with the fix at camp and looked at the damage recommended replacing the cap). I also bent the caliper mount bracket and sheered one brake pin and bent the other; fortunately these were stocked at the local Autozone. I hadn't considered stocking spare brake pins in my trail kit, they are there now though.

Oh, and semi-float Chromoly axles are no longer available. :bang: The sole source for semi-float chromoly axles, Poly Performance, no longer offers them. :censor:

Thus my decision to pursue a FF solution. In short, I need stronger rear inner axles to handle the 37" tires and short of a custom axle/D60, this is the only viable solution I have come up with. I am certainly open to other solutions, if there are any out there.

I plan to use lcwizard's FF bracket with used spindles and hubs, FJ60 calipers and rotors and Nitro axles. The parts will run me just north of $1000 with new bearings, calipers and rotors. It isn't cheap, but my mentality here is you've got to pay to play and the peace of mind of having axles that can handle the stress and the reduced impact of a broken axle are appealing. Even if I had to pull the 3rd to remove a stub again, I could leave the wheels on, just pull the inners and remove the 3rd. The cool factor cannot be discounted either, of course.:grinpimp:

I am certainly open to other solutions, if there are any out there.

Notice the beers in the hand of the guy to the left of the photo. Another benefit of the camp fix.
att_1414470337615165.jpeg


Cheers,
Stump
 
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14 bolt FF (with Solid Industries 6 lug hubs) is probably the easiest way to get what you want, versus throwing money at a SF Toyota axle to stand up the abuse. It's nice to keep things Toyota, but that also means $$$. Find an AAM 10.5 from a later model GM 3/4T if you don't want to hassle with converting to a disc brake setup.
 
hman913 said:
14 bolt FF (with Solid Industries 6 lug hubs) is probably the easiest way to get what you want, versus throwing money at a SF Toyota axle to stand up the abuse. It's nice to keep things Toyota, but that also means $$$. Find an AAM 10.5 from a later model GM 3/4T if you don't want to hassle with converting to a disc brake setup.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't considered a 14 bolt, so I have done zero research on them.
I'm curious as to how that is cheaper. I am not trying to be dismissive; I am ignorant to the 14 bolt world. Do they come with 4.56 gears? To follow down this path: Assuming the gear ratio matches my front axle, I'm going to have to buy the axle, seals and bearings (maybe) but seals for sure, source a pinion flange to match my DS, pay to have the axle offset as I am not going to run an offset T-case to a centered axle, buy caliper brackets and rotors and calipers too. Would this add up to less than $1K.

I can cut and weld square stock if I need to beef up the housing, but I am not to worried about the housing, it is the inners that are the weak link and an M-Fer to deal with when they break.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I hadn't considered a 14 bolt, so I have done zero research on them.
I'm curious as to how that is cheaper. I am not trying to be dismissive; I am ignorant to the 14 bolt world.
14b's have been used by GM for quite awhile, so they're not hard to find at all. When I bought mine, all the locals were trying to sell them for $500+. I drove a couple hours and picked one up with 4.10's (which match my front FJ60) for $250.

Do they come with 4.56 gears?
If I remember correctly, the CUCV axles (military 3/4T with D60 and 14b) have 4.56's. If you find one without the correct gear set, post a wanted on Pirate. Someone will have what you need.

To follow down this path: Assuming the gear ratio matches my front axle, I'm going to have to buy the axle, seals and bearings (maybe) but seals for sure, source a pinion flange to match my DS, pay to have the axle offset as I am not going to run an offset T-case to a centered axle, buy caliper brackets and rotors and calipers too. Would this add up to less than $1K.
Seals and bearings for these are cheap. Autozone, Napa, etc. will 95% always have them in stock (unlike some older Toyota axle parts). IMO there's no reason to offset the diff which a lot of people get hung up on, figuratively and literally. As long as the u-joints don't bind at either end of the driveshaft, they (the u-joints) don't care what plane they're operating in. Caliper brackets are cheap, either weld-on or bolt-on. Rotors and calipers again are standard GM off-the-shelf parts that any store will 95% always have on hand. All that will add up to less than $1k, but if you want to stay 6 lug wheels, you will either need to have the factory 8 lug hubs re-drilled or buy some new hubs from Solid. I'm running 6 lug hubs on my 14b because despite the other GM and Jeep stuff in it, it's still a Cruiser.

I can cut and weld square stock if I need to beef up the housing, but I am not to worried about the housing, it is the inners that are the weak link and an M-Fer to deal with when they break.
I have a hybrid rear (cruiser diff w/ mini truck outers) sitting on my garage floor that I originally built my 40 around, because I didn't want to deal with Cruiser c-clip axles... the axle is still for sale btw. I ended up going the 14b route because I knew it would be the last axle I would ever need.

All told I have about $1500 in mine which includes... 6 lug hubs, rotors, calipers, studs, hub seals and bearings, diff rebuild kit, Yukon spool, 1350 yoke, 13 bolt cover (to shave off 1" from bottom of housing) link brackets, truss w/ pinion support and coil spring brackets. Again it's not cheap, but how much do you want throw at a Toyota axle in hopes that it doesn't ruin your day on the trail? YMMW


 
Holy sh!tballs,those CUCV's are expensive!

You make a compelling arguement, But add another $1K for an ARB or cable/elocker and I could have bought a custom RS or Diamond axle wih the perches welded in the proper orientation to load my 3rd in for the same cost.

With switching to s 14B, there is a whole lot of risk of scope creep, whether it be 6 bolt hubs ($$$) or new wheels ($$), new track bar mount, new perches, gear swap (that alone costs $400).

At best, I think it's a wash. IMHO, I don't think it's throwing $$ at a Toy axle since there are many happily running them with chromos and some minor upgrades.

I do appreciate you taking the time to educate me on the 14B and I can see where they are a viable and strong upgrade, if one is taking on an almost total redesign of their drive line.
 
Just thinking out loud here... a custom housing would be awesome, but you still have the factory 3rd member and a good chunk of money for Dana60 (for instance) hubs, etc. to get to a full float. Or lotsa money going to Front Range Offroad for their Toyota FF kit. You might want to get in touch with Branik Motorsports, http://www.branikmotorsports.com/shop.htm about the possibility of custom SF Toyota shafts.

Obviously a 14b isn't for everybody, but I guess you need to look at what your "end" goal is with your rig. Bigger tires? SBC? @GLTHFJ60 opened my eyes to the beauty and majesty of the 14b, and I'm hooked. If you have any more questions I'm happy to help if I can. They're also stupid simple to set up gears for!
 
CCUV axle: $500-$1200:
Cable/air/e-locker:$800-$1200
Disk brake kit: $150+
6 stud hubs: $340 (ea?)
Narrow axle labor: $100-$200
Total: 2x's my current budget.

I spent some time looking at D60's to do some comparisons and it is obvious why they are so popular.

However, I think that I would easily double my budget in building my own D60.
 
Anything above $500 for a stock 14b, the seller is delusional I think. Solid hubs are $400 for the pair and narrow the track width 2.25", so you're left with ~63.75". Again all set up they're not cheap, but could be something you slowly gather parts for and swap over when you're ready?
 
No, I appreciate the discussion and learning about the D60. Are you running them front and rear? Are you running stock 35 spline inners?
I reached out to a couple custom axle builders and they are not real interested in doing SF chromo axles at a reasonable price. FF axle shafts are pretty easy to come by.
 
I see what you are saying about throwing $$ at a toy axle, but with this FJ40, 37's are the tallest I'll go and the only other possible upgrades in the drivetrain will be a 2FE and maybe, way down the road, a black box doubler or Atlas 4 speed t-case.
 
I'm running an SOA FJ60 axle up front with the 14b in the rear. I want to go Dana 60 up front eventually but I can't find a GM king pin locally. That will also mean a 3 link up front.

The next best thing for you I think would probably be a FF 80 series rear. Little wider track width for more stability, still Toyota obviously and would just need a little welding for leaf perches.
 
The FF disk conversion brackets from lcwizard add 4" to the track width, so I will be 59" in the rear and 59.5 (1.25" spacer to clear the rim BS) up front.
I have a leftover FJ62 axle that I may enlist down the road if the urge hits me. I would only need to swap out the longfield inners and notch the housing for the leaf springs to make it work.
 
Stumpalama said:
The FF disk conversion brackets from lcwizard add 4" to the track width, so I will be 59" in the rear and 59.5 (1.25" spacer to clear the rim BS) up front.
I have a leftover FJ62 axle that I may enlist down the road if the urge hits me. I would only need to swap out the longfield inners and notch the housing for the leaf springs to make it work.
Click to expand...
How many rear axle shafts have you broken? Keep in mind that axle shafts do wear over time. After you wheel on em a lot they slowly get fatigued from the twisting after many trails. They should be replaced every so often. If you have only broken original 30+ year old and who knows how many trails stock axle shafts, new original replacements may be all you need. Now if you have broken the old stock ones, replaced them with new stock ones, and you break those relatively soon after-then its time for a upgrade to chromoly or something. 37s and a 2f should not be beyond a cruiser fine spline pinion axles capabilities. But you can pick up a fj80 open diff rear axle for 250-300 bucks if you find you need to upgrade and chromolys. Those should be good for 40" plus tires and a fair amount of horsepower without chromolys in em. If you go 1-tons you gain in strength but loose offroad capability. A 1-ton axle is twice the weight of a Toyota axle. So if you do front and rear tons, you gain 500lbs. Thats a lot.
 
How do 1 tons cause a loss of off-road capability? Stronger internals (than Toyota) withstand higher horsepower and torque, larger tires, wider track width for stability, and increases unspring weight and lowers center of gravity which also helps stability.
 
White Stripe said:
How many rear axle shafts have you broken? Keep in mind that axle shafts do wear over time. After you wheel on em a lot they slowly get fatigued from the twisting after many trails. They should be replaced every so often. If you have only broken original 30+ year old and who knows how many trails stock axle shafts, new original replacements may be all you need. Now if you have broken the old stock ones, replaced them with new stock ones, and you break those relatively soon after-then its time for a upgrade to chromoly or something. 37s and a 2f should not be beyond a cruiser fine spline pinion axles capabilities. But you can pick up a fj80 open diff rear axle for 250-300 bucks if you find you need to upgrade and chromolys. Those should be good for 40" plus tires and a fair amount of horsepower without chromolys in em. If you go 1-tons you gain in strength but loose offroad capability. A 1-ton axle is twice the weight of a Toyota axle. So if you do front and rear tons, you gain 500lbs. Thats a lot.
Click to expand...

So, I F-ing HATE c-clip axles!! The axle that broke was, indeed, the original axle shaft and I put it in a tight bind when it went. However, I know exactly how many trails those axles have done since I am the 3rd owner, have owned it since 1997 and the second owner owned the truck since 1985.

My experience with the damage caused by the broken axle and the extra work and $$ that it caused makes the $1K investment seem worth it to me. Peace of mind while wheeling is priceless.

I only broke one birfield when running on 35's before I bought Longfields for my bump up top 37's. I could have kept the stockers in there and kept replacing the stock birfs until I ran out of spares, but that is false economy, just like keeping the stock rears on 37's and using up my stock of spares...which is now zero short sides and 1 long side.

This thread has devolved from the original topic of providing experiences with nitro chromoly axles, but I enjoy the discussion and different view points on the topic of axles.

Keep it coming.
 
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