PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Of course the 2F is worth keeping!
Don't underestimate the costs of a V8 conversion...
Don't underestimate the costs of a V8 conversion...
Engine Rebuild (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter e-man
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i was contemplating the v8 conv.
i like the eas of working on the 2f better.
more room
PabloCruise said:
i was contemplating the v8 conv.
i like the eas of working on the 2f better.
more room
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Plus a shop will quote you $10k easy to do the conversion...
e-man said:
Advance the timing a bit at a time so that it will just detonate on a hill, and then back it off a hair. There is close enough, and then there is perfect.
Do a compression test to see if the rings are worn. If you just need valve seals, pull the head, get it inspected, shaved and new seats and valves as req'd. Prolly $400-500. Try retorqueing the pan and side cover gaskets. I bet you could take some of the bolts out by hand. You HAVE to pay attention to these gaskets or they will leak.
A rebuilt engine will run the same if the carb and dizzy arent' tuned properly. Also retorque the manifold, that might be your air leak.
I think it is worth keeping and tuning/fixing up (as in some gaskets and seals) but thats my opinion and you know what they say about opinions..... everyone has one.
e-man,
You can probably get your 2F running pretty close to perfect for a lot less than a re-build. You say only 136K on it?
First, fix the vacuum leak.
Then, if you still want a re-build, do it locally. That MAF engine sure has good looking headers, but nothing else that a good machine shop can't do. And what do you think postage would run on that block? And do they want you to send them your core? I have heard at least one horrer story involving MAF and those Hi-Po engines. Try Search. Sure, any machine shop can bungle a build, but it's easier to deal with locals than someone states away. Find the best shop in your area, listen to them and you can't go wrong.
I built a slightly improved 6 last summer: 2F block/late F head, bored .50 over, balanced, RV cam, Federal-Mogul pistons, Sealed power rings, lots of head work, Jim C. etc...
Works nicely, no idea what horsepower is, don't care. Runs like a scalded Pig up the onramps. Cruise at 70? Not a problem.
"Otherwise I am just going to drop a V8 in."
You make it sound easy. Start simple. Fix the vacuum leak first.
You can probably get your 2F running pretty close to perfect for a lot less than a re-build. You say only 136K on it?
First, fix the vacuum leak.
Then, if you still want a re-build, do it locally. That MAF engine sure has good looking headers, but nothing else that a good machine shop can't do. And what do you think postage would run on that block? And do they want you to send them your core? I have heard at least one horrer story involving MAF and those Hi-Po engines. Try Search. Sure, any machine shop can bungle a build, but it's easier to deal with locals than someone states away. Find the best shop in your area, listen to them and you can't go wrong.
I built a slightly improved 6 last summer: 2F block/late F head, bored .50 over, balanced, RV cam, Federal-Mogul pistons, Sealed power rings, lots of head work, Jim C. etc...
Works nicely, no idea what horsepower is, don't care. Runs like a scalded Pig up the onramps. Cruise at 70? Not a problem.
"Otherwise I am just going to drop a V8 in."
You make it sound easy. Start simple. Fix the vacuum leak first.
- Thread starter
- #26
I know the V8 drop in isn't simple, but what I want to do regardless isn't either.
I just don't want to drop 4 grand on the 2f and then wish I had just dropped the 6 or 7 I expect it would take to put in a V8.
My goals I think are reasonable. I don't want to drag race it I just want to be comfortable driving and shifting through the gears.
If it could hang with my Tacoma that would be perfect. My Tacoma is heavier and has the stock 190hp motor and its performance is more than acceptable to me.
Pighead I thought of all of the points you brought up and was just wondering if anyone had strong convictions that the MAF engine rebuild is worth the dough.
This Thread is really gonna go astray now, but... Why the late F head on a 2F motor? I would assume that Toyota had figured out turbulence, VE, and other such important things better on the later head?
I just don't want to drop 4 grand on the 2f and then wish I had just dropped the 6 or 7 I expect it would take to put in a V8.
My goals I think are reasonable. I don't want to drag race it I just want to be comfortable driving and shifting through the gears.
If it could hang with my Tacoma that would be perfect. My Tacoma is heavier and has the stock 190hp motor and its performance is more than acceptable to me.
Pighead I thought of all of the points you brought up and was just wondering if anyone had strong convictions that the MAF engine rebuild is worth the dough.
This Thread is really gonna go astray now, but... Why the late F head on a 2F motor? I would assume that Toyota had figured out turbulence, VE, and other such important things better on the later head?
Tigerstripe40
SILVER Star
e-man said:
Putting the 'f' head on a 2f motor raises the compression for more power.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Sounds like a pretty consistent message here - the devil being in those details!
Good marketing can make a Pig's ear look like a silk purse! Fix your leaks and then you can make your 2F nice and purty like the MAF slicks...
Good marketing can make a Pig's ear look like a silk purse! Fix your leaks and then you can make your 2F nice and purty like the MAF slicks...
- Thread starter
- #29
The F head is designed for a smaller displacement engine though it would seem to me that it would be counterproductive. Would it not be best to have the 2f head milled a bit?
- Thread starter
- #30
I agree Pablo... It would seem most are telling me not to lose faith in the 2F.
e-man said:
Compression ratio is a ratio of cylinder volume to the combustion chamber volume. Smaller combustion chamber = higher compression = higher HP.
I understand you may be a capable mechanic, but have you ever thought of having a qualified cruiser mechanic look at your truck?
Unless something is very wrong, a 2F is a pretty easy engine to tune so that it runs reliably and smooth.
I don't really know much about tuning engines, but I've seen poor running truck after truck come into ULC, and leave running MUCH better simply because David knows what the hell hes doin with a cruiser motor. There are lots of people nationwide that have the same expertise.
I can pull and install engines, trannys, rebuild tcases all day long, but I cannot tune an engine nor diagnose a problem anywhere near as well or quickly as David can.
Example- My '74 F with poor compression (~115 across the board) runs 70-75 all day with 33" tires. It runs smoothly and always starts. It has a Jim C carb, all new tuneup parts, a late model Toyota Ignition and is well tuned. Next step for me is not a rebuild, but a turbo.
Unless something is internally wrong with your 2F you should be able to make it run like you want for much less money than a crate MAF or rebuilt engine.
I have driven a 2F with the works, than ran a holley carb, that had MUCH more punch than at least 2 of the V8J40's that I've driven. It threw you into the seat.
Working in a Land Cruiser shop, I get to drive a LOT of different cruisers. My preference is definatly a rebuilt 2F.
Just food for thought.
Unless something is very wrong, a 2F is a pretty easy engine to tune so that it runs reliably and smooth.
I don't really know much about tuning engines, but I've seen poor running truck after truck come into ULC, and leave running MUCH better simply because David knows what the hell hes doin with a cruiser motor. There are lots of people nationwide that have the same expertise.
I can pull and install engines, trannys, rebuild tcases all day long, but I cannot tune an engine nor diagnose a problem anywhere near as well or quickly as David can.
Example- My '74 F with poor compression (~115 across the board) runs 70-75 all day with 33" tires. It runs smoothly and always starts. It has a Jim C carb, all new tuneup parts, a late model Toyota Ignition and is well tuned. Next step for me is not a rebuild, but a turbo.
Unless something is internally wrong with your 2F you should be able to make it run like you want for much less money than a crate MAF or rebuilt engine.
I have driven a 2F with the works, than ran a holley carb, that had MUCH more punch than at least 2 of the V8J40's that I've driven. It threw you into the seat.
Working in a Land Cruiser shop, I get to drive a LOT of different cruisers. My preference is definatly a rebuilt 2F.
Just food for thought.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #33
CruisinGA calling me a capable mechanic is probably a stretch. My question really had nothing to do with how my cruiser currently runs although I did take a second to complain about it. The thread kept getting further and further off track from that point on. Hell even I am confused at what I was really asking at this point.
Basically I want the engine as big and powerful as it can get. That means boring it out, thus a rebuild. All I really wanted to know was if the MAF procedures were all hooey and if the Cruiser community felt that the 2f could be rebuilt as a viable engine. Which it would appear many think it can.
Flyinglow I get it that the F head has smaller combustion chambers than the 2f, but I would assume it also has smaller intake and exhaust valves. Seems to me Compression is Compression and if I can get to 9:1 or 10:1 with a 2F head I would be better off than the same compression in an F head.
Basically I want the engine as big and powerful as it can get. That means boring it out, thus a rebuild. All I really wanted to know was if the MAF procedures were all hooey and if the Cruiser community felt that the 2f could be rebuilt as a viable engine. Which it would appear many think it can.
Flyinglow I get it that the F head has smaller combustion chambers than the 2f, but I would assume it also has smaller intake and exhaust valves. Seems to me Compression is Compression and if I can get to 9:1 or 10:1 with a 2F head I would be better off than the same compression in an F head.
E-Man,
The simple answer to your question is yes MAF gets a lot out of the 2F. They sell a number of them. Occasionally there is a problem which they warranty, but all rebuilders have a problem occasionally. The problem with having them ship you a motor is if you need to ship the motor back to them to get repaired. just my $.02.
Call MAF or Email Steve-O and see if there are any in your area that you can take for a test drive.
The shipping of one of there motors is not cheap but it shouldn't be that bad as it would come via Truck not UPS. But hey also sell the parts for the rebuild separately as well
Most people on the boards point, including mine, is that a local shop could rebuild the 2F for you and do what MAF does. The 2F will never be a rocket ship but properly rebuilt can perforn well. There was a recent article in one of the 4 wheel magazine on HiPo 2f from MAF. I believe there was a link on MAF web Site.
Good luck in making a decision on which way to go. Most of us have been in your shoes, some go 2F some go 350. Some are Toyota purist some just want HP.
The simple answer to your question is yes MAF gets a lot out of the 2F. They sell a number of them. Occasionally there is a problem which they warranty, but all rebuilders have a problem occasionally. The problem with having them ship you a motor is if you need to ship the motor back to them to get repaired. just my $.02.
Call MAF or Email Steve-O and see if there are any in your area that you can take for a test drive.
The shipping of one of there motors is not cheap but it shouldn't be that bad as it would come via Truck not UPS. But hey also sell the parts for the rebuild separately as well
Most people on the boards point, including mine, is that a local shop could rebuild the 2F for you and do what MAF does. The 2F will never be a rocket ship but properly rebuilt can perforn well. There was a recent article in one of the 4 wheel magazine on HiPo 2f from MAF. I believe there was a link on MAF web Site.
Good luck in making a decision on which way to go. Most of us have been in your shoes, some go 2F some go 350. Some are Toyota purist some just want HP.
- Thread starter
- #35
I have read that article. I found another one that had the MAF 2F and a FI kit from Turbo City and they seemed impressed with performance. But I don't know how to guage their level of impressed. They did mention having to feather the throttle on take off to prevent wheel spin. That sounds good.
I am not a Toyota Purist, but I do think it would be cool to have as much of the Toyota as possible left in it when I am done. I would like to have a reasonable amount of HP too. 135 I believe is what the 2F came with and that just won't do. The 2f is a pretty good sized motor.
I am not a Toyota Purist, but I do think it would be cool to have as much of the Toyota as possible left in it when I am done. I would like to have a reasonable amount of HP too. 135 I believe is what the 2F came with and that just won't do. The 2f is a pretty good sized motor.
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You are semi-correct sir.
incorrect: The valves are all the same size for F/2F/3F.
correct: The 81-end 2/3F heads are the best. Tight combustion chamber, lots of squish area, good sized ports w/ some swirl geometry, flat pistons.
- Thread starter
- #37
I just saw the Tech Article with the 3F head on a 2F in an FJ62. Interesting!
e-man said:
The max you can bore it out is .060 over and this gives you about a 3% increase in displacement. This is a spit in the bucket as far as performance goes.
If you are convinced that you have to have a lot more performance, go turbo or V8; everything else is just fiddling around with an engine that does not have a good volumetric efficiency to begin with because it is a 60 year old design.
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Pin_Head said:
Pinhead is right. There simply is no comparison of power output between a 4.3L 12valve engine and a 5.8L 16valve engine. 33% more valve area and 35% more displacement.
Pinhead: do you have a source for 1.5mm O/S pistons anymore? All of my sources have dried up. Biggest I can get lately is 1mm
FJ40Jim said:Pinhead: do you have a source for 1.5mm O/S pistons anymore? All of my sources have dried up. Biggest I can get lately is 1mm
I haven't rebuilt an engine myself for 20 years. The thrill has worn off and my machine shop does a good job for a reasonable price and they guarantee their work. The factory lists 1.5 MM OS pistons, so I would guess that PacLift might have then because they have OEM parts.
