matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
Yep not bad almost double yours so I suspect a well built 1FZ has a lot more to offer. I'm sure you have more than 4 main bearings holding the crank up.
Dyno Results
- Thread starter CycloSteve
- Start date
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Yep not bad almost double yours so I suspect a well built 1FZ has a lot more to offer. I'm sure you have more than 4 main bearings holding the crank up.
Eagerly following this thread
Steve,
Any ETA for the exhaust dyno run? You ever consider getting LandTank's MAF, if so, maybe a final 3rd dyno run after doing the MAF....Hint hint(only because I plan on getting his MAF as well
)
Cheers,
Salue
Steve,
Any ETA for the exhaust dyno run? You ever consider getting LandTank's MAF, if so, maybe a final 3rd dyno run after doing the MAF....Hint hint(only because I plan on getting his MAF as well
)Cheers,
Salue
- Thread starter
- #23
Well no FedEx box today at the office, so it will not be this weekend. Also will be wheeling up in Tahoe next mid-week and weekend, so not that one either...may try do do the install during after-hours the following week, but that usually does not sit well with the family.
Have read some about the LandTank MAF, but not sure if I am ready at this point, or if that would complicate things with the current rich fuel dumping I have at 4000+ rpm. Need to find a local tuner who can crack into the ECM code and perhaps tweak the fuel maps via the OBD II, or look at a piggyback to do fuel management via the PC.
Also for those looking for the Dyno Logs, here are two.
http://emspowered.com/productdevelo...s/supercharged/CycloSteve_before_exhaust1.jpg
http://emspowered.com/productdevelo...s/supercharged/CycloSteve_before_exhaust2.jpg
Have read some about the LandTank MAF, but not sure if I am ready at this point, or if that would complicate things with the current rich fuel dumping I have at 4000+ rpm. Need to find a local tuner who can crack into the ECM code and perhaps tweak the fuel maps via the OBD II, or look at a piggyback to do fuel management via the PC.
Also for those looking for the Dyno Logs, here are two.
http://emspowered.com/productdevelo...s/supercharged/CycloSteve_before_exhaust1.jpg
http://emspowered.com/productdevelo...s/supercharged/CycloSteve_before_exhaust2.jpg
Subscribed. I have Landtanks MAF and will be needing an exhaust system.
alia176
SILVER Star
Steve,
What's your torque and hp at around 2,800 rpm?
Thanks.
What's your torque and hp at around 2,800 rpm?
Thanks.
from the group who originally tested my MAF with a wideband O2 the AFRs where you are seeing a rich condition improved quite a bit. From memory they went from around 8.6 to 10.8.
It will be interesting to see someone crack the MAPs through the OBDII port.
What is the AFR that people need to run for this motor at WOT and at idle?
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
X 2 on this question and just wonder if are the same for NA and SC engines .. ? thought around 11:1 @ WOT and 14.7:1 ideal at idle .. ( or less means more lean ? )
I believe idle is around 14.7. Now when talking about WOT I think it's different depending on whether or not the engine is normally aspirated or boosted.
I've only been concerned lately about the boosted number and even then I've yet to find a definitive answer.
Running rich helps keep the EGTs down and it protects the engine however a leaner mixture will produce more power.
The 8.6 value I posted is usually considered very rich and that was on both SC'd and Turbo'd engines.
I've read that a 10.8 AFR on a boosted engine is a good safe value but again there doesn't seem to be a consensus on that from what I can tell.
I've only been concerned lately about the boosted number and even then I've yet to find a definitive answer.
Running rich helps keep the EGTs down and it protects the engine however a leaner mixture will produce more power.
The 8.6 value I posted is usually considered very rich and that was on both SC'd and Turbo'd engines.
I've read that a 10.8 AFR on a boosted engine is a good safe value but again there doesn't seem to be a consensus on that from what I can tell.
Thanks for the info. I forgot to state boosted. I dont mean to thread jack, just brainstorming.
- Thread starter
- #31
The issue is that I am not sure that anyone can actually do the OBDII type of "flash" to our trucks for fuel and timing. You see so many other manufacturers where flashing a new program is common; it would be nice to find such a plug-and-play solution, or someone who has cracked Mr. T's code for customization for us too.
My daily-driver is an Audi, where there are multiple tuners who offer off-the-shelf solutions and custom programming, some of which even have OBDII programmers you can purchase and re-flash different tunes to your heart's desire (including back to stock for inspection purposes). Part of the idea behind OBDII was the ability for the manufacturer to be able to fix issues with the fuel and other systems via the port...which in theory opens the door for tuners to do the same with a performance-bent view.
I certainly will be looking to the Toyota community to see if there may be some cross-over knowledge from perhaps the folks tuning Supra's, etc. which can be applied to our applications.
Execllent thread Steve. Appreciate the info.
From what I've read our trucks seem to be particularly tough to deal with when trying common tuning practices to them. In the past I used to work on Japanese engineered equipment that used the same vendor that Toyota used on their controllers. The similarities between their controllers and our ECUs is obvious. Similar architecture and components.
Back then I was told the "ten" chips were not crackable. They were used for all the feed back circuits to secure their technology. These are the main processors in our ECUs as well.
Back then I was told the "ten" chips were not crackable. They were used for all the feed back circuits to secure their technology. These are the main processors in our ECUs as well.
It's not?
Thanks for sharing. Do you know what the advertised crank HP/TQ numbers are for the blower at 6 psi?
I did that same run at 3200rpms at a whopping 20 to 25 MPH , while helping kill all the bugs alone Rt 70 with the nice sooty diesel cloud pouring from my "90hp of Fury" 3B tuned for sea level
I did see 60+ mph , on the way down the other side
Wut? Does that mean I should stop using the rev limiter as a audiable shift light?!? (Anybody who has wheeled with me know that I'm not kidding... Especially when I was on thoseToyos!)
We all know the 1FZ-FE's love to sit on the rev limiter all day
YouTube - ????? ???‎
YouTube - ????? ??????‎
YouTube - ?????‎
RE: tuning Toyota chips/ECU-
I was browsing a book on tuning at the bookstore, and they had info on Toyotas, Tech Tom (TechTom?) was a Japanese company that had tuning programs for toyotas (MR2 and Supra, I think), and it looked promising, but a web search didn't reveal much. Anybody know anything about them?
I was browsing a book on tuning at the bookstore, and they had info on Toyotas, Tech Tom (TechTom?) was a Japanese company that had tuning programs for toyotas (MR2 and Supra, I think), and it looked promising, but a web search didn't reveal much. Anybody know anything about them?
- Thread starter
- #36
I think it may be time to split the thread if we are going to go over ECU tuning...
Here is the book Firetruck was referring to perhaps.
How to Tune and Modify Engine ... - Google Livres
Not too promising for an easy solution, but worth more digging.
Here is the book Firetruck was referring to perhaps.
How to Tune and Modify Engine ... - Google Livres
Not too promising for an easy solution, but worth more digging.
Agreed, lets keep this on the Dyno results
I thought we were. One of the first things noted was the very rich condition at higher RPMs.
Take that out of the results and what else is there to discuss?
Take that out of the results and what else is there to discuss?
The issue is that I am not sure that anyone can actually do the OBDII type of "flash" to our trucks for fuel and timing. You see so many other manufacturers where flashing a new program is common; it would be nice to find such a plug-and-play solution, or someone who has cracked Mr. T's code for customization for us too.
My daily-driver is an Audi, where there are multiple tuners who offer off-the-shelf solutions and custom programming, some of which even have OBDII programmers you can purchase and re-flash different tunes to your heart's desire (including back to stock for inspection purposes). Part of the idea behind OBDII was the ability for the manufacturer to be able to fix issues with the fuel and other systems via the port...which in theory opens the door for tuners to do the same with a performance-bent view.
I certainly will be looking to the Toyota community to see if there may be some cross-over knowledge from perhaps the folks tuning Supra's, etc. which can be applied to our applications.
Steve
A couple of comments here. First, the 80 ECU is an ancient beast, slow and not mod friendly. AFAIK, the Fujitsu 10 Series boxes are not programmable via OBDII port. As one that routinely tweeks turbo Motronic programming in Audis myself, the normally aspirated F10 boxes in the 80 aren't well suited for such mods. First major hurdle would be the lack of a MAP based input (found on Audi turbo Motronic to control on-boost) programming. As a rule, the japanese programming is MAF input (and in turbo apps - tabled programming on-boost), which has a lot of limitations. The Audi Motronic uses both MAP and MAF, but the MAF signal is an ignored table-profile input at WOT. With the F10ecu lack of the proper on-boost inputs, combined with the older architecture, the practical solution is to switch to a newer standalone EFI system.
WRT dyno results, I'd love to see a few more references of stock trucks to work up the DLL correction. Right now, it appears the 80 is pretty high in Drive Line Loss, like in the low 40% range. Looking at the turbo vs SC dyno comparisons is premature IMO, since the SC has a fixed boost profile with a stock pulley. IME on dyno runs with Forced Induction, 90% of increase in power comes from the amount of boost, less than 10% is programming differences. That said, AFR of 12:1 or below is usually not 'adding' power. As a rule (per Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management - Probst) 12.6:1 (lambda .86) is peak power and 15.4:1 is peak economy (lamda 1.05). That can change based on engine design, but IME/observation, usually only by +/-1.0 (save subaru turbos which I watched gain power on a dyno at 10.5:1).
I do agree in not getting stuck on the number but the 'gain' (found in the linked thread-before and after comparos). ATWHP numbers tend to be predicted much higher than they usually are... Bottom Line: ATW gains of 30%HP and 36% TQ is beyond significant with 6 hours worth of work, 6.5psi and no intercooler. BTDT
HTH and my .02
Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
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- Thread starter
- #40
Scott, I definitely agree.
Back to the original post, what we are looking for here are the Dyno results and what a given mod may provide (or what a stock truck is producing). Once my exhaust system is in, I will be posting an additional set of curves to see how much is gained (or lost) under similar conditions on the same dyno.
As a motor-head, I will be looking at further modifications down the line to help get more power, and perhaps more mileage if I am lucky. Up for consideration include the LandTank MAF, and tuning should that be necessary to sort out the fuel dumping at high RPM and load...since the 80 ECU is so far proving not an easy nut to crack, I may need to go the piggyback fuel management-route (modify the MAF signal to fool the ECU maps via a Splitsecond PSC1-001 Data Sheet).
Plenty of tweaks out there to help gain more power, I just want to always back things up with real data. I am lucky that there is a great dyno facility near me, and I only am charged $75 per session, as it is worth it to me to know what is really going on with the truck, not just via the butt-dyno.
BTW my Audi is actually a S/C 2.8 with the MAF sensor-type system (factory NA also)...ECM has been reprogrammed to accomodate, and I can do minor tweaks to the system via the OBDII, a dongle and my Laptop...just wish that flexibility existed for my Toy!
Steve
Back to the original post, what we are looking for here are the Dyno results and what a given mod may provide (or what a stock truck is producing). Once my exhaust system is in, I will be posting an additional set of curves to see how much is gained (or lost) under similar conditions on the same dyno.
As a motor-head, I will be looking at further modifications down the line to help get more power, and perhaps more mileage if I am lucky. Up for consideration include the LandTank MAF, and tuning should that be necessary to sort out the fuel dumping at high RPM and load...since the 80 ECU is so far proving not an easy nut to crack, I may need to go the piggyback fuel management-route (modify the MAF signal to fool the ECU maps via a Splitsecond PSC1-001 Data Sheet).
Plenty of tweaks out there to help gain more power, I just want to always back things up with real data. I am lucky that there is a great dyno facility near me, and I only am charged $75 per session, as it is worth it to me to know what is really going on with the truck, not just via the butt-dyno.
BTW my Audi is actually a S/C 2.8 with the MAF sensor-type system (factory NA also)...ECM has been reprogrammed to accomodate, and I can do minor tweaks to the system via the OBDII, a dongle and my Laptop...just wish that flexibility existed for my Toy!
Steve
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