Dual battery setup questions (1 Viewer)

[KLF]

Now that my rear bumper is pretty much done (for now), moving on to adding electrical goodies but I want to start at the sources first, get the foundation built, before I add any wiring. That means the dual battery system is next. I did a lot of searching here and on Expo Portal on wiring up the management options, but I am really having a hard time making a choice on what to use.

So far, I have an Odyssey 31-PC2150 AGM in a Slee tray for my primary battery. It's been installed for almost a year, no "magic diode" installed. I have a cheap voltage meter plugged into the aux socket, it generally reads 13.6-13.9 V when the truck is running. After shutting it off, I read 12.7-12.9 V at the battery. So I don't understand all the concern with hooking up an external charger occasionally.

I will be installing a Slee 2nd tray, and I still have the original lead-acid battery to go in there for the time being. My quandary is with which management system to go with. I've narrowed it down to 3 choices:

1. Blue Sea ML-ACR. This is my current favorite, mostly due to the simplicity. It has all the functionality I want, I would probably supplement it with a decent voltage gauge somewhere so I can monitor the batteries.
2. IBS-DBS. I like the flexibility, but that display seems like overkill, and I am having a hard time finding a good place to put it that it won't be "in my face" all the time. I might be tempted to leave it under the hood, assuming it is weatherproof enough.
3. Redarc BCDC1225D. Seems to be most expensive, not sure if it's better than IBS although I do understand the different methodology. Nice feature that it has the built in controller for solar, but that's a long way off for me.

What I kinda need is a feature comparison table so I can put them all side-by-side, but I haven't been able to find anything like this yet, specifically for a 200-series setup. I know I am over-complicating this, but any feedback is welcome.

 

[Markuson]

I actually find the display on the IBS extremely useful. But I run my fridge 24/7/365. Mine is mounted to the left of my driver seat on the floor....so no distraction while driving. The voltage indicator lights are only on when you press the button...so it’s not like they are always illuminated.

 

[KLF]

The voltage indicator lights are only on when you press the button...so it’s not like they are always illuminated.

Oh. I didn't know that. I assumed they were always on, since all the photos show it that way.

 

[elkeye]

Now that my rear bumper is pretty much done (for now), moving on to adding electrical goodies but I want to start at the sources first, get the foundation built, before I add any wiring. That means the dual battery system is next. I did a lot of searching here and on Expo Portal on wiring up the management options, but I am really having a hard time making a choice on what to use.

So far, I have an Odyssey 31-PC2150 AGM in a Slee tray for my primary battery. It's been installed for almost a year, no "magic diode" installed. I have a cheap voltage meter plugged into the aux socket, it generally reads 13.6-13.9 V when the truck is running. After shutting it off, I read 12.7-12.9 V at the battery. So I don't understand all the concern with hooking up an external charger occasionally.

I will be installing a Slee 2nd tray, and I still have the original lead-acid battery to go in there for the time being. My quandary is with which management system to go with. I've narrowed it down to 3 choices:

1. Blue Sea ML-ACR. This is my current favorite, mostly due to the simplicity. It has all the functionality I want, I would probably supplement it with a decent voltage gauge somewhere so I can monitor the batteries.
2. IBS-DBS. I like the flexibility, but that display seems like overkill, and I am having a hard time finding a good place to put it that it won't be "in my face" all the time. I might be tempted to leave it under the hood, assuming it is weatherproof enough.
3. Redarc BCDC1225D. Seems to be most expensive, not sure if it's better than IBS although I do understand the different methodology. Nice feature that it has the built in controller for solar, but that's a long way off for me.

What I kinda need is a feature comparison table so I can put them all side-by-side, but I haven't been able to find anything like this yet, specifically for a 200-series setup. I know I am over-complicating this, but any feedback is welcome.

If you like the flexibility of the IBS-DBS, but think the display is overkill; check out the IBS-DBR (Dual Battery Relay). The IBS Relay Booster Module is integrated in the IBS-DBR unlike the IBS-DBS.

IBS-DBR (Dualbatt.-Relay) - IBS

Extreme Outback Products may stock the IBS-DBR, although it is not listed on their website (extremeoutback.com).



See also:

IBS Relay IBS-DBR 200A 12V

 

[Markuson]

Oh. I didn't know that. I assumed they were always on, since all the photos show it that way.

Usually just your current charging rate shows...which is shown on the bottom left...with 1, 2, 3 or 4 lights. And the link indicator. But those 5 lights are not big deal. The main lights you’ve seen illuminated typically off.

 

[KLF]

What size is the wire that you ran from the big 200A relay to the batteries?

 

[cmck]

Usually just your current charge shows...which is shown on the bottom left...with 1, 2, 3 or 4 lights. And the link indicator. But those 5 lights are not big deal. The main lights you’ve seen illuminated typically off.

Agreed with several above ibs display times out after ~ 20 seconds and has not been an issue. I would not put it in the engine bay due to heat more than water. I have seen it installed in the glove box. I find it handy to fire up the display before I start the engine to see battery levels before the alternator kicks in. I’m sure redarch is nice but it’s new to the USA so I have no experience.

 

[TeCKis300]

It's been installed for almost a year, no "magic diode" installed. I have a cheap voltage meter plugged into the aux socket, it generally reads 13.6-13.9 V when the truck is running. After shutting it off, I read 12.7-12.9 V at the battery. So I don't understand all the concern with hooking up an external charger occasionally.

I'm going against the grain here and I have my suspicions that many are addressing symptoms of battery issues in the wrong way. Particularly, the issue of batteries not performing, and assuming that they are not getting fully charged. When the real problem is a general incompatibility of the vehicle charging system with AGM batteries, temps, and the charge profile "cooking" the battery causing them to fail and not hold charge. This is exacerbated by the high underhood temps that AGM battery particularly do not like. Charging should actually be halted beyond certain temps ~120F. The "magic diode" only served to more quickly kill the battery.

TLDR: Charge voltages are already too high given the underhood temps (charge voltage should be tailored based on battery temp). Sealed AGMs are not truly sealed and are valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batts. Achilles heal is that they don't like high temps and will out-gas electrolytes. Drying up and dying.

Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) Battery Information - Battery University

As with all gelled and sealed units, AGM batteries are sensitive to overcharging. A charge to 2.40V/cell (and higher) is fine; however, the float charge should be reduced to between 2.25 and 2.30V/cell (summer temperatures may require lower voltages). Automotive charging systems for flooded lead acid often have a fixed float voltage setting of 14.40V (2.40V/cell); a direct replacement with a sealed unit could overcharge the battery on a long drive.

 

[Mogwai]

I run option #1 and have had no issues, setup was straight forward. If I were to do it over I'd go w/ the Redarc but I don't recall it as an option when I was installing mine, and I would also not run an AGM battery (instead a lead acid deep cycle for the house battery and starting battery for the truck).

A comment about the wiring - I was able to find to a local store that sold "marine grade" electrical cable by-the-foot along with individual connectors. They also had a large crimping tool they let me use so I setup shop in their parking lot, cut and finish one end, mount, feed the wire around the to desired length, cut, install... wire by wire. Came out clean, no slack in the system, and got to "overbuild" the wire gauges based on run lengths, etc... there were also internet options to purchase custom cables, you'd need to know exact run lengths and connections you want prior to order.

I have a bunch of notes on my dual-batt setup which was based around the Blue Sea ACR, I can send if you go that route (my setup is a bit overbuilt to future-proof and includes a couple 100A fuse blocks, a 30A block, breakers + fuses). Cable i used = 1/0 Marine Cable; 4AWG marine for the 100AMP fuse box; 8AWG for the Rear 30AMP fuse box; 16 - 24 gauge for misc. **I don't think you need such low gauge wire w/ the Redarc option since the alternator isn't supplying the charge directly**

Edit: I found the process of planning out and installing my dual battery setup took me a lot more time than I would have expected. I also found that when all said and done it was not a cheap mod either.

 

[KLF]

Thanks @Mogwai that is very useful info. I may take you up on the offer for the notes.

Wish we could get that nifty bracket for the Redarc!

It appears that you can't manually link the batteries with the Redarc like you can with the Blue Sea or the IBS systems. That's kinda a high priority for me, seems like it is one of the advantages of having 2 batteries.

 

[Mogwai]

Thanks @Mogwai that is very useful info. I may take you up on the offer for the notes.

Wish we could get that nifty bracket for the Redarc!

It appears that you can't manually link the batteries with the Redarc like you can with the Blue Sea or the IBS systems. That's kinda a high priority for me, seems like it is one of the advantages of having 2 batteries.

Interesting. And the plot thickens...

 

[indycole]

You can have your cake and eat it too if you install Redarc's solenoid isolator along with the charger. It works perfectly.

Regarding the AGM in as the main... these days I'm in the same camp as @Mogwai and @TeCKis300 that a different type of battery may be a better fit. I, for one, can't seem to keep the X2 Power topped off without yanking it out, dragging it upstairs, and letting it marinate for 18 hours with the Optima charger. Perhaps there's something else going on but I haven't found any notable vampire currents, potential shorts, etc.

I had a series of standard lead acid batteries die in my Yukon while driving offroad which is one thing that led me to dealing with the tradeoffs of an AGM.

 

[stayalert]

I went with Slee's set up...IBS display thing in glovebox. Works great so far but I have';t really tested it, winching, fridge running, dead primary, etc. I do have great confidence it will work for my needs...

 

[Overland Tailor]

Not a 200, but I’ve run the National Luna kit upgraded with 200 amp Selenoid and it’s been great in the 80 with 2UZFE transplant.

I’ve run AGM since I’ve purchased the truck in 2013 as primary and secondary with no issues.. Just replaced the Primary battery after 5 years from a Diehard and now run dual interstate batteries.

The secondary is maintained on a smart charger every night as my total charge time after selenoid engagement is 15 minutes each way from work each day. The main is only mintained off the alternator and I’ve not had any issues..


Best,

John

 

[ekberger]

Many more experts than me on the dual battery setup, but I will share my experience for what it’s worth. I too run the National Luna setup as mentioned by @Overland Tailor above in my 80 series. I ran a Diehard in NL’s Portable PowerPack specifically to run my NL refrigerator. It worked fine but my battery did not last. Now that I have more experience with the setup in my 200 series some of my battery disappointment might have been due to overall battery maintenance.

In my 200 I have a Slee installed IBS system with the controller mounted on the floor next to the drivers seat as described by @Markuson and I am happy with this location. I have Interstate AGM batteries as both my primary and secondary. When I am traveling pretty much everyday or even for a couple day camp setup I have never experienced any issues. However, as far as battery maintenance goes when at home or when I have access on the road I will put my CTEK battery charger on separately giving both a full maintenance charge. I don’t find this to be any hassle and I think/hope that this will extend the life of my batteries.

 

[Itsky]

Great thread and very informative, thanks to all as I weigh similar considerations.

 

[KLF]

So I'm most of the way through the install, this has taken much more work than I anticipated, but then most projects do.

I am using the Slee 2nd tray, but I moved up to a group 34/78 battery, which is somewhat bigger than the 35 that the Slee tray was built for. It took a lot of fitting, measuring, tweaking, and general futzing to get it to fit to my satisfaction, but I finally bolted the battery and the Blue Sea ML-ACR in tonight for the final time. I had to do a lot of modifications to the Slee tray, if I were doing this project again I wou upld just get a generic tray and save the $$$. I am not using the Slee hold down bar, I made a custom one with mounting ears for the ML-ACR.

Started on the wiring tonight. Running 1/0 wire between the batteries, plus a bunch of other stuff. Adding a 6 circuit fuse block under the hood, and a 12 circuit block in the back of the truck which will be fed with a #4 wire from the aux battery.

I also decided to get a National Luna dual battery monitor, which I haven't decided where I will put it yet. Big kudos to the folks at Equipt, the first one they sent was defective, the jacket was cracked on the harness. I was prepared to just put some heat shrink on it and move on, but I sent them a note to let them know and they couldn't have been better, they insisted they send me another one, with a return label for the defective one.

Will post some photos when I get it all done.

 

[tirewater]

If I were to purchase now, I'd get the following:

Slee 2nd battery tray
Redarc BCDC dual input charger
Redarc BCDC mount: Stainless Steel Mounting Bracket | The Long Ranger

The Redarc BCDC is a battery charger, rather than a simple battery isolator. The dual input gives you the option to charge via solar when the vehicle is not running. It's more akin to the CTek charger than the Blue Sea ML-ACR. The benefit of a smart charger is that it can charge AGM, Lithium, Lead Acid batteries properly (correct input voltages).

Edit: You could likely hook up a cheap isolator/switch to the batteries in parallel as well, to tie the batteries together if needed (for a jump). Such as the Blue Sea 5511e https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Battery-Switches/dp/B000MMH1SK?th=1

That said, I still just use a portable battery to run my refrigerator. With limited solar power, it'll run the ARB for almost a week without being charged via the vehicle.

 

[tirewater]

On a side note, KLF did you look at the diesel 200 series second battery mount? It appears to just be a mirrored image of the driver side battery mount - using a similar top bracket as the driver side battery. A number of the Australian vendors sell a kit using those pieces. It does not have provisions for relocating the power steering and ballast that the Slee bracket offers.

 

[KLF]

On a side note, KLF did you look at the diesel 200 series second battery mount? It appears to just be a mirrored image of the driver side battery mount - using a similar top bracket as the driver side battery. A number of the Australian vendors sell a kit using those pieces. It does not have provisions for relocating the power steering and ballast that the Slee bracket offers.

No I didn't, and now I wish I had. I just automatically ordered the Slee tray. It's nice, but I really had to do a lot of modifications to it. My '15 LC doesn't have the DRL ballast, so I cut that whole side off the tray. Moving the P/S reservoir was tedious, I was able to use the hangar but made a spacer out of some SS tubing I had in my scrap pile. There is an unused mounting ear on the radiator that I had to cut off too. It's a very tight fit with that battery, but nothing is binding or in danger of rubbing from vibrations, I was very careful about that. Besides fabbing the top clamp, I made a strap that ties to the existing threaded hole in the front core, so the battery is very rigid in there, no movement at all.

I also tossed all the hardware that came with the Slee tray and replaced with SS.