E Hill Adventure

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pappy

photosynthesizing
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Too far north. Too far east.
Some have already heard about my adventure over Elephant Hill in Canyonlands NP. After two real poopy weeks at work, I decided to get the heck out of town and enjoy Da'40. I left early Friday morning arriving at the visitor center around 3pm. By 4:30pm I was enjoying the Needles from campsite #1.

For those that have never been over E Hill. This trail is inside the National Park. It is considered easy, from a rock crawling/4 wheel perspective. Even so, E Hill will get your attention if you have never done a trial like this. It also has the ability to plaster a huge grin on your face. It starts out in a parking lot, climbs to the top of a hill, then drops down the other side. There are a few rocky sections along the way to Devil's Kitchen where I stayed. A $30 permit is required and there are four sites tucked into the rocks. It also has two "outhouses" for your pleasure.

First the good:

This engine rocks. I had no problem grunting up anything Da'40 was pointed at. The gearing was just right, but a tad low for E Hill, which is good. First gear was used very little, and only cuz.

Driving down from Monticello to Gallup this truck purred like a pampered kitten. 65mph, then 70mph, then 75mph. Smooth as silk with throttle to spare. Discount Tire is not known for balancing large tires well, and mine were no exception. Before I left I stopped by TDS on 4th street and they spun them true. It made all the difference in the world at highway speeds. This truck steers straight with no effort.

Now the issues.

Power steering continued to puke. I replaced what I thought was the offending hose before I left. Clearly not the problem. It lost no fluid on the drive out. It wasn't until I hit the rocks that it started leaking. After thinking about it, I believe the problem might be the pump. Specifically the seal behind the pulley. Fluid is getting flung around the front of the engine and that is the only possible source I can think of. A second set of eyes will be needed to confirm.

The charcoal canister was filling up with fuel. It did this once before after I had just filled up. In this case it filled after the climb up E Hill. The port for the canister on the tank is at the rear of the gas tank, so instead of collecting vapor, it sucked straight gas. I have an idea for a fix.

I had an issue after climbing the hill, but on the way to the Kitchen. The engine starting bucking and running rough. I thought it was related to the charcoal canister. The other option was vapor lock. As some know the FJ62s retained the cool air fan from the FJ60s that blows air on the intake. After raising the hood for awhile the truck fired up and things were dandy. Except, when I fired up the truck this morning the problem remained for awhile, then went away. Which make me think it was something else.

Now for the big headache. I left Gallup, at a gallop ... 75mph. Truck was fine until I started to pull off at the Pilot truck stop for gas. The truck started bucking again. I limped into the parking lot and started problem solving. I talked with Mike and Ash. I was ready to accept a tow home. In the process, I installed my spare fuel pump to rule out a gas issue. No change. The truck had also cooled enough to rule out vapor lock. I then decided I was hungry and went to the Subway to think about things. In the process something in my head said look under the rocker-arm cover.

Tools out, cover off and guess what ... STUCK VALVE. The cylinder 1 intake valve was fully compressed. The rocker arm and push rod were flopping about. A screwdriver between the coils popped it up. This leads to three questions.

1) What caused it?
2) How can I prevent it from happening again?
3) Did I damage the valve/head?

I think the answer to #3 is yes. While the engine ran fine on the drive from Gallup to ABQ, it does have a miss at idle. Ryan says pull the head. I have a call into Tim who built the engine to see what he says I should do.

As you can see from the pic there was a chance of rain. The predicted day was Saturday, and yep it poured.
Devils Kitchen.webp
 
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How far is it and how much fuel did you burn from Monticello up to Canyonlands, over E-Hill, and back to Monticello?

-Mike-
 
Lots. Mileage sucks. I filled up in Monticello, went over E Hill, then filled up in Monticello. 116 miles, 12.9mpg that tank. For the entire trip I averaged about 13mpg, best was 13.5mpg.
 
As Steve will attest, the trip from Moab down to E-Hill and back is pushing it for a stock FJ40 fuel tank. Monticello is a lot closer to E-Hill than Moab. Were you carrying a Jerry can?

Pappy said:
For the entire trip I averaged about 13mpg, best was 13.5mpg.

That's not bad at all. Full grown 80s do about the same and worse with a head wind and A/C.

-Mike-
 
I was ready with the trailer Jon. Mike called me and when i got home, i prepared just in case. glad you got it home in 1 piece. ditto on getting it ready for next month!
 
Tools out, cover off and guess what ... STUCK VALVE. The cylinder 1 intake valve was fully compressed. The rocker arm and push rod were flopping about. A screwdriver between the coils popped it up. This leads to three questions.

1) What caused it?
2) How can I prevent it from happening again?
3) Did I damage the valve/head?

I think the answer to #3 is yes (most likely the valve/pushrod). While the engine ran fine on the drive from Gallup to ABQ, it does have a miss at idle. Ryan says pull the head. I have a call into Tim who built the engine to see what he says I should do.

I'd wait to see what Tim at DOA has to say, but it sounds to me like #3 is a yes. #1 and 2 are where the real questions are. I'd check the springs and rockers on that valve for burrs really carefully. I once had an airplane engine fail on me due to a newly overhauled engine (about 85 hours since overhaul) seizing a valve just like you described due to a burr on one of the springs.

That said, if it's otherwise doing allright, I'd maybe just replace that pushrod and see if your miss at idle goes away. I could see the pushrod being the point of failure as it comes into contact with the rocker each stroke harshly instead of the relatively smooth engagement caused by the cam lobe.

Dan
 
Were you carrying a Jerry can?

-Mike-

Yes, I had a 20L NATO on board. I have several projects before the Columbus Day Weekend. One is to get the mount made for the rear bumper. I think I might have also figured out a way to mount the Hi-Lift jack.
 
...I think I might have also figured out a way to mount the Hi-Lift jack.

i'm interested in seeing that. i need to do the same for mine.
 
Must have had a backup or been on the ground. I'd like to hear that story sometime.

Nope. Worst possible statistical place for an engine failure in a single engine airplane (shortly after takeoff). I'll tell you the story next time I see you. I am rather skilled at using my hands to demonstrate airplane things--here's an example... YouTube - AIRTIME - Jet Pilot Music Video ;)

/thread hijack done!

Dan
 
That's a pretty ambitious shakedown cruise given all the things you've done. Two suggestions:

Check the rubber seal on the fill cap for the PS pump reservoir. My 2F one used to do the same thing. It would be fine around town but once grunting on the steering in the rock it would puke PS fluid everywhere.

Your supposition about the flooded canister is probably correct. Again, I had the same issue on the 2F when I incorrectly reconnected the vapor lines. Depending on fuel level and angle it would randomly shudder and cough. I only figured it when I realized each time it happened I get a puff of black exhaust.
 
Worst possible statistical place for an engine failure in a single engine airplane (shortly after takeoff).

It wasn't you in 7212S was it? I remember some poor student took off toward Placitas from Coronado and about a minute later the engine swallowed a valve but the guy was able to make it back to the runway.
 
That's a pretty ambitious shakedown cruise given all the things you've done. Two suggestions:

Check the rubber seal on the fill cap for the PS pump reservoir. My 2F one used to do the same thing. It would be fine around town but once grunting on the steering in the rock it would puke PS fluid everywhere.

Your supposition about the flooded canister is probably correct. Again, I had the same issue on the 2F when I incorrectly reconnected the vapor lines. Depending on fuel level and angle it would randomly shudder and cough. I only figured it when I realized each time it happened I get a puff of black exhaust.

The top of the PS reservoir has remained dry so I don't think the cap is leaking (FJ80 cap BTW). Somehow the fluid is getting into the pulley and belts and getting flung all over the engine bay. Dan has a rebuild kit in will-call for me so I'm going to start there. I might also increase the cooling capacity on the return line.

I looked at the FSM last night. There is a fuel separator on the FJ62 and I seem to recall also on the FJ60 (rear quarter panel). Its job is to capture the fuel in just this situation and allow the vapor to reach the canister and return the fuel to the tank. In my case, the line runs directly from the tank to the canister. My solution is to tee into the vent on the fill neck. It sits higher than the tank.

What is interesting is on my 4Runner the line also runs from the tank directly to the canister, but the canister is mounted high on the firewall above the level of the tank. If I really stuff fuel in the tank on a hot day the canister will over flow. Most of the time it's not a problem.
 
That's a pretty ambitious shakedown cruise given all the things you've done.

Mike posted while I was writing.

Well, you are correct. I had only been driving the truck to work and made the one Elk Mountain run. In reality I should have made a few runs to the Puerco. It would have caught some of these issues (charcoal canister and power steering). I think the stuck valve would not have showed up. There was one other issue that also came up. The fan hit the shroud when I really torqued the engine (FJ60 fan is larger). I was able to tweak the shroud in camp, and it didn't repeat on the way out. I might need to acquire another shroud for modification.

Whether I was confidant, over-confidant, foolish, or brave is subject to debate. The stuck valve on the return home was the only serious issue. Everything else was meh and part of the shake-down process. This is especially true considering how much was involved in this project. I could have had a multitude of issues with suspension, steering, flex interference, etc. What failed were things unforeseen.
 
I looked at the FSM last night. There is a fuel separator on the FJ62 and I seem to recall also on the FJ60 (rear quarter panel). Its job is to capture the fuel in just this situation and allow the vapor to reach the canister and return the fuel to the tank. In my case, the line runs directly from the tank to the canister. My solution is to tee into the vent on the fill neck. It sits higher than the tank.
I "may" have a 60 fuel separator for you if that would make thinks easier. Is there provision on your tank for a raw fuel return line from the separator?

I also have a 60 fan shroud you are welcome to.
 
Well, you are correct.
I may be correct but can't stand in judgement. With less than 200 miles on the V8 install and the motor itself, we loaded up the truck and headed for Sedona for Christmas (did Broken Arrow) and then met the group for the Canyon de Chelly trip. Travelled with W & K late at night by ourselves on the trip out and back. A failure could have been a real problem given how friggin cold it was.
 
Sounds like an exciting trip. I hope you get your problems sorted out before the next Moab trip (and hope it's not too costly) Great pic, post up more to make us jealous!

I didn't take very many pictures. Sorry. Too busy driving.
E Hill Moon.webp
 
Jon:

You don't need me to tell you that is a beautiful truck.

As to the PS issues.... Are you having the issue more at low speed or high? I have been looking at a PS cooler (I've got one nearly identical to yours, just on the right side) and I'm kind of thinking about cutting a louver or two in the fan shroud to allow air to flow from the grill and through the PS cooler. On Dad's 40 there's maybe 1/2" of room between the radiator core and the core support in the front, so there'd be quite a bit of airflow.

I like your shakedown cruise. I put less than 50 miles on the faux-lux before I hit the road and went to Pagosa Springs and back. After that, I put on an exhaust and drove it to Seattle.

Greg: it was 733HF off of 22 at Double Eagle. I ended up landing on 4.

Dan
 

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