Driver Side Steering Tough - Redhead Box and new OEM Pump

[dtrain]

Hey all!

Hoping someone has also had this issue or has some guidance.

‘96 Toyota Landcruiser with the upgraded Redhead steering box (I’m on 37s and Js).

Got it back, installed it per instruction, and also got a brand new OEM steering pump.

What I am experiencing….
When I turn all the way passenger (the key being all the way… just part way and it does not happen).. like when reversing out of a parking spot… I will then shift into drive and then start to turn driver… it will be fine for a second and then hard to turn… almost like the pump can’t keep up or something (but it’s a brand new OEM pump). I can sometimes give the wheel a quick turn passenger and it will then feel like real power steering and I think idling up the RPMs helps as well.

To me, it seems like an air bubble but bled this multiple times and tried to work the air out.

Have any of had a similar issue? Could I have installed the power steering pump incorrectly?

Getting ready for Rubithon and would love to have this annoyance solved but it’s not a show stopper.

Yes, I have reached out to redhead but they are claiming tires and left which I do not agree with.

 

[Fj80oregon]

How did you bleed the air out?

 

[Shipwreck]

Sure sounds like air in the system to me also. Did you jack up the front end while rotating the steering when you were bleeding the air? Removing the resistance from the tires on the ground helps.
Another thing to check: make sure that the steering box and steering wheel were centered during installation. If you notice this issue when maxing out the steering in one direction but not the other, I wonder if you are bottoming out the worm gear in the box before you hit the steering stops on the axle housing.

 

[dtrain]

How did you bleed the air out?

I did it two ways but they are very similar… followed the instructions in the attached pic (from redhead)

And once I drove it for a little while … just raised the front end and went lock to lock 20 times at a decent speed… let it sit over night to let the fluid cool… then again for 20…. Did this 3 days in a row

 

[dtrain]

Sure sounds like air in the system to me also. Did you jack up the front end while rotating the steering when you were bleeding the air? Removing the resistance from the tires on the ground helps.
Another thing to check: make sure that the steering box and steering wheel were centered during installation. If you notice this issue when maxing out the steering in one direction but not the other, I wonder if you are bottoming out the worm gear in the box before you hit the steering stops on the axle housing.

I agree with your comment… sure feels like a bubble bc it does go away.

That’s a great point about bottoming out the work gear… as a test - do you think I should adjust the steering stop to try and test the theory?

 

[BILT4ME]

I agree with your comment… sure feels like a bubble bc it does go away.

That’s a great point about bottoming out the work gear… as a test - do you think I should adjust the steering stop to try and test the theory?

Set front axle on jack stands.
Turn steering wheel all the way to one side. Slowly rotate all the way to the other side, counting the number of turns.
Divide that number by two and turn the steering wheel back towards center until you reach that number, regardless of the actual position of the steering wheel. This will give you true center on the gear.

It would also be advisable to check the relationship of the steering stop on each side of the axle at the knuckle to make sure you are actually stopped there and not being stopped by gear limitations inside the gearbox.

 

[lelandEOD]

My Redhead rebuilt pump only lasted 6 months before it started failing. My symptoms were it lost power assist only moving right to left when the steering past the centerline. Ultimately, a buddy and I took it apart and found the piston bore and piston deeply scored. We decided it wasn't rebuildable so I scrounged up a spare box and we used a 'Mud tutorial to rebuild it ourselves.

I don't know what caused the Redhead box to fail. They were pleasant enough to talk to when I called for help and they did offer to take a look at it again. But by that point I saw another Redhead box puke itself on the Rubithon wagon run last fall and I decided to go a different route.

Here's my new Blackhead rebuilt box.

 

[dtrain]

Set front axle on jack stands.
Turn steering wheel all the way to one side. Slowly rotate all the way to the other side, counting the number of turns.
Divide that number by two and turn the steering wheel back towards center until you reach that number, regardless of the actual position of the steering wheel. This will give you true center on the gear.

It would also be advisable to check the relationship of the steering stop on each side of the axle at the knuckle to make sure you are actually stopped there and not being stopped by gear limitations inside the gearbox.

Thanks man… this will be my weekend thing to do for sure.

 

[dtrain]

My Redhead rebuilt pump only lasted 6 months before it started failing. My symptoms were it lost power assist only moving right to left when the steering past the centerline. Ultimately, a buddy and I took it apart and found the piston bore and piston deeply scored. We decided it wasn't rebuildable so I scrounged up a spare box and we used a 'Mud tutorial to rebuild it ourselves.

I don't know what caused the Redhead box to fail. They were pleasant enough to talk to when I called for help and they did offer to take a look at it again. But by that point I saw another Redhead box puke itself on the Rubithon wagon run last fall and I decided to go a different route.

Here's my new Blackhead rebuilt box.

View attachment 3649187

Thanks for the info. I saw the rebuild thread and was going to do it myself.

 

[dtrain]

@BILT4ME and @Shipwreck - counted the steering wheel rotations using tape on the wheel. Seems to be pretty spot on.

But… my steering stops were out of spec! Hoping this was causing the issue.

Here is what did… feedback is always appreciated!

I had the front end jacked up so adjusted them like this - with truck off, turned all the way passenger, adjusted steering stop all the way to contact the stop on the axle (used a piece of paper to know when it was snug), then backed the steering off and a bit so it would not bottom out steering box (used a shim - oem Toyota filter box lid folded over twice )

Repeat same on driver side.

Then, I did an engine off bleeding and an engine on bleeding. (According to that image I uploaded….. basically no weight on the front end)

I have a few more little things to do (not steering related) before I test drive but will be sure to report back.

Thanks guys!

 

[Shipwreck]

Glad you're getting it worked out.
Hope to see you in the Springs!

 

[dtrain]

So far so good. That lag is gone…. Yeww! Thanks guys. Appreciate the help!

@Shipwreck see ya at the springs! I’m headed in on the Wed wagon run.

 

[UTREDROK]

So… has the bleeding fixed the binding problem?
I’ve had exact same issue on a Redhead that I installed last summer. The binding occurs when coming back to center from a full passenger side turn. Takes significant force to break through it to get to center. Occurs almost every time over past 14 months. Quite scary when navigating parking lots and short turn situations. The lock bolt on the adjustment screw has worked loose 3 times, causing loss of fluid, and possibly loss of center the gear.
So I’ve tinkered, adjusted, refilled, tightened, really tightened, and still have the binding issue.
This is the first I’ve heard of an air bubble causing a binding something like this…. I will re-bleed the system to see if there is a bubble that didn’t work itself out over the last year.

 

[dtrain]

So… has the bleeding fixed the binding problem?
I’ve had exact same issue on a Redhead that I installed last summer. The binding occurs when coming back to center from a full passenger side turn. Takes significant force to break through it to get to center. Occurs almost every time over past 14 months. Quite scary when navigating parking lots and short turn situations. The lock bolt on the adjustment screw has worked loose 3 times, causing loss of fluid, and possibly loss of center the gear.
So I’ve tinkered, adjusted, refilled, tightened, really tightened, and still have the binding issue.
This is the first I’ve heard of an air bubble causing a binding something like this…. I will re-bleed the system to see if there is a bubble that didn’t work itself out over the last year.

I am still having the same issue like you and I have both described. It’s only when turning back one direction and, so far, only at low to no speed.

Maybe a volume issue?
When it happens… a very slight move of the steering wheel to the passenger side (and by slight it’s about a 1/2 inch) seems to “release” something inside the box and the power steering just kicks in like nothing was wrong. I see why their tech says air bubble but I have bled my fair share of systems and followed their instructions to the letter multiple times as well as a handful of other ways to do it. Any air bubble should have released by now and not to mention I am getting the same result every time.

Again… I am thinking volume here… there have been times and I am trying to “test” this when it happens… but when I up the rpm’s it seems to help as well.

All of that said, this is why I have the idea maybe it’s a volume issue. They said they hog these things out and am wondering if a brand new OEM Toyota pump is not up to the task of pushing the volume of fluid the box needs after modification.

Here are my questions for the Tech over there that has not had the desire to speak with me directly in the past:
- Would an air bubble be side specific like this based on how the 80 box is built?
- Is it the power steering fluid I am using? Maybe it’s the wrong viscosity? Can you tell me the specs I should use? (FYI, I’m using Lucas ATF semi-synthetic standard viscosity meets or exceeds dex lll, mercon V and ATF +4)
- Are they testing at a pressure that is greater than what a stock 80 series OEM pump can produce and maybe this is why they can’t replicate the issue?
- Is the ball getting stuck or wedged based on some of the work they did?

My box has been on, off, sent back, fixed, back on, off, back on… and bled more times than I have ever wanted to think about (at initial setup and post setup attempts to bleed).

Not sure what to do that this point but I am going yo try reaching out again. Maybe 80s are just not a big enough market for them to deal with issues and troubleshoot?

 

[lelandEOD]

I bet it dozen donuts both you guys have a deep gouge in the piston bore of your boxes.

 

[dtrain]

I bet it dozen donuts both you guys have a deep gouge in the piston bore of your boxes.

tell me more pls

Is that something that would happen during the mod process? Or would that be something that happened before and I/we got a bad core?

 

[lelandEOD]

I don't know but the symptoms you were describing are exactly what I experienced as well. A couple of my buddies who looked at it had a theory that Redhead might've not cleaned out all the swarth from the box when they drilled and tapped it for the Hydro assist. But that's just a guess.

 

[ajax1]

Are the knuckles smooth with steering disconnected maybe bad trunion bearing?

If I was both of you as hard as it is I would toss those boxes and buy a new oem one and move on. I would bet as said up top your bore is gouged or something. If it is should have been caught by redhead

 

[dtrain]

All brand new parts up front but a good thought.

My box has all the strength upgrades I wanted and it would be a bummer to give that up … but this issue is making me move in the direction of giving up

 

[lelandEOD]

I was in the

All brand new parts up front but a good thought.

My box has all the strength upgrades I wanted and it would be a bummer to give that up … but this issue is making me move in the direction of giving up

I was in the same predicament. I spent the money on the 105 sector shaft upgrade parts and didn't want to lose them and also didn't really want to send the box back to RedHead at that point. I found another donor box, spend $100 on a rebuild kit, and used the mud DIY rebuild tutorial to reseal the new box myself. I had a couple 'cruiser buddies stand over my shoulder and offer fresh curse words and epithets needed for getting every last recirculating ball back in the power head. We swapped the 105 sector shaft into the replacement box too. That's how I found the gouges in the bore that [I believe] RedHead either overlooked or caused.

If you did hop for a new box, it is not terribly hard to pull the top cover to replace just the sector shaft (most of the work is in replacing the bearings and seals and the cursed recirculating balls). I think you could swap the sector shaft pretty easily and not touch anything else if you are careful with the seals.