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Engine Rebuild

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by e-man, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. e-man

    e-man

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    Does anyone have an opinion or experience with the Man-A-Fre rebuilt High-Performance 2f Engines?

    Is the Crank Alignment thing a legitimate selling point or is it bologna or something that most modern machine shops do anyway? They also reference a 5 blade carbide valve seat grinding machine that is superior to common methods that I wonder about.

    If I stick with the 2f the plan would be a rebuild, bored out as much as possible, decked head for higher compression and a TBI.

    I am almost ready to give up on the 2f completely. If I could somehow get a 2f to run reasonably smooth and drive me down the highway at 70 without having to shove the accelerator down as far as possible I would be happy. If I could realize ~200hp out of the engine I would be ecstatic.
     
  2. petescoffee

    petescoffee

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    First all welcome to the board.
    You will not get ~200hp out of a 2F. You could try some Nitrous for a short boost but that may only work once.

    I know a couple of people with the MAF 2F HiPO. The engine runs well. One of these people has installed the TBI and has been happy with it. There has been a few engines that have had to have warranty work done to them by MAF, One of them is someone I know, and MAF took care of whatever the problem was and it has been fine ever since.

    IF you add up the cost of the MAF HiPO motor and the TBI you could have somene install Chevy 350 for you and have closer to the horsepower you are looking for.

    The 2F can run smoothe when properly tuned. I don't think I could do 70 mph in my 2F powered FJ40 nor would I want to. If you want to stay 2F and get all you can out of it send it to a good machine shop and have it rebuilt. Have the shop deck the block, shave the head. Just rebuilding your 2F may restore a lot of the power you are lacking (This said not knowing how many miles are on your 2F or the condition).
    To work with what you have start with a compression check perhaps you just need to tune the engine and have the carb rebuilt.

    Welcome to the board. Try the search engine under rebuilding 2F or 2F and you will find lots of information on rebuilding motors etc.
     
  3. e-man

    e-man

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    I am skeptical of the MAF engine rebuilding practices being significantly superior to a plain old rebuild and would need much reassuring before considering it an option. I would also probably get the TBI from CustomEFIs at a fraction of the MAF cost. I guestimated 4 Grand would suffice a 2f rebuild and TBI. If the consensus is there is no way I can get near 200HP from a 2f then that makes my decision easier.

    I really don't want to stick Chevy stuff in my Toyota, but will if I can't make it not completely aggravating to drive on the highway with the 2f.

    I can do 70 now, but I have to stand on the gas pedal to make it happen. It was easier to get going that fast before I put new tires on. I went from 31x10.50 to 33x12.50 and highway driving is the only place I can tell the difference. It is much harder to shove those tires through the air and across the ground.
     
  4. Tigerstripe40

    Tigerstripe40

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    A propely built 2F CAN push 35" mt/r's around on the freeway at 75 mph.
    FI you want V8 acceleration out of a 2F, you will never get it.

    BUT a 2F can be built up nicely enough that you won't want a V8.
     
  5. petescoffee

    petescoffee

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    What axle ratio's do you have? You may be able to recap your tire size buy changing gears.
     
  6. e-man

    e-man

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    I have 4.11s It is a 78FJ 40.

    I know there aren't many options when it comes to 2f Performance, but all I am asking for is about 45HP per liter. That should be doable I would think.

    Exactly my point Tigerstripe. I would like to get the 2f to the point where I don't want to swap a v8 in there.

    My engine is only a little tired and in need of a rebuild mostly because it is leaking from every possible orifice.

    This is my struggle - spend the money to do a decent 2f build or just skip it and get a v8 for not too much more money. Any newer model Chevy V8 is gonna have tons more HP and Torque than is necessary to make me happy.

    I have also considered getting a much smaller and incredibly lighter Tacoma 3.4 and swapping it in there. The Tacoma motor can easily make in excess of 260hp and there is a plethora of performance stuff for it. I have seen a 4runner with that motor that was making nearly 1000hp with some great big ol turbos on it and more than likely some NOS.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2005
  7. e-man

    e-man

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    This thread got derailled a bit.

    Basic question:

    Are the MAF rebuild procedures worthwhile or more importantly worth the money.

    Spawned an additional question.
    Can anyone vouch for a 2f that is making anywhere near 200HP.

    By the way thanks for the input PetesCoffee and Tigerstripe.
     
  8. Tigerstripe40

    Tigerstripe40

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    E-man,

    Where are you located?
    IF you are within the vicinity of Salt Lake, I'd liek to invite you to drive my truck. I also know of a GOOD machine shop for you to take your block to, they are the people that built mine, and I have been MORE than happy with it, but I admit, it's no V8 killer.

    I can understand the money struggle issue.
    Drive a V8 powered FJ40 and see if you like it.
    I didn't like it, so I rebuilt the 2F.

    I did my 2F for around $2500 - 3000. THat includes machine shop work, new parts, Jim C rebuilt carb, Non-USA performance distributor, new header the works.

    Yeah, I know that can get you a start on a V8 conversion.

    Mark W is the Perf 2F guru. Talk to him about the necessary mods. IIRC, a 5 Angle valve job is a waste of money. 3 Angle will do JUST fine for the RPM's that a 2F can sustain.
     
  9. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

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    Go turbo or V8. I am skeptical of getting 200 hp from a 2f by just fiddling around.

    PS. My bone stock 2F will do 70 MPH all day, no problem. Who needs more?
     
  10. e-man

    e-man

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    I am in Fort Worth Tigerstripe. Thanks for the offer though. I would definitely like to drive an FJ40 that was in top running condition.

    Pin_Head I wanted to do more than just fiddle. Everything that could be done to a 2F short of Forced Induction I wanted to do. Rebuild, Bored over, TBI, Cam, Electric Fans anything possible to free up the engine.

    I can do 70 but it is way too much effort. If I have to slow down because somebody is doing something stupid it takes me miles to get going 70 again.
     
  11. zebrabeefj40

    zebrabeefj40

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    Sounds like you might just need to tune and adjust your current 2F back to good running condition. Adjusting the valves back to spec can do wonders for performance of a 2F. I'm with Pin_Head on this one; my stock 2F can cruise 70-75 all day long on 33x12.5 tires. If I couldn't do that while commuting in Boston I'd have been roadkill!

    You didn't mention if your motor is desmogged or not. If you still have all the smog gear you probably need to replace ALL the vacuum lines in the engine bay. I have found that doing that solves a whole bunch of random performance issues.

    In a nutshell, before you toss the 2F give it a good tune up (cap, rotor, plugs, wires, filters, check timing, adjust valves), replace the leaky gaskets and then the old vacuum hose. Get it back to a well tuned stock motor then see what it really needs. May be fine after that...

    HTH,
    Nick
     
  12. 2badfjs

    2badfjs

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    i did a rebuild on a 78 2f

    copied the MAF motor
    .40 over
    rv cam
    weber 38mm
    jacobs wires
    mallory coil and dual point dizzy
    2 1/2 flowmaster exhaust
    electric fan
    i would be willing that it's prolly close to the 200hp
    this set up runs great!!!!
    very please with performance,acceleration(off the line and on the hwy)

    that's my opinion ;)
     
  13. ken_79-fj40

    ken_79-fj40

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    That's about what mine is too. Not bored out, not sure what cam it has (probably stock) but with a desmogged 2f with a weber/downey header/ mallory dist, it seems to hold it's own no problem. My truck even has the taller 3.70 gears and I effortlessly cruise at 70-75mph on 33's. I'm on the fence about the whole V-8 thing myself, I even have a tbi 350 sitting in my garage. But I'm actually pretty happy with my 2f, it's just burning a quart of oil about every 500 miles. So i'm thinking rebuild.
     
  14. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise

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    e,

    What are your compression numbers?
    Just because you are leaking out of every orifice does not mean you need a rebuild!
    It prob means you need a new oil pan, R&R the gaskets on the front cover, side cover, valve cover, etc.
    How 'bout your carb and dizzy? Have they ever been serviced?

    I'm running 4.11 and just got 33's on. I'm sure I'll be rolling 70 w/ no problem to my local Cruiser club meeting tonight.

    I had Jim C. freshen the carb and dizzy and she runs strong now.

    I am on a rebuilt 2F (~25k miles). Funny thing is the machine shop screwed teh oil squirter in too far, so that leaked. They used to old pan, and that leaked too!

    Fixing leaks, getting the carb & dizzy dialed in and tuning your junk will cost a LOT less than a rebuild or a V-8 swap.

    The devil is in the details. A V-8 will run like poop in your 40 as well if not dialed in...
     
  15. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise

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  16. FLYINGLOW

    FLYINGLOW

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    e-man heres my opinion: Check your compression, if its good then set your valves, change your valve cover, side cover and oil pan gaskets with the engine in place. Take your distributer apart and make sure the breaker plate is rotating properly with the vacume advance (or retard, what ever). You could even pull the front cover off and toss in a cam while your at it and a front crank seal. Just don't go to lumpy, the TBI doesn't like it. If you still want to, throw on the TBI. Oh, ya, header too if you don't have one on already. Those gaskets are only $40-$50, so you won't have thrown too much money at it if you do yank it for a rebuild. The only other major place for the engine to leak is the rear main seal, PITA without pulling the engine or tranny/xfer.

    I have a TBI on my 40 with a rebuilt engine. It'll do 70 indicated on the speedo (36" tires give approx 20% over drive too).
     
  17. FLYINGLOW

    FLYINGLOW

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    Hey PabloCruise I didn't mean to write the same stuff as you, I was writing at the same time.

    I was amazed at the condition of my dizzy when I took it apart for the TBI swap. I wish I'd tried all this stuff back then. Ya just gotta stay on top of it all. Constantly go over the engine retorqueing the cork gaskets too.
     
  18. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise

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    No prob! I really like the feel of my 2F after the carb and dizzy got freshened up!

    Coming to Moab next year?
     
  19. e-man

    e-man

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    Thanks for all the input guys.

    I know what my performance problem is right now to get the 2f back to original running condition, I have an airleak somewhere near the carburetor.

    1978 2F
    136k miles or so.
    De Smogged
    Headers
    When I got it I replaced the Coil, Wires, Cap, Rotor and Plugs.
    PO put some sort of purple fancy looking Igntion module.
    Aisin carb has recently been rebuilt.
    Vacuum advanced functions.

    I set the timing with my ears and a close guess because the needle that is supposed to be in the middle of the timing window is either broken off or I just don't know what I am looking at. The timinng seems to be close enough as it starts and runs ok.

    I can adjust the air leak somewhat with the choke and that is how I have been driving it around.

    The Engine leaks from EVERYWHERE! Internally too. If it sits for a bit after running I think Oil is leaking past the valves and into the cylinders because it burns off a lot of oil when it first starts up.

    I don't deny that I probably need a valve job and that the carb is way out of wack. I want a perfect running motor and thus I will get it rebuilt IF the 2f is worth keeping. Otherwise I am just going to drop a V8 in.
     
  20. bonzai

    bonzai

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    Sound like a crate motor is the way to go

    Sure it would be nice to have a yoat motor in a yoat.

    But your goals call for a new motor.