When I researched the BCDC mount it was not offered in the US and shipping made it cost prohibitive
Dual battery setup questions
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When I researched the BCDC mount it was not offered in the US and shipping made it cost prohibitive
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I'm in the same boat as I've been running dual AGM's for about 4 years now and have the National Luna Dual Battery System. My issue is that
I can charge the 2nd (House) battery easily and do that every night with a NOCO Genius Charger, so thats always topped off, but the starter battery is only "Maintained" by the alternator and it never really reaches full AGM charge status as the alternator is not a "Charger"... Basically I'm decreasing useable voltage over time.
If I clamp the NOCO Charger on the main, the National Luna System will eventually see 13.1 V and engage the timer on the NL system and after 5 min engage the solenoid to the house battery. I don't feel this is optimal as its placing current through the solenoid constantly and Im now attempting to charge both batteries with a single charger.
I've looked at this all last week and the light finally went off.... I added a SB50 Anderson Connector between the negative cable from Main to House and the Negative wire from the main to the National Luna System. Now when I get home from work, I pop the hood and disconnect the SB50 which now isolates the 2 batteries and shuts off the NL system. I purchased a 2nd NOCO Genius charger and now charge both batteries every night so they get about 13 hours on the Genius Chargers. My only extra effort is disconnecting the Anderson SB50 Plug.
An additional benefit is that now I can also charge the Main and House on Solar when I'm out traveling as well... before I could only charge the house for reasons explained above.
So my main points -
- Any AGM needs placed on a CHARGER with AGM profile. The Alternator is a "maintainer" only,,, Not Charger.
- If you run Dual AGM's, you need to have the ability to charge them both on a CHARGER...
- Automotive batteries have a useable life span and will need replaced.. Our goal should be to maximize in-use time before replacement.
Now - I've been tossing around a dual profile main battery that has the ability to be used as a high voltage start battery with deep cycle characteristics. People are stating that these can be "Maintained" by the alternator, but I've seen no evidence-based information to support this...
Some will also argue that both batteries should be of the same type, but I've seen that the overall condition of the batteries is a more useful indicator.. Example - Both non-agm starter and agm house should be of the same age to work effectively.
At this time, I'm going to stay with Dual AGM's and place both on the NOCO Charger every night.
Lets ask one of the experts on this - Calling @george_tlc - What are your thoughts sir on Dual AGM charged as designed or a Standard Starter Battery or Hybrid Start Battery and AGM house?
John
Does the national Luna system not automatically link the batteries when it detects a charge? I have a Noco charger mounted next to my Ctek which is connected to my second battery and when I plug the Noco in, the IBS links my batteries and charges both.
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@Roy Park Yes, the National Luna will link both batteries after it sees 13.1V for 5 Minutes. It will also unlink after seeing less than 13.1V for several minutes.
The issue is that the AGM profile of the NOCO Charger will start a pulse charge / maintain after the battery is fully charged. This will pulse between 12.6 - 14.5V but due to the pulse, the NL System will unlink the batteries as its not seeing a constant voltage over 13.1
This is where I think the IBS is superior over the NL for its simplicity.
This is why I wanted to charge both independently. Another reason is that no 2 batteries are the same. Both batteries will require different charge profiles and if you are trying to charge both off the same AGM charger one of them will not get exactly what it needs. This works against my goal of trying to maximize in-use time for the battery by providing a microprocessor controlled charging profile that is battery specific.
Best regards,
John
The issue is that the AGM profile of the NOCO Charger will start a pulse charge / maintain after the battery is fully charged. This will pulse between 12.6 - 14.5V but due to the pulse, the NL System will unlink the batteries as its not seeing a constant voltage over 13.1
This is where I think the IBS is superior over the NL for its simplicity.
This is why I wanted to charge both independently. Another reason is that no 2 batteries are the same. Both batteries will require different charge profiles and if you are trying to charge both off the same AGM charger one of them will not get exactly what it needs. This works against my goal of trying to maximize in-use time for the battery by providing a microprocessor controlled charging profile that is battery specific.
Best regards,
John
Which Noco do you have?
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@Roy Park I have the G7200
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I don't see why this is a problem? Is this a bad idea? Are you thinking this overloads the charger?
So, once I get my big wiring project done, I want to add an on-board charger, probably buried behind the grille, with a waterproof "shore power" connector on the front bumper to make it easier to plug in, no opening the hood. This is the one I was looking at:
NOCO - 2-Bank 8A On-Board Battery Charger - GENM2
Thought is when I want to go to shore power to top off the batteries, flip the switch on the dash for the ML-ACR to keep the batteries isolated, then plug in the dual charger, so it can monitor each battery separately.
I have the 1 bank 10 amp version of that charger
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I don't see why this is a problem? Is this a bad idea? Are you thinking this overloads the charger?
So, once I get my big wiring project done, I want to add an on-board charger, probably buried behind the grille, with a waterproof "shore power" connector on the front bumper to make it easier to plug in, no opening the hood. This is the one I was looking at:
NOCO - 2-Bank 8A On-Board Battery Charger - GENM2
Thought is when I want to go to shore power to top off the batteries, flip the switch on the dash for the ML-ACR to keep the batteries isolated, then plug in the dual charger, so it can monitor each battery separately.
@KLF Thats a nice... No i don't think its hard on the, charger but I want both batteries to be controlled individually as they will never require exactly the same charge profile.
Hope that helps -
J
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@Roy Park @KLF I'm liking the dual bank, but I don't think 4A / bank would be enough unless you can let it charge for extended periods. Low and slow is always best, but I have to balance it as mine is a daily driver and I want it to reach a full charge before I need to head out again.
Cheers -
John
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@KLF this is what I have for mine. I'll be adding another one for the starter battery on the drivers side.
My NOCO's have corresponding Anderson SB50 ends as well as my Solar charging system.
My NOCO's have corresponding Anderson SB50 ends as well as my Solar charging system.
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I'm happy with my simple/dumb dual battery system.
Totally isolated while alternator is not putting out charge (so, either engine is off or the alternator is knackered). Solenoid activates to connect the 2 batteries 100% only while the alternator is putting out charge.
Marine switch that allows me to route main or aux or both or none to the winch. This has the benefit that in the both position the two batteries are in parallel for either a self jump start or if camped and wanting to push solar into both of them.
I've never worried about parallel charged batteries being of different vintage or type. Batteries are constant voltage charged (with current limit), so not like an old battery in parallel with a new battery is going to have any effect on charging.
If I have a vehicle sitting for a period of time (weeks or more), then I put a smart maintainer/charger on each one and leave them isolated (which in my case just means a) engine is off and b) marine switch is off; which is its normal mode).
I've been using this dumb system for near on 2 decades and I haven't been confused or had to second guess it yet
Both on my 80 and my oz patrol.
cheers,
george.
Totally isolated while alternator is not putting out charge (so, either engine is off or the alternator is knackered). Solenoid activates to connect the 2 batteries 100% only while the alternator is putting out charge.
Marine switch that allows me to route main or aux or both or none to the winch. This has the benefit that in the both position the two batteries are in parallel for either a self jump start or if camped and wanting to push solar into both of them.
I've never worried about parallel charged batteries being of different vintage or type. Batteries are constant voltage charged (with current limit), so not like an old battery in parallel with a new battery is going to have any effect on charging.
If I have a vehicle sitting for a period of time (weeks or more), then I put a smart maintainer/charger on each one and leave them isolated (which in my case just means a) engine is off and b) marine switch is off; which is its normal mode).
I've been using this dumb system for near on 2 decades and I haven't been confused or had to second guess it yet
Both on my 80 and my oz patrol.cheers,
george.
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I'm happy with my simple/dumb dual battery system.
Totally isolated while alternator is not putting out charge (so, either engine is off or the alternator is knackered). Solenoid activates to connect the 2 batteries 100% only while the alternator is putting out charge.
Marine switch that allows me to route main or aux or both or none to the winch. This has the benefit that in the both position the two batteries are in parallel for either a self jump start or if camped and wanting to push solar into both of them.
I've never worried about parallel charged batteries being of different vintage or type. Batteries are constant voltage charged (with current limit), so not like an old battery in parallel with a new battery is going to have any effect on charging.
If I have a vehicle sitting for a period of time (weeks or more), then I put a smart maintainer/charger on each one and leave them isolated (which in my case just means a) engine is off and b) marine switch is off; which is its normal mode).
I've been using this dumb system for near on 2 decades and I haven't been confused or had to second guess it yet
cheers,
george.
@george_tlc
George - Thanks so much for sharing the information. Appreciate the clarification on different vintage batteries in a dual setup. That helps in the decision making process. Looks like I've taken a smart dual system and made it a more useable dumb system by having the ability to disconnect / isolate the batteries... If I had to do it over I would go to a very basic setup like yours.. Seems too simple, but Works..
Appreciate the knowledge.
Cheers -
John
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They also have a dual that can do 10A per side, but it's $60 more.
I was thinking of something like this for the shore power connection:
https://www.amazon.com/MICTUNING-13...on-Water-resistant/dp/B079M6BCW9/?tag=ihco-20
Having the charger(s) on-board means I can charge anywhere, if I can get to 120V. Plus, if I accidentally back out of the garage with the cord still attached, it should be able to pop off with no damage. I suppose you could go overboard and use the automatic disconnect jobs they use on fire trucks, but that's a little extreme.
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Yep - That would be nice to charge at campgrounds if needed. I wanted the Anderson to do double duty so I could solar charge as well, but I've seen people using the shore power option with great results.
@Mogwai agree.... I have the fridge running in the truck during fall and winter camping season and have the house battery charging off the NOCO and it keeps the battery topped. I have an ARB 50qt, but it does have the insulated cover so that helps keep it cool and not cycle so much that the NOCO can't keep up.
If I were to keep the fridge onboard full time, a dedicated shore power connection would be installed in short order.
Cheers
Additionally since they probably don't have the radar cruise control, that bracket won't work if your rig happens to have it (2013-up I think). It puts the BCDC where the Radar antenna is.
I just fabbed up a bracket this afternoon that looks promising and "similar"
I just fabbed up a bracket this afternoon that looks promising and "similar"
That’s great — let’s see it. I like the placement of the BCDC in a cooler location, but how much does it block radiator when mounted there?
I’m not too worried about it blocking the radiator at this point, but I’m sure you could just as easily mount it sideways or endways if you wanted. There’s a lot of room forward of the radiator. Teaser pics:
If we can slow-roll wheel through 110 degree Moab all day long with no speed-wind into the radiator (and we do), it’ll handle that bracket without even blinking.