Engine help in Santa Clara (1 Viewer)

[medtro]

Helping a friend in Santa Clara with 2006 LX470. He had rough idle and engine made clicking noise on driver side. He had it towed to a shop. The shop called back with "Spark plug blew out and damaged the cylinder, piston is damaged. It looks like the piston was hit with a ball peanut hammer." There is no piston or cylinder damaged picture. The shop told him he needs a new engine. I don't believe the piston is damaged unless there is proof. Looking for shop or someone who can work on this in Santa Clara area.

 

[John McVicker]

Not certain they make them small enough, but maybe a bore scope to get inside the spark plug hole.

And even it it did what the say it did…that in itself does NOT mean you need a new engine. Far from it.

 

[nissanh]

Does the spark plug still has its ground electrode (the picture is not clear to see it)? If this is still on the plug, what else could fall into the piston to damage the piston? Yes, use an inspection camera to confirm.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

There's USB cameras available on Amazon for not much money at all. But, you'll point out that's not what you asked. I'd hit up the clubhouse section too, see what shops are recommended.

 

[Rhetoric]

This thread may be of use.

If anything dropped into the combustion chamber while the engine was running it most certainly damaged the piston and the cylinder walls. Even the finest particles can do damage.

Your photo shows a spark plug missing the electrode and a destroyed coil. Either have the shop show you a pic or boroscope yourself, but that motor will likely need some work to run again.

 

[2001LC]

If shop said piston damaged, they likely scoped. Strange no picture!.

If not damaged now. It will likely be, after the most common fix.

Darn I sure wish we could get the word out to more.

Ticking time bomb TICK TICK TICK: Spark plugs Alert Alert Alert!

TICK TICK TICK POP POP POP is a ticking time bomb, often mistaken as exhaust manifold crack or gasket leak leak. ALERT, ALERT, ALERT: Spark plugs are working themselves loose. "Walking Out" Then blowing out of head, taking their female threads of head with them! Very damaging! You think TICK...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[vipergrhd]

Don't rush into anything for now, if the current shop have no borescope find a dealer or shop that can verify that cylinder is damaged. Here is my suggestion, try getting a compression reading if reading is acceptable have the spark plug hole repair with a good quality insert so a spark plug could be treaded and get a new coil. If the electrode did drop in the cylinder chances are it already spitted it out unless it wedge itself in the piston or the cylinder head, damaged on top of the piston could be minimal but damaged to cylinder wall is end game. A good borescope is needed in able to see the damaged don't let the mechanic jump the gun a really good mechanic can determine and give you a good diagnosis with proper tools.

 

[abuck99]

If shop said piston damaged, they likely scoped. Strange no picture!.

If not damaged now. It will likely be, after the most common fix.

Darn I sure wish we could get the word out to more.

Ticking time bomb TICK TICK TICK: Spark plugs Alert Alert Alert!

TICK TICK TICK POP POP POP is a ticking time bomb, often mistaken as exhaust manifold crack or gasket leak leak. ALERT, ALERT, ALERT: Spark plugs are working themselves loose. "Walking Out" Then blowing out of head, taking their female threads of head with them! Very damaging! You think TICK...

forum.ih8mud.com

Yeah seems to happen more and more often and not sure why the mods have been resistant to adding it to the FAQ/ Problem Diagnosis or a new heading with reorganized threads under Preventive Maintenance: sparkplugs, heater T’s etc

 

[medtro]

Thanks for all the input. The shop didn't scope it. We asked for piston pictures and the shop said their camera is too big to get in there. The shop said about 2" of the coil got into the engine. The plan was to get another shop to look at the engine, hence I started this thread.

 

[tmils470]

There is a company that specializes in blown sparkplugs. They are big with the Ford modular crowd. I have a V10 With 285k miles on It and they are the only people I trust with the plugs. Never had a blown plug. They just change them for me as PM every 80K-100K miles.
They are in San luis Obisbo CA or near there. They do all work on your site. They can do any motor. Believe it is Blown Sparkplug.com.
I bet they have a borescope or can determine the engine condition. It is what they do. do not condemn the motor until you get the new plug in and run it. The combustion chamber is a very active area. The velocity of gases flowing through would probably carry out most particles or plug chunks in short time.

 

[MountaineerLC]

If shop said piston damaged, they likely scoped. Strange no picture!.

If not damaged now. It will likely be, after the most common fix.

Darn I sure wish we could get the word out to more.

Ticking time bomb TICK TICK TICK: Spark plugs Alert Alert Alert!

TICK TICK TICK POP POP POP is a ticking time bomb, often mistaken as exhaust manifold crack or gasket leak leak. ALERT, ALERT, ALERT: Spark plugs are working themselves loose. "Walking Out" Then blowing out of head, taking their female threads of head with them! Very damaging! You think TICK...

forum.ih8mud.com

I feel like the only proper way to repair it is to pull the head and install the Time-Sert on the bench. I can't think of any other way to reliably make sure no shavings fall into the combustion chamber and eventually kill the engine. Big PITA and big $$$ unfortunately.

 

[2001LC]

I feel like the only proper way to repair it is to pull the head and install the Time-Sert on the bench. I can't think of any other way to reliably make sure no shavings fall into the combustion chamber and eventually kill the engine. Big PITA and big $$$ unfortunately.

Agree! Russian roulette, any other way.

To date: ALL I've seen done with head on. That I checked, I've found compromised compression. But they still run. How long before rough idle, some power loss and or smoke only time will tell.

 

[medtro]

Agree! Russian roulette, any other way.

To date: ALL I've seen done with head on. That I checked, I've found compromised compression. But they still run. How long before rough idle, some power loss and or smoke only time will tell.

Can you share the compression numbers? How much difference compare to others with good spark plug holes? More than 10%?

 

[2001LC]

They vary, but typically fail and always lower.

FSM has failure at max of 14 PSI differential, and or below minimum of 142. We get a little lower reading in the miles high city, than sea level. But I still call it a failure if either or both do spec by the book numbers.

• In one I recalled who's, I just pulled up notes on his 01LX from SoCA.
• 
  
• 151K miles: Time cert #6 cylinder done in CA at VH Stockton CA shop, well known in mud.
• 
  
• 155K miles: Failure #6 Compression test 160PSi (engine hot, charger hook to battery at 100amp, t-body open full, fuel pump off), wet 190, leak down 38%. Other cylinders average 182PSI. 22 PSI difference #6 to average of others FAIL
• 
  
• Owner logging fuel trims 155k to 190K. LTFT has been increase over time. Idle becoming rougher over time.
• 
  
• Remarked, minor smoke at tail pipe reported at times!

I've never done a time-cert or had a blow out, as I'm big on replace spark plus with any start up tick or if history unknown.
Today I do have a very cool 360 degree joystick bore scope, and will be looking at cylinder much more often.

Be very interest to see this (OP) cylinder now?

 

[medtro]

I feel like the only proper way to repair it is to pull the head and install the Time-Sert on the bench. I can't think of any other way to reliably make sure no shavings fall into the combustion chamber and eventually kill the engine. Big PITA and big $$$ unfortunately.

Might just go with new head if pulling the head.

 

[MountaineerLC]

Might just go with new head if pulling the head.

I certainly think that's a valid approach. I'm not sure how much additional $$ a head would be though.

 

[2001LC]

Cost to pull head & time-cert or replace head. May as well find (easier said than done) a good used engine to swap in.

The thinking has been, just do a time cert head in: Carefully do the time-cert in place, as temporary fix. Gets one back on road cheaply in just hours. This gives time to find a good engine.
Typically what then happens; They just keep driving with time-cert. Just not likely the 1 million mile 4.7L 2UZ non smoker, we all love so much. But will get you down the road.

 

[medtro]

Cost to pull head & time-cert or replace head. May as well find (easier said than done) a good used engine to swap in.

May end up with an used engine that had the same problem before.

The thinking has been, just do a time cert head in:
So why not carefully do the time-cert in place, temporally. Gets one back on road cheaply in just hours. Then time to find a good engine. Typically what then happens; They just keep driving with time-cert. Just not likely the 1 million mile 4.7L 2UZ non smoker, we all love so much. But will get you down the road.

Still looking for a shop that will inspect piston and cylinder wall before Time-sert install.

 

[awesomeissquid]

May end up with an used engine that had the same problem before.


Still looking for a shop that will inspect piston and cylinder wall before Time-sert install.

That is true that the used engine could have the same problem, but it’s why inspecting before purchasing is so important. I had to get a used engine from the LA area and drive it up for my swap.

I would honestly just get a borescope off Amazon and pull the spark plug yourself and get a look at it. Then you will know for sure what is going on. And post pictures. Curious to see more details.

 

[medtro]

That is true that the used engine could have the same problem, but it’s why inspecting before purchasing is so important. I had to get a used engine from the LA area and drive it up for my swap.

That is very nice that you can check it yourself before purchase. Not many people can.

I would honestly just get a borescope off Amazon and pull the spark plug yourself and get a look at it. Then you will know for sure what is going on. And post pictures. Curious to see more details.

I would do it if I am not 800 miles away from the vehicle. I don't think the borescope wire is long enough .